Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

by Hapless_Hans Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:33 pm

Ganso wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:while that is true, I'd point out that it wasn't the performances up to November that killed Moyes, it was what happened from December to February.
Then will also be the more appropriate time to compare Moyes and van Gaal.

As for stick, van Gaal already got much more stick in the English media (maybe not from fans) than Moyes did up until almost the very end.

wut

english media destroyed moyes. I only read the Daily Fail, but I rarely see them throwing shit specifically at van Gaal.

About analyzing only results, it's not just that. Moyes didn't have the same level of quality this team has. He was stuck with the likes of Valencia, Welbeck, Cleverley etc. You just can't expect that team to play great football, but when you invest so much and have players like Falcao, Di Maria and all the other players he bought, then you have to expect at least a CL spot.

that depends what timeframe you're talking.
I'd dare you to show me any article in the media (not fan forums) directly critizising Moyes work, before November.
I'm talking Telegraph, Guardian, Mirror, Mail etc, not Red and B-Mac on here. (That those know better than journalists is a given Proud

)

Where as I can show you quite a few directly critizising van Gaal, his subs, system, etc, as soon as match day 2.

In hindsight it seems like Moysie was hard done by, because shit hit the fan early this year, but in the beginning it was all quiet, noone dared to question the choice of SAF.

by B-Mac Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:36 pm

Moyes got a free ride from the media until after January lol

he was Fergies pick and a British manager nobody was going after him....nobody even hinted at him losing his job until it was almost certain we weren't getting into top 4 around march

Van Gaal isn't getting much stick right now because for the most part we haven't had a healthy squad at all this year, and expectations were lower coming into this season then last year after winning the title the season before.

by Hapless_Hans Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:36 pm

besides, there's a lot of sources saying Moyes didn't spend as much not because he wasn't allowed to, but because he couldn't decide/had his priorities wrong.

Deals with Thiago, de Rossi, some say Matic were lined up or possible, we all remember the Herrera farce.

Don't tell me if Moysie had said "I WANT HERRERA NOW", the board had said "but his clause is 36m, we only give you 32m"
Don't tell me Thiago for 20m €, or de Rossi for 15m, or Strootman, would have been too expensive and vetoed.
That's a joke.

Fact is with Fellaini and Mata he bought two players for 80m *bleep* € who both more or less occupy the same position where he already had Kagawa and Rooney, who he at the very same time decided to make undroppable with a new 300k£ p/w contract. That's not a problem of missing funds, that much should be clear.

by B-Mac Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:44 pm

i would say the transfer window blame was equally put on Woodward and Moyes....lots of us were worried about Woodward before this summer, but after this summer and the deals we got done I think now most of it can be put on Moyes ineptness.

by Mr Nick09 Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:53 pm

what deal have you done this summer that was impressive? looooool

letting Kroos go to madrid because you didt want him anymore?

by B-Mac Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:59 pm

bringing players in that actually help the squad improve?

Shaw has been great since getting fit, huge improvement defensively over Evra who was a complete liability last season

Di Maria has been great when played in midfield not on wing which has been because of injuries

Herrera has done well and is a huge improvement over Cleverley, Fletcher

Rojo has been ok, only one of our CBs who is playing consistently these days

Falcao is still up in the air because he hasn't been fit, but in his limited minutes he has looked good

and who confirmed Kroos as a target?

funny how Dailymail and Mirror suddenly become reliable sources when convenient for people to take the piss

by Hapless_Hans Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:12 pm

just a few examples, all within the first 5 games of the season:

Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal needs to get back to basics after erratic start in charge at Old Trafford
It is all very well having a grand coaching 'philosophy' but first you have to stop the ball going in your own net -
[..]
With the disparity between the Leicester and QPR games comes the end of Van Gaal’s honeymoon. Surely it must be his job now to come down from the philosophical Olympus and coach this United into shape – starting with the defence.
[..]
In this abundance of roles Van Gaal has still to find the ideal one. He has switched from mode to mode according to circumstance. But he cannot escape the results: the fewest points in the club’s Premier League history, and the lowest ever position after five games. The defeat at Leicester was an implosion on a scale that would leave any coach embarrassed, never mind a former master of Barcelona and Bayern Munich.
[..]
For reasons that are hard to fathom, Van Gaal seems to have convinced himself that the “philosophy” or grand plan would bring Jonny Evans, Phil Jones and the rest up to the requisite level. But the combinations keep changing and the stability is not there.
[..]
only Van Gaal can solve this, by displaying his talent for the thing he says he was born to do: coaching, not as a “philosophy” but an organisational process to stop the ball going in the net. His introduction to English pinball is over. United need him to grab the controls.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/managers/louis-van-gaal/11117307/Manchester-United-manager-Louis-van-Gaal-needs-to-get-back-to-basics-after-erratic-start-in-charge-at-Old-Trafford.html (end of September)

Manchester United's Van Gaal cannot be allowed off the hook for dismal Burnley draw
The clock is already ticking on the Reds' new manager and the spotlight will be harsher once the signings are all done and the fat trimmed, writes Andy Dunn

A stellar reputation takes a long time to build… and a short time to dismantle.
And the moments are fast arriving when Louis van Gaal will not have the shortcomings of his playing staff as a shield from scorn.

There is no letting Van Gaal off the hook for Saturday's 0-0 at Burnley - the latest dismal instalment of the fall from the Ferguson years.

Sure, a core of players exists at Old Trafford that is not top-four standard, probably not top half of the table standard.

But if Van Gaal continues to send out those individuals - and his more talented ones - in a system with which they are painfully uncomfortable, then there will be more results like this against inevitable strugglers such as Burnley.
And there will certainly be no title, no Champions League place, no trophies.

Of course, Van Gaal needed money and time. Well, he’s had the money, so the clock starts ticking now.
Elite management is a brutal environment. David Moyes discovered that.

When the signings are done, the fat trimmed and the international break is over, Van Gaal will step back into a harsher spotlight.

He wants three months, six months, a year, before he is judged. There will be no chance of that.

Not if he continues to persuade increasingly dreadful performances from his teams.

Phil Jones - in his own cavalier manner - was effective, but so many of this United side have the harrowed look of employees given either too much instruction or too little.

In play, they get none at all - Van Gaal’s immovability on the bench has almost become an affectation.

He was still there, gathering his notes, when half the pitch had emptied towards the showers.

We all know that touchline gesticulations are worthless, but when there was a lengthy break - for the problem that cut short Angel Di Maria’s decent debut - the United players drifted towards the dug-out… to be met only by a nonplussed-looking Ryan Giggs.

Van Gaal remained deep in the recess, plotting the masterstroke of replacing Di Maria with Anderson.

[..]
But for all the talk of inheriting a squad that was not fit for purpose, for all the talk of being a coach who takes a while to impose his ideas on a club, Van Gaal SHOULD have been able to garner more than two points from league games against Swansea, Sunderland and Burnley.

Rebuilding or not. Changing the philosophy or not.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/big-match-verdict-manchester-uniteds-4135712 (after the THIRD GAME)

Van Gaal has failed to sufficiently strengthen his defence, while turning United into football's version of the Harlem Globetrotters with the acquisition of marquee signings like Angel Di Maria and Radamel Falcao.

Had Van Gaal picked a more balanced side, sacrificing one of his 'Gaalacticos' for a more defensive-minded player, perhaps United would not have suffered such a crushing defeat.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/man-uniteds-leicester-loss-proof-4304809 (end of September)

Five reasons why Louis van Gaal is a worse Manchester United manager than David Moyes

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/five-reason-why-louis-van-gaal-is-a-worse-manchester-united-manager-than-david-moyes-9748570.html (22nd September)

Please, show me an article from last September with the headline "Five reasons why David Moyes is a worse Manchester United manager than Sir Alex Ferguson" Laughing

That's unthinkable.

by Mr Nick09 Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:21 pm

B-Mac wrote:bringing players in that actually help the squad improve?

Shaw has been great since getting fit, huge improvement defensively over Evra who was a complete liability last season

Di Maria has been great when played in midfield not on wing which has been because of injuries

Herrera has done well and is a huge improvement over Cleverley, Fletcher

Rojo has been ok, only one of our CBs who is playing consistently these days

Falcao is still up in the air because he hasn't been fit, but in his limited minutes he has looked good

and who confirmed Kroos as a target?

funny how Dailymail and Mirror suddenly become reliable sources when convenient for people to take the piss

all you did on the transfer market was splashing money to sign players. How that somehow discredit Woodward as being a terrible sporting director and puts all the blame of the previous season on Moyes, i don't know...

by Hapless_Hans Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:37 pm

As for the Daily Mail, here's what they're running with now Laughing

Louis van Gaal once shouted at a player so fiercely his dentures came out and treats his wife 'disgracefully' when he's had a drink, a book on Manchester United boss claims

A new biography of Louis van Gaal promises to ‘journey into the sinister recesses’ of the Manchester United manager’s character and, boy, does it do just that.

Extracts published on Tuesday detail him treating his second wife Truus in a shocking and humiliating manner brought on by drink, a former player describing the moment Van Gaal shouted at him so fiercely the boss's dentures fell out and how the Dutchman had a string of serious car accidents brought on by the exhaustion of being a full-time PE teacher and a semi-professional footballer.

It is the account of his relationship with Truus, who he married in 2008, which are most chilling.

‘The way he treats Truus in company is ungentlemanly and sometimes downright disgraceful,’ claims author Hugo Borst in O, Louis: In Search Of Louis van Gaal, serialised in The Times.

‘In the company of friends and acquaintances, Louis has made comments that in nine out of 10 marriages would have been grounds for divorce. People who have lunched or dined with Louis say alcohol does not have a favourable effect on him.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2829799/Louis-van-Gaal-treats-wife-disgracefully-drink-book-Manchester-United-boss-claims.html

by M99 Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:37 pm

RED wrote:He's already getting stick from die hard Sociedad fan Ander Tattero

Spoiler:

by B-Mac Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:51 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
B-Mac wrote:bringing players in that actually help the squad improve?

Shaw has been great since getting fit, huge improvement defensively over Evra who was a complete liability last season

Di Maria has been great when played in midfield not on wing which has been because of injuries

Herrera has done well and is a huge improvement over Cleverley, Fletcher

Rojo has been ok, only one of our CBs who is playing consistently these days

Falcao is still up in the air because he hasn't been fit, but in his limited minutes he has looked good

and who confirmed Kroos as a target?

funny how Dailymail and Mirror suddenly become reliable sources when convenient for people to take the piss
all you did on the transfer market was splashing money to sign players. How that somehow discredit Woodward as being a terrible sporting director and puts all the blame of the previous season on Moyes, i don't know...

so why was Woodward able to pull off multiple deals under van gaal but could barely get fellaini in under Moyes?

because Van Gaal had targets and let it be known which players he wanted...where as moyes was just trying to bring in a big name like Bale or Ronaldo aka unrealistic targets and fapping over Fabregas after he said he wasn't leaving multiple times, rather then taking a look at the squad and addressing needs in a ageing defence and SHIT midfield

by Mr Nick09 Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:59 pm

because woodward had his head up his arse, refused to make sensibles transfers for the club because he was still thinking back then that the momentous line up of scrubs you had was enough to carry you in the top 4... we all know how that worked out.

And again i must insist, Woodward didn't "pull off" any deal lol, he put lots of cash on the table and transfers happen

by B-Mac Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:40 pm

so like Madrid? lol

by futbol Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:50 pm

Yanited is like Barca. Which shouldn't surprise anyone as Zubi and Woodward are competing head on head in the battle for most inept sporting director of all time d'Or. In pictures:

David Moyes is a Football Genius - Page 25 B1ca2TBIMAAJ7PT

David Moyes is a Football Genius - Page 25 B1ca2TBIMAAJ7PT

With Rooney in central midfield. How you end up like that after spending 3 trillions only Woody's and Zubi's masterminds can understand.

by M99 Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:04 am

Leave him alone ffs Sad

http://gfycat.com/CrazySlimyBantamrooster

by Kick Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:36 am

Moysie playing invisible basketball Proud

by Nishankly Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:40 am

Lol Kick.

Can someone explain the incident?

by El Gunner Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:06 am

Kick wrote:Moysie playing invisible basketball

lmao

Yeah, like Nishy, what happened?

by Pip Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:50 am

Complaining about the offside that was given against Depor. He was sent to the stands for his outburst.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:45 pm

why is he complaining and shouting to Moysie about a referee decision?

by Doc Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:44 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:why is he complaining and shouting to Moysie about a referee decision?

Particularly when he doesn't understand a spick of Spanish. Worse if Deportivo manager was speaking in Galician.

by RealGunner Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:57 pm

probably trying to intimidate Moyes

Thankfully Moyes was born in the hard hitting streets of Glasgow

by MJ Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:49 pm

Nishy wrote:Lol Kick.

Can someone explain the incident?

I actually got a translated transcript of the event:

Spoiler:

by RealGunner Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:51 pm

lmfao

by Pip Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:46 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:why is he complaining and shouting to Moysie about a referee decision?

Finally got a hold of Cabellud. He told me that the referee made a poor decision and that Moyes kicked the ball in his direction which upset him.

Hope this helps.

by B-Mac Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:19 am

MJ wrote:
Nishy wrote:Lol Kick.

Can someone explain the incident?

I actually got a translated transcript of the event:

Spoiler:

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