La Liga Round 16: FC Barcelona vs Atletico Madrid

Fools who dont know any better.

I think it is safe to say Pique is more or less back.

It is a slight problem that our forwards arent scoring goals.

The worry thing was days like today where they didnt even look like scoring. Alexis had a pretty good 2nd half so im happy with that, Pedro I didnt see him.

No shame in having trouble with Falcao imo, he is that damn good.

He needs service to do anything, but as long as he gets something, he is going be a problem

Busquets: "Goal? I saw players coming, knew they'd throw themselves, so controlled the ball and waited for them to pass by. Worked out fine"

Bussi, one of the biggest brains in football today

Does anyone know why the Camp Nou gave Pedro an ovation as he was leaving? Completely undeserved.

It is quite a concern that Barcelona's wingers have been going through a poor goalscoring form. I think Barça need a proper 'futsal-esque' dribbler on the wings, not the sort of winger who relies on pace. As most teams play with 8+ players behind the ball, there simply isn't enough space for anyone pacey to exploit. You need someone who can work in tight spaces.

I think it was more for Villa coming on.

They were also shouting Villa when he was warming up.

danyjr wrote:It is quite a concern that Barcelona's wingers have been going through a poor goalscoring form. I think Barça need a proper 'futsal-esque' dribbler on the wings, not the sort of winger who relies on pace. As most teams play with 8+ players behind the ball, there simply isn't enough space for anyone pacey to exploit. You need someone who can work in tight spaces.

I kind of a agree, especially because we have pace anyway with Tello.

However, I think above all we need someone who can also finish and isnt afraid to turn down a Messi pass for a shot on goal.

Thought Alexis improved throughout the game. Did some nice tight dribbles and linked up well occasionally though he still was a worry. Pedro was literally invisible and Villa should have gone on earlier...
Messi pretty much woke up in second half and looked a threat...
Our defenders are slow and well Falcao on a couple of occasions got past our defence with ease through sheer pace. Pique and Busquests could not keep up with him and Puyol always had to go away from his position just to stop him creating any scoring chance...

Villa can score if he starts, he's proven this with his tally so far of being a sub and cup player, now why he doesn't play in the league is beyond me I understand Sanchez and Pedro have more pace and energy to track back but we gotta stop depending on Messi, and not every game where we see Adriano score a beauty or Sergio even shooting lol.

To be honest Busquets did a mistake on the goal. He should have stood in Falcao's way knowing he is slower than the Colombian but instead he decided to tackle him first time. Made it too easy for El Tigre.

danyjr wrote:To be honest Busquets did a mistake on the goal. He should have stood in Falcao's way knowing he is slower than the Colombian but instead he decided to tackle him first time. Made it too easy for El Tigre.

I agree; sometimes a "professional foul" is necessary. Just don't overdo it to injure the player. But just enough so that the foul is called.

Gotta make sure we stand infront of Falcao than on the back foot as we know he is just gonna zipp past us with ease...

Great pressing in this game. Haven't seen this kind of intensity in a while. Atletico got dominated, as usual.

This game summed up for me why Barcelona won't win the Champions League. Pedro and Sanchez had 0 shots in the whole game. Messi was lost inbetween 2 banks of 4 and his only contribution in the first half was the giveaway which led to Falcao's goal (pretty much standard for him nowadays in big games). Falcao could have had a hattrick in the first 30 minutes. Paper over the cracks by a wondergoal from a backup fullback and a Busquets goal (!!!) after a corner kick. The false 9 system with 2 Ji-Sung Parks on the wings is figured out by now and although the scoreline doesn't reflect it, Atletico gave a good blueprint how to approach a game against Barcelona.

futbol wrote:This game summed up for me why Barcelona won't win the Champions League. Pedro and Sanchez had 0 shots in the whole game. Messi was lost inbetween 2 banks of 4 and his only contribution in the first half was the giveaway which led to Falcao's goal (pretty much standard for him nowadays in big games). Falcao could have had a hattrick in the first 30 minutes. Paper over the cracks by a wondergoal from a backup fullback and a Busquets goal (!!!) after a corner kick. The false 9 system with 2 Ji-Sung Parks on the wings is figured out by now and although the scoreline doesn't reflect it, Atletico gave a good blueprint how to approach a game against Barcelona.

We weren't good in the first half because we didn't attack well. Not because our system is flawed or easily stoppable if they put two lines of four.

What we did wrong? Well, mainly we were attacking like this (X is Barça player O is Atletico Player):

---------X------------X--------------X
X------------X-----------------------X
-------X------O---------O--------X-------
--X---O---------O-------O-----------O--
------O----------O------O-------------O--X

We didn't put absolutely no one in between atletico lines and Messi dropped deep to get the ball next to Sergio Busquets. When you attack like this, only moving the ball from left to right without no one in between the lines and never moving the ball between their formation it's extremely easy to defend, only moving the whole team as a unit from left to right.

After their goal, we started attacking better, and although Adriano's goal was an individual genial move, he received the ball in a better position that we had managed until then precisely because we had players between the lines that distorted atletico's formation and allowed gaps on the right flank.

Once there are players between their lines and you move the ball to them, the opposition formation loses it's shape and it's harder to defend.
Plus, it's much better to lose the ball between atleticos line's than to lose it to Atleticos AM as it happened during the first 30 minutes.

When this was solved, we were on our way to win the match. See the difference:


---------X------------X-----------X
X--------------X----------------------X
-------------O--------O-------------
-----O---X-----O---X----O----X------O--
------O----------O------O----X----O--

Now Atletico Madrid has to compress their formation to the center to guard those in between the lines players, especially if you play the ball to them (even if they just pass it back afterwards). This will open important spaces in the flans and after a switch of play (adriano's goal) there will be space enough to start an attacking move either on the flank or even in the middle.

Also, defenders and DM contribute in attack too. There's no reason to only value goals scored by our forwards or our wingers. In our team everyone attacks and everyone defends, and our defenders and DM have scored 10 goals so far in the league, almost the same as Granada. So, maybe in the CL our wingers won't score, but our defenders and midfielders might do it.
So far, we are winning and outscoring everyone and for a good reason, we are an attacking machine.

futbol wrote:This game summed up for me why Barcelona won't win the Champions League. Pedro and Sanchez had 0 shots in the whole game. Messi was lost inbetween 2 banks of 4 and his only contribution in the first half was the giveaway which led to Falcao's goal (pretty much standard for him nowadays in big games). Falcao could have had a hattrick in the first 30 minutes. Paper over the cracks by a wondergoal from a backup fullback and a Busquets goal (!!!) after a corner kick. The false 9 system with 2 Ji-Sung Parks on the wings is figured out by now and although the scoreline doesn't reflect it, Atletico gave a good blueprint how to approach a game against Barcelona.

Dude CL will not start now I think no one can predict if our wingers will step up or not. Almost every team plays us the way A.M. played - on a counter, they just have a great fast striker who is more effective than the rest of the teams. Don't forget Cesc will be back, and Iniesta is playing much better on the wing when overlapping with Alba, so already we have options about that. Also, what is wrong if our fullbacks score so much? Does that make the goals invalid?

Yes, Barcelona played "infront" of Atletico instead of inbetween the lines (Xavi played particularly deep yesterday). Spain basically plays like this in every tournament. It's part of the system and a deliberate tactic against strong counterattacking sides like Atletico to prevent losing the ball in the centre of the park. One of the main reasons why Iniesta, a dribbler, is being pushed out wide for Spain and now even Barcelona. A team playing a ridiculous high line like Barcelona can't afford to lose the ball in the middle of the pitch constantly when basically every counterattack will result in a goal. So crowding the middle and pressing high up the pitch as Atletico did, sandwiching Messi with 7 defensive players surrounding him, totally killed Barcelona's flow. How many chances did Barcelona create?

Adriano losing his 2 markers and scoring that goal can't be attributed to any sort of tactical plan.

Chaos in Atletico's box after a corner kick can't be attibuted to any sort of tactical plan.

The fourth goal was an individual *bleep* moment after Atletico was already beaten and their heads had dropped.

Only the third goal was a "proper" team goal. But even that was a ridiculous striker from outside the box which only Messi could have scored in that situation.

A bit more luck for Atletico and Falcao scores 2 of the 3 great chances he had. A bit less luck for Barcelona and Adriano's shot flies over the bar and Busquet's shot gets blocked. See what I mean?

eelir wrote:Also, what is wrong if our fullbacks score so much? Does that make the goals invalid?

Nothing is "wrong" with it. It is just special and not something you can rely on every time like a proper "team goal". The game could have went completely differently had Alves started instead of Adriano for example.

Well said Free, great post.

I think as always people like to poke a stick at Barca formation and tactics, whenever we dont win a game (or in this case struggle for 30 minutes against the 2nd best team lol) all of a sudden the way he play is flawed.

The guy is pointing out how the goals were not part of the "tactical plan" but its incredibly flawed reasoning. We controlled the game completely in the 2nd half and regardless of how the goals came, our way of playing was the key to victory. Whenever someone talks about luck, is there any point of continuing.

Picking out one game where the forward dont threaten the goal is pretty silly. One game.

It's not one game though. I'd argue that this is happening since last season already against any team that isn't cannon fodder.

AC Milan: 4 games. Not a single one was won from open play. Penalties decided the ties. And this wasn't even a particularly great Milan side. Thiago Silva injured. 35 year old Nesta...

Chelsea twice.

Struggling against a disciplined Celtic side. Twice.

Even Real Madrid. They aren't in particularly great shape this season, but 3 of the 5 goals Barcelona scored against Madrid this season were penalties + freekicks.

The usual Barcelona gameplan doesn't really work that well anymore against anything that isn't called Zaragoza, Deportivo or Real Sociedad.

We'll see in the Champions League I guess.

If your talking about more than 1 game, it makes you even more wrong.

Because this season, the forwards are getting chances...they just arent finishing.

Milan? We are going back to last season? Please, why bother.

You cant win every game and have the forward score in all of them.

Chelsea? We scored goals, let in goals, missed chances.

To say the gameplan doesnt work is just silly. Because the goals dont come from there every single time? How about the countless chances missed in those games?

Its a bit silly to look at the goals and ignore everything else. If Valdes doesnt give Di Maria a goal and we dont miss 1 less easy, guilt edge chance vs Chelsea you really wouldnt have a leg to stand on here.

I predict barca will not win CL this season. So I say that for every team, as chances are they wont. At the end i declare myself the most knowledgable person in football, as my predictions are 15/16 true. Great percentage.

eelir wrote:I predict barca will not win CL this season. So I say that for every team, as chances are they wont. At the end i declare myself the most knowledgable person in football, as my predictions are 15/16 true. Great percentage.

futbol wrote:It's not one game though. I'd argue that this is happening since last season already against any team that isn't cannon fodder.

AC Milan: 4 games. Not a single one was won from open play. Penalties decided the ties. And this wasn't even a particularly great Milan side. Thiago Silva injured. 35 year old Nesta...

Chelsea twice.

Struggling against a disciplined Celtic side. Twice.

Even Real Madrid. They aren't in particularly great shape this season, but 3 of the 5 goals Barcelona scored against Madrid this season were penalties + freekicks.

The usual Barcelona gameplan doesn't really work that well anymore against anything that isn't called Zaragoza, Deportivo or Real Sociedad.

We'll see in the Champions League I guess.

Seems to me that you're ignoring the times a team took that approach and it didn't work and only naming the times it sort-of-did. Chelsea should've lose by more than 3 goals if we had our scoring boots on that day, for instance. I agree that playing a narrow 4-4-2 relying on quick counter attacks is the way to play against Barca, but we were "found out" by Hiddink. 4 years ago. And we still won the CL after he showed the world how to stop us.

Another point is that I don't see that many big teams pulling this off successfully in the CL. Arsenal or United? Never played against us like that. Bayern and Juve wouldn't either. Real Madrid have sort of figured it out, but they rely much more on the pressing of Barca than the Chelsea-approach, which is more effective imo. The rest of the teams Barca can deal with well.