Time for the UK to leave the EU?

I say yes! Absolutely!

More people are becoming aware of the corruption, incompetence and lack of democracy(amongst a few) and there have been opinion polls in the UK suggesting that the British public want out.

The EU are trying to build one big country called Europe as far as I know and they're seriously going down the wrong path. They're doing anything possible to save a crashing currency(euro) and its affecting other things.

Switzerland and Norway have set the example. Same can apply for the UK too. I do not believe we need the EU in ANY way contrary to the belief some people have.

What is your opinion on this?

Leave. We joined the EEA which was all about free trading and Tourism. EU was never our plan, they are trying to create a federal state which should never happen.

Time to go out before it gets too late.

Which continent would UK be part of?

Yes, UK should not be held hostage by Eurocrats

Yohan Modric wrote:Which continent would UK be part of?

EU as in European Union mate. Not going out of Europe itself.

no i don't think UK should leave EU, its too important to us we haven't got their currency why should we leave it???

plus if we do leave it UK will officially be an outcast when eventually the countries go together(merkel has already made her thoughts clear) for meetings about greenhouse and stuff, Cameron is being an ass here, also we will have no say in the EU parliament as well that can prove to be very fatal if we can't put our messages clear to the EU countries on stuff like legislation etc as i said before completely against this idea, i can understand them wanting to take us out some of the EU laws but thats that, not COMPLETELY

i don't understand tho, if there is an EEA why is there an EU as well, they do same stuff really only that EU have their own currency with most of the countries within as well and more laws which is good really, dat hypocrisy when Britian used the EU Arrest warrant to get that Teacher/Schoolgirl back to England

halamadrid2 wrote:no i don't think UK should leave EU, its too important to us we haven't got their currency why should we leave it???

plus if we do leave it UK will officially be an outcast when eventually the countries go together(merkel has already made her thoughts clear) for meetings about greenhouse and stuff, Cameron is being an ass here, also we will have no say in the EU parliament as well that can prove to be very fatal if we can't put our messages clear to the EU countries on stuff like legislation etc as i said before completely against this idea, i can understand them wanting to take us out some of the EU laws but thats that, not COMPLETELY

i don't understand tho, if there is an EEA why is there an EU as well, they do same stuff really only that EU have their own currency with most of the countries within as well and more laws which is good really, dat hypocrisy when Britian used the EU Arrest warrant to get that Teacher/Schoolgirl back to England

We are being dragged by the neck because the EU is desperately trying to save a failed currency. Our politicians are giving millions away to a failed project everyday, killing the economy in the process because there are no benefits involved. They're heading in an entirely different direction to us. No way we can go along with their Soviet Union-esque dream. There's no sitting on the fence on this anymore.

Over 70% of our laws are made in foreign parliaments by faceless overpaid unelected people, which means our elections are pointless if you vote for the lib/lad/con traitor parties, you are basically voting for puppet politicians.

This talk about being alone and isolated, 'no one will want to trade with us', is classic europhile scaremongering. What people don't realise(and what europhiles and puppet mps fail to mention) is we are not even free to make our own trade deals because we are tied to the EU.

Dollar works just fine

Blue Barrett wrote:We are being dragged by the neck because the EU is desperately trying to save a failed currency. Our politicians are giving millions away to a failed project everyday, killing the economy in the process because there are no benefits involved. They're heading in an entirely different direction to us. No way we can go along with their Soviet Union-esque dream. There's no sitting on the fence on this anymore.

Over 70% of our laws are made in foreign parliaments by faceless overpaid unelected people, which means our elections are pointless if you vote for the lib/lad/con traitor parties, you are basically voting for puppet politicians.

This talk about being alone and isolated, 'no one will want to trade with us', is classic europhile scaremongering. What people don't realise(and what europhiles and puppet mps fail to mention) is we are not even free to make our own trade deals because we are tied to the EU.

I get what you are saying, Cameron and his peers keeps harping on about EU crisis having a dramatic effect on small time businesses here in England so far he has offered no proof of that, Germany have always been stable in terms of their economy, lets not forget Britian have been crawling in turtle speed out of recession and now there is talks of a double dip, Cameron to save face obviously blames the Euro crisis when some of the countries who use that currency haven't even been in recession yet.

he is probably moaning why Britian also have to give aid to Greece. other countries are working just fine with trading within the EU particularly the Scandinavian countries who have one of teh best run governments in the world, its time for Cameron to stop pointing fingers and blame himself and Theresa May for a change, they use more money to stalk Assange than to tackle crime and get us out of recession ffs, what about that Banking Crisis which hit us, does he blame that on the Euro as well???

at least countries in the Euro have set plans on what they want to do with research into greenhouse and to get the economy going forward, Britain are continuesly lagging behind in this department due to our governments incompetence when it comes to running a nation.

I am yet to hear this government fixing more jobs than the failed Labour party, what Cameron is doing is squeeze every penny out of the working class families to fund for things that obviously would not and do not work, half of our taxes go to things like Benefits and alot of it is going to education as well(Nick was right when he said there is too much bearucracy in this country) some of it goes to Scotland as well who use the money to give free higher Education etc we pay 9 grand ffs NINE FCKING GRAND, but no Cameron would never do that, it would obviously bring us back into recession as well oh wait half of those who claim incapability benefits are fit and just fine we spend alot on NHS which is now up for revamp anyways just listen to this.......we spend about 5k per 50k salary on benefits and pension while we spend a mere 1k of the same salary on public protection

I agree with you on lib dems tho as they want us to get Euro for some reason when pounds have been working just fine.

As for the Law, some of them are useless and the government said they would take us out of it anyways, and no countries have been working just fine with EU laws, without EU laws there would be no cap on the amount of emmission you can give out, what do you think would happen then, coutnries would turn into China and just not give a damn

Britian along with France and Germany are the most powrful nations in EU i am sure their respective reresentative in EU can challenge new laws that we don't think is good, EU is not a dictatorship which is why every country in it have their own representative in the EU parliament, Cameron trying for symphaty votes here to stop people asking him about the economy which is not moving forward

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/359516/EU-makes-fools-of-Britain-again

Oooooh, it gets interesting now

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/359637/David-Cameron-threatens-veto-as-he-warns-EU-not-to-cut-Britain-s-rebate

Englands problem isn't the EU, it's Thatcher destroying the manufacturing sector of the industry. If Britain still had a proper industrial sector and unions, they'd be much better off nowadays, with private citizens having more money, and the economy as a whole being more resistant to speculation.

Well, but blaming the Tories that actually steered the UK into that massive shitpile would be so much harder than blaming the filthy French and the greedy Germans, so go bash the EU all you want, who wants decades of peace anyway? Let's go back to old Europe, you guys go build a couple aircraft carriers, I'll be invading Poland in the meantime...

Yohan Modric wrote:Which continent would UK be part of?

Common mate....

Yohan Modric wrote:Which continent would UK be part of?

North America, they're going to uproot the whole UK an push the whole island over like a sailboat

Leave MT alone, he's young.

Typical English foreign policy. Where's that other 'UK is anti-Europe thread'? Everything bad in the UK comes from Europe and everything good in the UK comes from the UK.

Prime Minister David Cameron has said the EU budget deal being offered in Brussels "was not good enough", as the summit broke up without agreement.

Mr Cameron said "unaffordable spending" was being cut in its member countries and EU institutions had to start to live in the "real world".

He said that what had been suggested amounted to "tinkering" with spending.

"We put down a very clear marker," said the PM, adding that a deal was still "doable" but not "at any cost".

"This wasn't Britain as some sort of lone actor," he said, adding that other countries backed the UK view.

At a press conference after the summit ended Mr Cameron said: "All of these countries are net contributors to the EU. In other words, like Britain, they write the cheques.

"Together, we had a very clear message - 'We are not going to be tough on budgets at home just to come here and sign up to big increases in European spending'."

He added: "But we still believe a deal is absolutely do-able. Freezing budget is not an extreme position."

The biggest net contributors (those who pay in more than they get back) are: Germany, the UK, France and Italy but EU Commission data shows that in terms of per capita contributions the UK is sixth, after the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Finland.

Leaders of the 27 EU member countries are expected to meet again early next year.

Some countries had wanted to continue the talks but the two day summit ended after Germany and the UK insisted the differences were too great.

Talks on the 2014-2020 budget began on Thursday and continued on Friday afternoon, with most EU members wanting a budget increase, but the UK and some others wanting a freeze or cut.

President of the European Council Herman Van Rompuy had circulated a revised proposal for the new budget at the start of the two-day summit and said he believed a compromise was possible.

But German Chancellor Angela Merkel said after Thursday's talks: "I think we're advancing a bit, but I doubt that we will reach a deal."

UK rebate
French President Francois Hollande also cautioned that an agreement might not be possible: "We should not consider that if we don't get there tomorrow or the day after, all would be lost."

The EU Commission, which drafts EU laws, has called for an increase of 4.8% on the 2007-2013 budget.

The UK is the most vocal of EU member states seeking cuts in the budget to match austerity programmes at home

Mr Cameron has stressed the importance of the UK keeping its budget rebate, worth 3.5bn euros in 2011, despite the EU Commission and some EU governments wanting it scrapped.

Poland and its former-communist neighbours, which rely heavily on EU cash, want current spending maintained or raised.

Mr Hollande has also called for subsidies for farming and development programmes to be sustained for poorer nations. France has traditionally been a big beneficiary of EU farm support.

Failure to agree on the budget would mean rolling over the 2013 budget into 2014 on a month-by-month basis, putting some long-term projects at risk.

Analysts say that could leave the UK in a worse position, because the 2013 budget is bigger than the preceding years of the 2007-2013 budget round.

The UK government could then end up with an EU budget higher than what it says it will accept now.

The UK's opposition Labour Party said the summit showed the UK PM was "weak and isolated in Europe".

Shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander said: "It is vital for Britain that the prime minister uses the weeks ahead to do what he has so far failed to do - making the calls, making the arguments and building the alliances - so that the right deal for Britain and for Europe can finally be agreed."

The Conservatives' junior coalition partners, the pro-European Liberal Democrats, said they were "at one" over Mr Cameron's actions at the summit.

A spokesman for Deputy PM Nick Clegg said: "Britain has worked constructively to come to a deal and, while there has been progress at this summit, the deal is still not right for Britain and a number of other countries.

"It is right that, across Europe, we now all take a couple of months to step back from this, continue to make our case for restraint and come back to it in 2013 ready to do a sensible deal along the lines we've proposed."

BBC

Well said David. Agree with him completely on this one. You can't just raise the spending of the EU as a whole while there are crippling austerity measures being brought in for many countries that are a part of it. In the time like these, We can't pay whatever outrageous sum the EU wants which they will no doubt spend it on something useless. And of course there will be hardly any reform.

The new EU summit building is costing something like £800 million Euros

We have enough problems within the UK that hardly gets any attention, Child Poverty is on the rise. Child Benefits are being cut. We don't have any money to waste it in Europe

We need an in/out referendum asap

It would be a pitty, but if their will no one can force the UK to remain in the EU.

IMO the EU is receiving a lot of criticism, but it's an institution that has to be valued a lot. It has helped democracy and to avoid Europeans to kill one another every 20 years. I think this should be very appreciated and not care that much in short term economical benefits.

Exactly, also, money spent on the EU is not "wasted" per se, it benefits all member states, and even if rich countries like France, the UK, and Germany pay more than they get paid out, that might soon change.

Sure, there's bureaucracy and missmanagement, some money is wasted, but funds funneled through the EU aren't gone from the EU economy, they fuel it. And England are among the countries who benefit from the rise of the new European states, that are suddenly able to afford their goods, and to invest in the UK.

Some good news this morning

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/363673/David-Cameron-is-set-to-give-us-a-vote-on-EU-claims-Boris-Johnson

He won't do it. He is lying

Little sovereignty, large cost

And what if Britain left? It could grab a few benefits quickly. The nation would save about £8 billion ($13 billion) a year in net budget contributions. Freed of the common agricultural policy, its food could become cheaper. If it pulled out of the single market, it could do away with annoying labour directives. The City would not have to worry so much about a financial-transaction tax and creeping European finance rules.

Yet these gains would be greatly outweighed by the costs of a British exit, which would dent trade with a market that accounts for half of Britain’s exports. The carmakers that use Britain as their European operations base would gradually drift away, along with large parts of the financial-services industry. Britain would have to renegotiate dozens of bilateral trade deals from a much weaker position than it enjoyed as a member of the EU. It would cut a greatly diminished figure on the world stage. It would have bought some sovereignty, but at an extraordinary cost to Britain—and its partners.

Among those who want out, there is talk of finding an accommodation by which Britain would leave the EU but still trade freely with it (the equivalent of eating in a restaurant but not paying the cover charge). Some Eurosceptics suggest Britain could join Norway in the European Economic Area. That would leave it bound by EU regulations that it would be almost powerless to shape—a situation many Britons, especially Eurosceptics, would find intolerable. Others hope Britain might get the same deal as Switzerland, which is a little further removed but gets good access to the single market. It wouldn’t: the EU already regrets giving Switzerland the Swiss option, so it is scarcely likely to give bigger, more troublesome Britain the same deal. Again, disappointment and a referendum beckon.

Can anything be done to prevent this slow-motion disaster? Quite possibly, it can. Oddly, Mr Cameron should try emulating Baroness Thatcher. She is remembered today as a handbag-swinger who commanded Brussels to retreat, but she also knew how to make common cause with other European leaders. Unfortunately, the quality of British EU diplomacy has deteriorated in recent years. Obsessed with repatriating powers and with appearing tough to their domestic audience, Britain’s current leaders seem to have forgotten the art of dealmaking. Mr Cameron has a good case to make, especially when he argues for extending the single market to promote growth. He also has powerful sympathisers in Europe, including Germany’s Angela Merkel, but they seldom become useful allies because Britain is seen as a blackmailing zealot.

The other priority should be educating Britons about what exactly a British exit would really involve. Big business and the City, whose interests lie solidly inside the EU, need to take a stand. The Labour Party, which has been playing a cynical and dangerous game, also needs to change its line. In October Labour MPs voted with anti-European Tories over the EU budget, handing the government its first major defeat. By strengthening those who want to leave Europe, Labour is making it more likely that a Conservative government will have to promise an in-or-out referendum. If it does, Labour may be bounced into promising the same.

Most of the heavy lifting, at home as well as in Brussels, will have to be done by Mr Cameron and his chancellor, George Osborne. They need to remind Britons of the victories that have been won within the EU and of the dangers of falling out of it. And above all, they need to rediscover the virtues of muddling along and keeping options open. The referendum is a good example. Rushing to hold a simple in-or-out vote sounds clear and decisive. But stalling for time is wiser. The government should resist demands for a vote at least until it becomes clear what sort of Europe Britain would be voting to remain in or leave. This sort of wait-and-see approach may feel unsatisfactory, but it is what kept Britain out of the euro.

Britain’s position in Europe may become untenable, if the resolution of the economic crisis binds the countries of the euro zone ever closer and all other EU countries join. But that is not a certainty, and nor is Britain’s steady marginalisation. Difficult and often humiliating as it may be, the best course is to stick close to Europe, and try to bend it towards Britain.

Read more: http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21567940-british-exit-european-union-looks-increasingly-possible-it-would-be-reckless

Another article worth reading: http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21567914-how-britain-could-fall-out-european-union-and-what-it-would-mean-making-break

In the event of a referendum, would British citizens abroad be allowed to vote?

dmize wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Which continent would UK be part of?

North America, they're going to uproot the whole UK an push the whole island over like a sailboat

It's a risky move, there are a lot of icebergs and they could have the same fate as Titanic