Re: Islamists attack US embassy in egypt on 9/11

by RealGunner Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:55 pm

Potential wrote:It's funny how religious people on this forum believe that their holy book mean what they understand but not what it says.

The movie was in retaliation of the christian who live in fear everyday of their life after the elections in egypt, I am wondering why this hasn't been mentioned! Everyday christians die and are prosecuted by islamic extremist.

And it's still funny you pretending to understand it

They movie is by a man who think's Islam is a cancer to this world and his objective was to bring out a reaction from the Muslims so he can prove his point. A disgusting tactic but the "freedom of speech" protects him so he couldn't care less.

I don't think the movie is real in any case.

by RealGunner Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:04 pm

Potential wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
Potential wrote: what however stands to be cleared: the christian society is very peaceful in Jerusalem whereas the muslim society still suffers from hatery toward jews.

Funny that.

Most of my friends in Arab48 Feels the complete Opposite of that.

I am just stating what I see on day to day bases, most christians seemed to understand that Israel is here to stay while (at least most) muslims still call it Palastine and still want all the jews out, although not all of the people agree.

I am glad jews are in charge of holy places, this lessen the interaction of muslims and christians therefore jews act as 'nuclear barrier' therefore they must stay imo.

lmao my sides Laughing

Jews, Christians and Mulsims all lived in peace in Palestine till the Bullshit UN policy of partition and the illegal setting up of a state.

Palestinians wants peace. Start treating them like humans and they won't be pushing you out, like it was before. The Christians Won't do anything because they are being treated well by both Muslims and the Israel Jews.

by RealGunner Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:07 pm

che wrote:
Spider wrote:

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

it actually is, though... you can say whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't threaten anyone

should it be illegal to call fat people fat because it hurts their feelings?

Saying the word "ni***r" doesn't threaten anyone, but it's still banned no ? Why isn't there a "freedom of speech" calling someone a Vanilla face ?

by Highburied Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:22 pm

RealGunner wrote:
che wrote:
Spider wrote:

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

it actually is, though... you can say whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't threaten anyone

should it be illegal to call fat people fat because it hurts their feelings?

Saying the word "ni***r" doesn't threaten anyone, but it's still banned no ? Why isn't there a "freedom of speech" calling someone a Vanilla face ?

by Spider Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:27 pm

highburied wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
che wrote:
Spider wrote:

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

it actually is, though... you can say whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't threaten anyone

should it be illegal to call fat people fat because it hurts their feelings?

Saying the word "ni***r" doesn't threaten anyone, but it's still banned no ? Why isn't there a "freedom of speech" calling someone a Vanilla face ?

by McLewis Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:39 pm

highburied wrote:Insulting religion is not a free speech sir.

The 1st Amendment of the Constitution of the United States says you're wrong.

These filmmakers are protected by it. Nothing and no one can change that.

by McLewis Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:42 pm

RealGunner wrote:
che wrote:
Spider wrote:

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

it actually is, though... you can say whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't threaten anyone

should it be illegal to call fat people fat because it hurts their feelings?

Saying the word "ni***r" doesn't threaten anyone, but it's still banned no ? Why isn't there a "freedom of speech" calling someone a Vanilla face ?

That's actually incorrect. The n-word is not banned here. No word is officially banned in the USA because all words are protected by the 1st amendment under freedom of speech.

by RedOranje Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:49 pm

RealGunner wrote:
che wrote:
Spider wrote:

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

it actually is, though... you can say whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't threaten anyone

should it be illegal to call fat people fat because it hurts their feelings?

Saying the word "ni***r" doesn't threaten anyone, but it's still banned no ? Why isn't there a "freedom of speech" calling someone a Vanilla face ?

Fallacious argument, that.

Huge difference between banning all criticism/unflattering talk of of a religion and a single slur. There's also a huge difference between the government bannig a word and society itself doing so (via universal condemnation)... one involves legislation and limiting a universal right, the other merely involves exercising of peer pressure and societal standards... one is the government putting down restrictions, the other is The People making a conscious decision. A better comparison there would be the terms "n*****" and "towel-head". Both are racial slurs, both are considered unacceptable in the majority of society, both are still used by some idiotic bigots and extremists.

Even then, violence against innocents is NOT considered an acceptable or justifiable response to the use of such language.

CNN actually has a rather interesting article on the current situation (I know, an insightful piece from a major news station... shocking) that's worth a look through and some consideration. LINK

The fact of the matter is that all religions are open to the same criticism in the US, and that both Christianity and Judaism (and atheism, for that matter) have received much the same treatment as Islam over the years (in reference to the movie). For all it's (many) faults, the US is still one of the most free nations in the world when it comes to freedom of speech... and a movie made in the US may very well not have the support of any of the government or nearly any of the people, as is the case in this incident. However, even if we don't agree with what the movie says/shows, the Constitution protects their right to say it... it's not that the government the movie, they absolutely do not. Nor do the vast majority of US citizens. But we do understand that to stop them from saying it opens the door to all manner of censorship.

In an ideal world, people WOULD respect everyone else's beliefs, even if they did not agree with them. This is NOT an ideal world though, and never will be. So the choice becomes A) allow free speech and grow thicker skin or B) censorship and limited rights.

I know which I advocate, how about you?

by zizzle Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:53 pm

McLewis wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
che wrote:
Spider wrote:

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

it actually is, though... you can say whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't threaten anyone

should it be illegal to call fat people fat because it hurts their feelings?

Saying the word "ni***r" doesn't threaten anyone, but it's still banned no ? Why isn't there a "freedom of speech" calling someone a Vanilla face ?

That's actually incorrect. The n-word is not banned here. No word is officially banned in the USA because all words are protected by the 1st amendment under freedom of speech.

Screaming FIRE in a closed crowded place is illegal in the US (when there's no fire ofcourse) and it is a punishable crime. Looks like free speach has its limitations as well

by RealGunner Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:00 pm

McLewis wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
che wrote:
Spider wrote:

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

it actually is, though... you can say whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't threaten anyone

should it be illegal to call fat people fat because it hurts their feelings?

Saying the word "ni***r" doesn't threaten anyone, but it's still banned no ? Why isn't there a "freedom of speech" calling someone a Vanilla face ?

That's actually incorrect. The n-word is not banned here. No word is officially banned in the USA because all words are protected by the 1st amendment under freedom of speech.

wow. Didn't know that

A person can go to Jail for saying the N word over here

by RedOranje Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:03 pm

zizzle wrote:
McLewis wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
che wrote:
Spider wrote:

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

it actually is, though... you can say whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't threaten anyone

should it be illegal to call fat people fat because it hurts their feelings?

Saying the word "ni***r" doesn't threaten anyone, but it's still banned no ? Why isn't there a "freedom of speech" calling someone a Vanilla face ?

That's actually incorrect. The n-word is not banned here. No word is officially banned in the USA because all words are protected by the 1st amendment under freedom of speech.

Screaming FIRE in a closed crowded place is illegal in the US (when there's no fire ofcourse) and it is a punishable crime. Looks like free speach has its limitations as well

Yes, because that causes direct threat to other citizens. It's not a type of speech that's expressing an idea or opinion, either.

Far, FAR different from banning criticism of a belief system or institution. Another fallacious comparison.

by RealGunner Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:12 pm

RedOranje wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
che wrote:
Spider wrote:

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

it actually is, though... you can say whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't threaten anyone

should it be illegal to call fat people fat because it hurts their feelings?

Saying the word "ni***r" doesn't threaten anyone, but it's still banned no ? Why isn't there a "freedom of speech" calling someone a Vanilla face ?

Fallacious argument, that.

Huge difference between banning all criticism/unflattering talk of of a religion and a single slur. There's also a huge difference between the government bannig a word and society itself doing so (via universal condemnation)... one involves legislation and limiting a universal right, the other merely involves exercising of peer pressure and societal standards... one is the government putting down restrictions, the other is The People making a conscious decision. A better comparison there would be the terms "n*****" and "towel-head". Both are racial slurs, both are considered unacceptable in the majority of society, both are still used by some idiotic bigots and extremists.

Even then, violence against innocents is NOT considered an acceptable or justifiable response to the use of such language.

CNN actually has a rather interesting article on the current situation (I know, an insightful piece from a major news station... shocking) that's worth a look through and some consideration. LINK

The fact of the matter is that all religions are open to the same criticism in the US, and that both Christianity and Judaism (and atheism, for that matter) have received much the same treatment as Islam over the years (in reference to the movie). For all it's (many) faults, the US is still one of the most free nations in the world when it comes to freedom of speech... and a movie made in the US may very well not have the support of any of the government or nearly any of the people, as is the case in this incident. However, even if we don't agree with what the movie says/shows, the Constitution protects their right to say it... it's not that the government the movie, they absolutely do not. Nor do the vast majority of US citizens. But we do understand that to stop them from saying it opens the door to all manner of censorship.

In an ideal world, people WOULD respect everyone else's beliefs, even if they did not agree with them. This is NOT an ideal world though, and never will be. So the choice becomes A) allow free speech and grow thicker skin or B) censorship and limited rights.

I know which I advocate, how about you?

I agree with all of that, Good points all across. But i am arguing that taking the Freedom of speech hammer to promote hatred, That isn't what anyone wants.

The USA Government has no right to stop the Alleged Film, However they could contract the line between what's right to say and what's not. Most would agree Racist slurs are not appropriate, neither calling someone a terrorist. Isn't freedom of speech actually spurring the twats on ?

by Yuri Yukuv Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:13 pm

zizzle wrote:
McLewis wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
che wrote:
Spider wrote:

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

it actually is, though... you can say whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't threaten anyone

should it be illegal to call fat people fat because it hurts their feelings?

Saying the word "ni***r" doesn't threaten anyone, but it's still banned no ? Why isn't there a "freedom of speech" calling someone a Vanilla face ?

That's actually incorrect. The n-word is not banned here. No word is officially banned in the USA because all words are protected by the 1st amendment under freedom of speech.

Screaming FIRE in a closed crowded place is illegal in the US (when there's no fire ofcourse) and it is a punishable crime. Looks like free speach has its limitations as well

There is also restrictions on commercial speech and images (pornography of underage minors). But political speech cannot be abridged, that includes views on historical figures like moe.

by zizzle Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:16 pm

so how come ill be buttraped if say i deny the holocaust ?

by Yuri Yukuv Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:19 pm

zizzle wrote:so how come ill be buttraped if say i deny the holocaust ?

Not in the US you wont

by RedOranje Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:26 pm

Bigots will be bigots regardless. They may find it more difficult to get their hate speech out, but it will still be there and some will still find a way... especially with the internet.

Fact of the matter is, those involved did not need to receive permission from anyone to make their movie, and the government/US people did not know the video was being made until it was released on the internet... at which point there's no stopping it. Even some of the actors claim they did not know the video was going to be used in such a way when they filmed it (bit hard to believe, that).

To attack innocents who had no part in the video, no knowledge of the video, and who would denounce such bigotry as vehemently as those the video attacks is simply indefensible and unjustifiable. Decry those that spread the hate, those that proclaim their bigotry, and defend yourself (with words or demonstrations) against those that attack you (with words and demonstrations)... but do not use violence against those innocents who, in all likelihood, share a similar disgust for the bigots that you do.

There's simply no excuse for attacking an embassy, injuring the civilians there, killing diplomats, or burning property in this case.

YES, I do know that the protests are about much more than just the video... it was an excuse for some extremists and bigots (yes, bigots exist everywhere) to incite others to action. And honestly, I wouldn't have a problem if the people had simply protested outside the embassies. It still seems like a bit of an overreaction to me but it's well within their rights (again, in my opinion). But vandalising and enacting violence are simply over the line of human decency.

March, picket, get on your soap boxes and harangue... exercise your own rights to free speech.

But do not hurl stones, throw punches, stab, shoot or burn... especially against those that are not involved and unrelated.

by RedOranje Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:30 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:
zizzle wrote:so how come ill be buttraped if say i deny the holocaust ?

Not in the US (by the government) you wont

Much like using the terms "n*****", "towel-head", "spic" etc, the government cannot and will not punish you for using such terms... but the general population may be different.

Most that use such terms often and mean them in a demeaning manner are ostracized.

by II Capitano Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:47 pm

Out of topic here, but I was reading A Streetcar Named Desire and there was a reference to fire. When someone gets raped, shouting the word evokes attention, so that could be the reason for the law implemented regarding this.

by Potential Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:48 pm

Spider wrote:
Potential wrote:I am just stating what I see on day to day bases, most christians seemed to understand that Israel is here to stay while (at least most) muslims still call it Palastine and still want all the jews out, although not all of the people agree.

It will always be Palastine not I***** =)

Anyway on topic , Egyptians should have acted in a different way i agree on that , After all Prophet Muhammad ( s.a.a.w) told us to meet abuse with good ,

+ " freedom of speech " can kiss my @ss it's just a cover made by the media to say attack anyone you want , you can't just curse someone and then say " hey heeeeey it's just freedom of speech i can say what i want "

Potential wrote:It's funny how religious people on this forum believe that their holy book mean what they understand but not what it says.

The movie was in retaliation of the christian who live in fear everyday of their life after the elections in egypt, I am wondering why this hasn't been mentioned! Everyday christians die and are prosecuted by islamic extremist.

" Christian who live in fear everyday of their life after the elections in egypt"
"Everyday christians die and are prosecuted by islamic extremist "

Everyday dude show me evidence and i will start debating with you , other than that you can't just make things up lol

My favorite is 29:00, destroy their reputation unless they convert, P.S I haven't watched the entire video I just skimmed over it for 2 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI6caG03XKE

by RealGunner Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:51 pm

RedOranje wrote:Bigots will be bigots regardless. They may find it more difficult to get their hate speech out, but it will still be there and some will still find a way... especially with the internet.

Fact of the matter is, those involved did not need to receive permission from anyone to make their movie, and the government/US people did not know the video was being made until it was released on the internet... at which point there's no stopping it. Even some of the actors claim they did not know the video was going to be used in such a way when they filmed it (bit hard to believe, that).

To attack innocents who had no part in the video, no knowledge of the video, and who would denounce such bigotry as vehemently as those the video attacks is simply indefensible and unjustifiable. Decry those that spread the hate, those that proclaim their bigotry, and defend yourself (with words or demonstrations) against those that attack you (with words and demonstrations)... but do not use violence against those innocents who, in all likelihood, share a similar disgust for the bigots that you do.

There's simply no excuse for attacking an embassy, injuring the civilians there, killing diplomats, or burning property in this case.

YES, I do know that the protests are about much more than just the video... it was an excuse for some extremists and bigots (yes, bigots exist everywhere) to incite others to action. And honestly, I wouldn't have a problem if the people had simply protested outside the embassies. It still seems like a bit of an overreaction to me but it's well within their rights (again, in my opinion). But vandalising and enacting violence are simply over the line of human decency.

March, picket, get on your soap boxes and harangue... exercise your own rights to free speech.

But do not hurl stones, throw punches, stab, shoot or burn... especially against those that are not involved and unrelated.

by Potential Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:54 pm

P.S: I don't support the creation of the video and I diagree with it, however I will defend its existence, free speech is the foundation of democraticy and without it; we might as well as grow back to the caves!

by RealGunner Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:58 pm

Potential wrote:P.S: I don't support the creation of the video and I diagree with it, however I will defend its existence, free speech is the foundation of democraticy and without it; we might as well as grow back to the caves!

So you are ok with Racist slurs not being banned in USA then?

by Potential Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:03 pm

RealGunner wrote:
Potential wrote:P.S: I don't support the creation of the video and I diagree with it, however I will defend its existence, free speech is the foundation of democraticy and without it; we might as well as grow back to the caves!

So you are ok with Racist slurs not being banned in USA then?

Same attitude, I disagree with people using them however I will defend their existence.

by RedOranje Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:04 pm

I believe we've already covered why that comparison is inaccurate, RG.

That said, yes, I am against the government banning racial slurs. I do not believe they should be used but I also do not believe that laws are the proper means to stop their use.

by RealGunner Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:10 pm

hmm, guess we agree to disagree then Wink

by rwo power Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:12 pm

Well, now Islamists in Sudan have also attacked a German and a British embassy. too. I wonder how they want to justify *this* with a stupid US video. Great job by "peaceful followers of the Islam"...

Why aren't there the "real Muslims" holding these idiots back while telling them this is not what the Islam is supposed to be about? As things look they just look away and let the criminals do their work. *That* is what I absolutely do not understand. If there are so many more peaceful muslims, why can't they stop the supposedly "few violent ones"?

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