Islamists attack US embassy in egypt on 9/11

Found this Gem of an article, Please read it all if you have the time ( you can skip the part on God which is in italic ) It sums what i want to say


Are The Taliban Really Muslims?

As a child every Muslim girl learns that she needs to be good, do her prayers five times daily and know that God is more than just a word. He is closer to our body than our veins and He sees and hears everything, as we say in Arabic many times over in our five daily prayers. He said so Himself.

This closeness means God watches us as we make our daily decisions in everything we do; from laundry to politicking and playing God with people's lives. Our Creator has said many times over in the holy books, Torah, Bible and Koran, that He watches us without resting. He says this not to scare us but to give us assurance we can lean on him in thick and thin. We can seek Him and He will answer. It is not to make Him important, even though He is, but to let us know that He knows who is who and what we are doing.

Muslims believe in an afterlife as the Prophet taught in the holy Quran. It seems surreal that what we were taught as sacred is now regularly on the daily news. Seems to me the Muslim Afterlife has become more a fad than the real deal. Everything from virgins to heaven seems to be for sale!
Bin Laden, Al Qaeda and other Islamist teach that you can buy your way to heaven by killing innocent non-Muslims! That blasphemous concept was not in the lesson plan when I studied Islam. I am still trying to figure out, where did the Prophet say that you can kill the innocent and go to heaven?

Once upon time, Muslim children were taught they should behave and do good things because their book of deeds will be opened in front of everyone in the afterlife. There was a time when children were told that if they do naughty things, God would let everyone in the afterlife who comes to get their assignment to Heaven or Hell know about their misuse of Islam or any other religion. Children became good people, embraced, fear out of respect and, of course, deep love for God during their adult years. Money was never part of the Islam agenda until Bin Laden become the entrepreneur Muslim!

We were taught that the Prophet himself (Peace be upon him) was the symbol of kindness. As a moderate Muslim, perhaps I should be the last to admit this but I am very distraught when non-Muslims challenge me about the time of Prophet Mohamad and recite a litany of disturbing stories, some with a hint of truth and some entirely bogus.

My blood boils when people wrongly judge a Prophet who was so kind. I have studied his path that he used to pass on the same street every day, allowing a non believer to insult and pour hot ashes on him. After many years of heaping abuse on the Prophet, when the man became sick, Prophet went to his bedside, calling him friend and asking about his health.

It bothers me when people seem to have an On and Off switch for history and jump from the 21st century to 1400 and judge Prophet Mohamad based on what they see today. As heart broken as I am, I can not really blame them because I too am upset with the behavior of some ignorant individuals who call themselves Muslims.

When sincere but uninformed people judge the actions of Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him) based on the actions of a bunch of killers of innocents such as the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Bin Laden, I do not blame the questioners and can offer little defense because we, as Muslims, don't do anything to stop these contemporary madmen. So, what can we expect of others who don't share our knowledge and belief in the Prophet.

As a Muslim, my pain doubles. It is my Muslim duty to stand up to those who insult the Prophet but first I must stand up to the men who use Him and destroy our Prophet's legacy as they destroy Islam that he worked so hard to bring to his good followers. What is our mission? When a Muslim is called to a Jihad, he is not called to kill but to defend his religion. That is the meaning of the word Jihad and the true purpose: to defend our religion when it is threatened. Our religion has been hijacked by so-called Islamist. A billion Muslims are suffering the consequences of a bunch of Pirates calling themselves Muslims and we do absolutely nothing to censure or stop them.

They are killing the innocent, robbing, bombing and turning our children into the next generation of suicide bombers to bargain for Heaven, or, more likely, Hell. I challenge my fellow Muslims to ask themselves, if Prophet Mohamad was here would he agree with this? If your answer is No, you ought to stop this madness. You ought to stand up.

Our God, the God of Creation who created 124,000 prophets, in giving us books mentioned in the Koran, called five of his prophets the greatest men of three religions: Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohamad. He has created every man, woman and child in this world and he is the only one who can give a life or take a life.

When the Taliban commits the great sin of taking hostage innocent Korean civilians and kills them while calling themselves Muslims, I am at the end of my talking point. I can no longer tell non-Muslims, you can't say that about my religion or prophet because I myself am guilty of doing nothing!

Remember, on the day that we go back for judgment, God says, "I am going to place you in rows." He doesn't say, Row One Christians. Row Two Muslims. Row Three 3 Jews. He said in Rows. You shall stand and you shall answer. He will ask, "What you have done for me?" We may be tempted to answer, "Dear God, you didn't need anything." He is going to tell us, "No, I didn't but your neighbor did. Your friends did. And, he is going to ask all of us, "Why, as Muslims didn't you stand up to the Taliban and demand freedom for the innocent the day you heard the news of innocent people becoming their hostage? Why didn't you say that God will never forgive the man killers who wrap themselves in phony religious protection?

He is going to tell us He will not forgive the Muslims because they didn't stand up to the religious charlatans. Even though we knew this was the right thing to do, we didn't do it. God has said many times, not only to his prophets but also to others, "You will feel me in your heart." While you are reading this article, close your eyes knowing that killing the innocent in the name of God is "Haraam"or Taboo in Islam. Then you will know that God has spoken to you.

Every Muslim must demand today, "Stop killing the innocent and free the hostages." Or, in your after life, you will be answering to God Himself for not standing up for the truth.

The misnamed Jihad responsible for the atrocities now enveloping our world is the real threat to the future of Islam. Rational Muslims must declare a Jihad on the false Jihad.

Don't just stand on the side walk waiting for someone else to do something. Muslims must shout, "Spare the innocent. Release the hostages. Stop playing God with people's lives in the name of God."

http://www.globalpolitician.com/23231-taliban

2007*

RealGunner wrote:@ rwo, found something for you. This is basically what i said, Government don't give 2 cents about the Malala Incident, but the people are aware, and so are the islamic leaders. Talibans are killing Muslims, they have killed more muslims than any other. They are NOT related to Islam and they never will be

http://dawn.com/2012/10/11/fifty-muslim-scholars-issue-fatwa-against-taliban/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/12/muslim-leaders-unite-against-the-taliban/?page=all

Now finally that is more like it! I would just hope that this would be published a bit wider and also spread by the Imams during these Friday prayers, too.

The Taliban are in no way Muslims, they represent everything that is the opposite of Islam.

Who are these people that call part of Taliban? Druggies, Crime lords, Revenge seekers.

Most of these Taliban leaders run some of the biggest drug trades in the world. Most of the opium in the world comes from Afghanistan/Pakistan, and majority of these Taliban are addicted to it. Some even openly run brothels.

and unlike the REAL Taliban(who are basically one group) the Pakistani Taliban(TTP) are a bunch of militias tribes that have joined together making them more dangerous.



read this article: http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/17/world/asia/pakistan-taliban-profile/index.html?iref=allsearch


In 2009 the Army went into their Stronghold Swat (where Malala lived) and had a bloody war with them, killing over 2000-3000 of them and kicking them out. But ever since the drone attacks have increased in Northern Pakistan they are come back.

rwo power wrote:

RealGunner wrote:@ rwo, found something for you. This is basically what i said, Government don't give 2 cents about the Malala Incident, but the people are aware, and so are the islamic leaders. Talibans are killing Muslims, they have killed more muslims than any other. They are NOT related to Islam and they never will be

http://dawn.com/2012/10/11/fifty-muslim-scholars-issue-fatwa-against-taliban/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/12/muslim-leaders-unite-against-the-taliban/?page=all

Now finally that is more like it! I would just hope that this would be published a bit wider and also spread by the Imams during these Friday prayers, too.

They have been doing that for years, that why TTP have been bombing Mosques during Friday prayers

RG great article

also @red, regarding making it clear to somebody that they are not part of your faith

There are scholars who do talk of the things being "un islamic" but they are NOT allowed to judge someone and say "so and so person is not a muslim" because he killed an innocent child thats not their job, we don't even know whether WE are following the religion properly so why judge them. Sure what they do is unethical and unislamic and such but to call somebody a non-muslim from that is prohibited in our religion. here is a couple of quotes from the quran which emphasises this:

Quran 88:25: For behold, unto Us will be their return,
Quran 88:26: Then it will be for (only) Us to call them to account.
Quran 22:17 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- God will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for God (alone) is witness of all things.


I think thats why you see the more knowledgeable world scholars/leaders not uttering a word other than speaking of it being not being based on our religion. Based on Islam this is prohibited, and also the Taliban said they are the soldiers of allah, does anyone sane actually believe this??

if you keep looking for something you'll find it, even if its not really there.

@halamadrid2

The problem for me (and I would assume other people who look at this from the outside) is that it appears as if the mass of the people who follow the Islam actually condone these criminal acts as they keep an eerie silence instead of explicitely distancing themselves by kicking them out.

Moreover, it allows the Taliban to feel 100% in the right to speak for the Islam as practically no one (but a handful of daring individuals as it seems) challenges them in that assumption.

When the statements of the Taliban that they do their horrors in the name of the Islam and the Shariah are given and then spread via the media, and the rest of the Islamic world can't really say "we refuse that these criminals belong to us as we are not allowed to judge whether someone is a Muslim or not - no matter what unspeakable acts s/he has committed, s/he has to be a Muslim as we are anyway as s/he says s/he is a Muslim", you will always have the Islam severely tainted.

I personally believe if social education and high school education becomes obligatory in the Arab world, we'll see a far more civilized and a better version of Islam (or if you'd like to call it, the true face of Islam), more like the one we see in the west!

Does anyone disagree with the above statement?

Potential wrote:I personally believe if social education and high school education becomes obligatory in the Arab world, we'll see a far more civilized and a better version of Islam (or if you'd like to call it, the true face of Islam), more like the one we see in the west!

Does anyone disagree with the above statement?

not at all. I have been saying that for years. And countries like UAE are already doing that, for example a lot of American Universities and British have been setting up their branches over there. Schools as well

However the problem is in Poor countries. U wont get education there, nevermind a good one. Unless poverty is eradicated which i highly doubt will happen, you won't be able to see tribal areas getting civilised. It's not the people's fault, it's the corrupt leaders who wont let something like that happening. It will kill their business, like what legend mentioned in his post

Well, I guess by bombing schools and depriving girls from education, the Taliban wants to make sure that only their tribal version stays in existence where they are in power...

I would really hope that wider spread higher education will be available everywhere as I fully agree that this will be indeed beneficial to a more peaceful civilization (especially as higher education usually leads to lesser population growth, too, which is the next big problem for the further prosperity of humankind).

@rwo, even though thats true, do you really think anything will change if say a guy from Egypt goes on their channel (Arrahma) and condone everything they did, and said they are not part of our faith as we are very distant away from them.

They would just find it as an excuse to get some people and bomb places in Egypt as well creating civil war and whatnot. Its better to ignore them and let the people with power handle them, its very rare that you see people educated in Egypt/Saudi engage in terrorism why?? because they have been properly educated and not brainwahsed with all their America/western world conspiracies. This is a very explicit matter i am sure the government of said country wouldn't want anything to do with these people so they try and refrain from even mentioning them

As you saw with someone that actually challenged them, she was shot at point blank, and unless people turn into proper rebels don't think many people will have the guts to speak up, if you know what i mean. people in these countries would love to speak up but they know what would happen if they did and talibans are in masses in those countries and the government are either turning a blind eye towards them or they really lack any equipment to be able to track them down and kill them. I mean Yemen did it with the terrorists who lived there why can't Afghanistan/Pakistan, sorry if anyone from those countries feel insulted in any way

I just feel it wouldn't work if religious people asked for a camera and said this guy is doing something wrong and us muslims are trying to distance ourselves from this, its just waste of money and resources as it will go in through one ear and out the next, i am sure whoever speaks up would be a target as well be it a muslim/non-muslim. The fact that they kill muslims surely can be an indication how this is not done by order from god which they continue to claim. Either the government of the countries where all teh camps are takes a tougher stance on these neanderthals or it will still be an issue for the rest of our lives

There are many countries in Africa who are poor but still get educated properly, don't think we can blame it on poverty tbh.

If you said it was because the extremist were having control of whatever place then i would agree because they would be able to implement anything they want. However if say education was made compulsory in the some of the poorer parts of the world you wouldn't exactly need to be a wealthy country to be able to educate your population

@halamadrid2

Actually I think it would change something as getting publicly kicked out of the Islam would very likely be a blow to their pride and moreover, it would likely sway the followers who are maybe true believers and just brainwashed that the killing stuff is right.

In medieval times in the Western world, to become excommunicated and thus anathema was one of the biggest fears of the people. Even Kings bowed down when the Pope threatened to excommunicate them (with one notable exception, of course, but that guy feared neither God nor devil anyway if you look at his acts).

As the Taliban and many of the radical Islamists more or less have a medieval mindset, it might be actually possible to put the proper fear of God into them by declaring them anathema and non-believers that will roast in their version of hell. (And if the radical leaders are not too impressed, it is likely that at least quite a part of their followers who really think they act in the name of the Islam/Shariah would be swayed.)

halamadrid2 wrote: I mean Yemen did it with the terrorists who lived there why can't Afghanistan/Pakistan, sorry if anyone from those countries feel insulted in any way

Afghanistan/Pakistan is a much more volatile place them Yemen, Both countries are surrounded by countries who are in the same situation. Unlike Yemen which is surrounded by SA and Oman

Pakistan is stuck between India to the east, Afghanistan and Iran to west plus Balochi nationals who want their own country). Chinese Muslims/ Central Asian Muslims at the north, who themselves have alot of political problems with their government. Then Pakistan has their own problem as States in Pakistan don't really like each other that much. And Pakistan is one of the most diverse places in the world just like India.

rwo power wrote:@halamadrid2

Actually I think it would change something as getting publicly kicked out of the Islam would very likely be a blow to their pride and moreover, it would likely sway the followers who are maybe true believers and just brainwashed that the killing stuff is right.

TBH, we all think its wrong, but if i am to tell the truth i would not go on a march to protest against these sloughs call me ignorant but i know deep down they are idiots and i know what they do does not really represent Islam in any shape or form, i have a life, go to Uni and hopefully will start work and live a happy life. And i am sure many feel the same as me. People with power have to discipline these guys, not so long ago an extremism preacher was sent to US to face trial for instigating and encouraging terrorism, if those countries did that they would drop down one after another into only a handful of people

In medieval times in the Western world, to become excommunicated and thus anathema was one of the biggest fears of the people. Even Kings bowed down when the Pope threatened to excommunicate them (with one notable exception, of course, but that guy feared neither God nor devil anyway if you look at his acts).

Thing with Christianity is that those who do follow it follow it properly and those who don't don't really engage in anything to do with it, you hardly see a Christian kill somebody because they have misinterpreted something in their holy book, in islam you see many trying to explain the quran in what they believe it means and thus different school teach different things. Arabic is a difficult language so i would not be surprised that people find it hard to understand it but you have to be careful who you choose to go to, because some of the teachers are just blatant extremists and haters to be able to teach you the right stuff. also an example of public outcry not working is the racism stuff, you see Serbia not changing their behaviour despite getting a fine here and there, if the powerful people did more to stop them we would see less of it, i think its the same with these Talibans

As the Taliban and many of the radical Islamists more or less have a medieval mindset, it might be actually possible to put the proper fear of God into them by declaring them anathema and non-believers that will roast in their version of hell. (And if the radical leaders are not too impressed, it is likely that at least quite a part of their followers who really think they act in the name of the Islam/Shariah would be swayed.)

Trust me it wouldn't work lol, some people think they are doing the right thing because it "says so in the quran" or because the prophet was in a battle so they try and justify it that way, you see many stubborn people in all religions but our religion have the most of them, you only see superficial part of Islam, but there is alot in it which many muslims think the extremists are doing wrong thats probably why nobody bothers with them, we have to start with the young and teach them the morals and ethic about being a muslim and i am sure many will improve

Legend wrote:Afghanistan/Pakistan is a much more volatile place them Yemen, Both countries are surrounded by countries who are in the same situation. Unlike Yemen which is surrounded by SA and Oman

Pakistan is stuck between India to the east, Afghanistan and Iran to west plus Balochi nationals who want their own country). Chinese Muslims/ Central Asian Muslims at the north, who themselves have alot of political problems with their government. Then Pakistan has their own problem as States in Pakistan don't really like each other that much. And Pakistan is one of the most diverse places in the world just like India.

Yemen have also been an example of where terrorists can touch base and have their camps there. Alqaida and not talibans

Saudi don't really engage that much with Yemen, and they have their own problems as well as their king has been in war and has a brother who tries to assasinate him at every possibility. But once and for all they stopped or mostly stopped all these terrorists by swarming their camp and getting rid of them. Problem with Pakistan/Afghanistan is that they don't want outside help to do things in their country, but if they don't want help then surely they should be able to handle it themselves no?? from what i have read seen they haven't made a move yet to eradicate the Talibans. They have to strike the source so that it then would be easier to deal with as a whole

halamadrid2 wrote:

Legend wrote:Afghanistan/Pakistan is a much more volatile place them Yemen, Both countries are surrounded by countries who are in the same situation. Unlike Yemen which is surrounded by SA and Oman

Pakistan is stuck between India to the east, Afghanistan and Iran to west plus Balochi nationals who want their own country). Chinese Muslims/ Central Asian Muslims at the north, who themselves have alot of political problems with their government. Then Pakistan has their own problem as States in Pakistan don't really like each other that much. And Pakistan is one of the most diverse places in the world just like India.

Yemen have also been an example of where terrorists can touch base and have their camps there. Alqaida and not talibans

Saudi don't really engage that much with Yemen, and they have their own problems as well as their king has been in war and has a brother who tries to assasinate him at every possibility. But once and for all they stopped or mostly stopped all these terrorists by swarming their camp and getting rid of them. Problem with Pakistan/Afghanistan is that they don't want outside help to do things in their country, but if they don't want help then surely they should be able to handle it themselves no?? from what i have read seen they haven't made a move yet to eradicate the Talibans. They have to strike the source so that it then would be easier to deal with as a whole

You can't walk into northern pakistan with an army, the US army and Nato haven't been able to contain the Taliban, how do you expect the Pakistani Army to do so. The Whole of Northern Pakistan is a no go area for the Army unless they go full force, due to the terrain even then you can't the millions of caves where people can hide.

And the Pakistan Army has lost more then both Nato and US combined.

i think i understand RWO's point in here but what she's talking about isnt applicable for two closely related reasons. The first being that islam doesnt allow excommunication and the second is the lack of leadership.

In islam one earns the right to be called a muslim if he follows the 5 pillars (believe in god and the prophit, prayer, charity, fasting in ramadan, and pilgrimage) and everything else you do is up to your understanding of the scriptures. This means that every person is held accountable for his own actions and its not up to humans to judge the relationship one has with god.

The Shareia law is not what most people believe it is, it's simply a legal system or a constitution, nothing more and nothing less. These laws are only applicable in an islamic state and their excution is the responsibility of the elected leader. But since there hasnt been a real islamic state (or an elected leader) for the past century, the shareia law is no longer executable and thus it takes a back seat. This of course doesnt mean that muslims shouldnt abide by the rules of their religion, it just means that there isnt any form of leadership that is authorized to force their execution.

With that comes the problem with extremists. Muslims dont have a figurehead like the church to through these people out of the faith, the most we can do is call them out for their mistakes, hell we've been doing that for the past 10 years but who's gonna listen to us ? There simply isnt a single religious organization that two muslims can totally agree about and that effects our credibility in the outside world. We, the everyday muslims, we dont support this mindless violence, and it's a shame coz in today's world the voice of the sane majority is outdone by the actions of the corrupted minority. you know what they say, A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on, so before you judge us look for the truth, it's there, but you need to put a little effort into finding it.

@zizzle

This sounds indeed like a grave problem. I mean if there is no real binding set of laws for everybody to decide what is wrong (and IMO there are not too many basic laws needed - for starters it should be made clear that intentional killing and harming people is an absolute no-go, and stealing too, plus a set of this-worldly punishments and not hoping that in some afterlife there is supposed to be some reckoning as this is not a sufficient determent for wrong-doings), there will be no real way to really separate the good ones from the bad ones in the eyes of the outside observer, as both sides argue they only follow the word of your holy scripture.

I think the time really calls for some Islamic Council of Nicaea where you get some order into all the different flavours of the Islam. After all, it is not that Christianity was always somewhat ordered since the beginning either. ^^ And if you find a proper consensus there, then it would be much easier to get the message across that suicide bombings, terror attacks etc are NOT condoned by your holy scriptures and/or God.

Info: Council of Nicaea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

Oh, btw @halamadrid2

Thing with Christianity is that those who do follow it follow it properly and those who don't don't really engage in anything to do with it, you hardly see a Christian kill somebody because they have misinterpreted something in their holy book

Don't get me started about the Crusades and the witch hunts and the inquisition... In medieval times, Christianity was an extremely violent religion that was used by the people in power to expand their influence and to hold down the poor and weak. Fortunately with the rise of science (albeit there were enough scientists killed, too, for endangering the church's power) and new, critical philosophical ideas, the Enlightenment helped to break the stranglehold of religion in the Western world quite a bit and so the majority of people don't follow the priests blindly anymore or get mortified by the threat of divine punishments in some afterlife.

rwo power wrote:@zizzle

This sounds indeed like a grave problem. I mean if there is no real binding set of laws for everybody to decide what is wrong (and IMO there are not too many basic laws needed - for starters it should be made clear that intentional killing and harming people is an absolute no-go, and stealing too, plus a set of this-worldly punishments and not hoping that in some afterlife there is supposed to be some reckoning as this is not a sufficient determent for wrong-doings), there will be no real way to really separate the good ones from the bad ones in the eyes of the outside observer, as both sides argue they only follow the word of your holy scripture.

I think the time really calls for some Islamic Council of Nicaea where you get some order into all the different flavours of the Islam. After all, it is not that Christianity was always somewhat ordered since the beginning either. ^^ And if you find a proper consensus there, then it would be much easier to get the message across that suicide bombings, terror attacks etc are NOT condoned by your holy scriptures and/or God.

Info: Council of Nicaea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

The basic rules are already there but it's more like there isnt a legal system that could prosecute offenders. This shouldnt be a problem with everyday rules as secular laws are suffecient to maintain order, but when it comes bigger complicated issues like Jihad the whole thing becomes a mess. In Islam self defense is permitted, but like every law there is this permission can be abused when extremists choose to interprut the Quran as they please. This is where a council is needed but unfortunately i dont see it happening anytime soon.

zizzle wrote:The basic rules are already there but it's more like there isnt a legal system that could prosecute offenders. This shouldnt be a problem with everyday rules as secular laws are suffecient to maintain order, but when it comes bigger complicated issues like Jihad the whole thing becomes a mess. In Islam self defense is permitted, but like every law there is this permission can be abused when extremists choose to interprut the Quran as they please. This is where a council is needed but unfortunately i dont see it happening anytime soon.

The problem is that there seem to be quite some regions where the Shariah is replacing secular laws, as I understood. And with the Shariah a set of laws that can be interpreted as strict or in the way the people in power feel like, things are bound to get severely messed up IMO. I mean, in Afghanistan and some other countries, the Shariah is used to condone even stonings, mutilations and whatever. I think there is a real need to set up a unified interpretation nowadays, or you will always find the Islam tainted by the deeds of certain groups who interpret it in a violent way.