Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

by Arquitecto Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:12 pm

Disgusted by the Allen dislike here. When you count he has had paltry minutes as a whole within our club and off of an injury lay-off you would understand how difficult it would be to slot within an unfamiliar role in an unfamiliar formation.

As I state, Rodgers has ironically poorly managed the players he so wanted within his teams, and Allen is a mere victim of it. Watch Allen for Wales outperforming "Superstars" such as Bale and Ramsey on a regular basis for the team.

I'd place him deep over Lucas even considering the latter has been considerably average in even the elementary needs for us.

by RedOranje Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:33 pm

Yes of course, Rodgers is to blame because Allen came back into an established side and got minutes in a role that is a wee bit different (but that he's played before and done well enough in)... why is it so hard to simply accept that Allen's a wee bit rusty and had a momentary loss of composure in a DERBY match?

Why is there ALWAYS the need to blame it all on one person and bash them for it? I honestly don't understand the compulsion to blame someone, anyone, for something that is simply a part of the game.

by Nishankly Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:10 pm

Regardless of his performance, He is probably glad Danny saved his skin, He can amazingly well and end up making that one mistakes that costs the team the result, What's the point? At the end of the day people will talk about the mistake which cost the game.

I had no problem with Allen in that match, But he should have put that in, Thank god we didnt lose.

by Red Alert Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:38 am

Allen was one of the more solid players on the pitch before the miss.

He probably should of squared it to Suarez, but I'm glad he had the balls to take on the shot. And I'm certain Suarez was offside (just) by the time Allen had the shot. He just had to hit the target. He's never been good at shooting though. That game in Gerrard's testimonial where he scored once but could of had 4 goals showed that.

Nishank wrote:Regardless of his performance, He is probably glad Danny saved his skin, He can amazingly well and end up making that one mistakes that costs the team the result, What's the point? At the end of the day people will talk about the mistake which cost the game.

I had no problem with Allen in that match, But he should have put that in, Thank god we didnt lose.

You mean how Gerrard was lucky Mignolet came off his line early and saved Lukaku's shot from a through ball from Pienar? Not the only game Gerrard has made a mistake and it's gone unpunished by the way.

Allen's not to blame. Yes, he should of scored. But to blame him on the performance and result would be very very harsh. Especially as he was quite good before the miss.

by iftikhar Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:39 am

Do you think he should play against Hull, Norwich, WHam and Cardiff!!! We have SEVEN games in December and Gerrerd and Lucas must get some break somewhere.

by Nishankly Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:11 am

Red Alert wrote:
Nishank wrote:Regardless of his performance, He is probably glad Danny saved his skin, He can amazingly well and end up making that one mistakes that costs the team the result, What's the point? At the end of the day people will talk about the mistake which cost the game.

I had no problem with Allen in that match, But he should have put that in, Thank god we didnt lose.
You mean how Gerrard was lucky Mignolet came off his line early and saved Lukaku's shot from a through ball from Pienar? Not the only game Gerrard has made a mistake and it's gone unpunished by the way.

Allen's not to blame. Yes, he should of scored. But to blame him on the performance and result would be very very harsh. Especially as he was quite good before the miss.

Umm, That's basically what i said, But his miss would have give us the breathing space, It cannot be ignored.

by El Jefe Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:14 pm

I think Allen is a decent player, but unless he is really dictating a game I'm not sure there is a place for him in our team.

He doesn't protect the defence, he's not a destroyer, he's not very creative and he isn't a goal threat. At Swansea he was the 2nd of 3 CMs, the role suited him really well. He wasn't required to be brilliant at anything in particular, instead his focus was pressing, recycling possession, linking play and joining the attack when possible. That role doesn't exist in our team so I think he'll struggle to nail down a starting spot.

by Red Alert Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:29 am

^ I agree with that.

He's unlucky he has Steven Gerrard in front of him. But I still do feel he needs to be rotated with Gerrard in the DLP spot. He did well in that position for Swansea.

And I don't want to start a whole other argument with you Jefe, but Rodgers has never played with a destroyer. Doubt he will either.

by Helmer Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:56 pm

http://vimeo.com/81289701

Ok I hope this link works. Allen coming back to his best. I am so hell surprised that I did not see Red Alert's post till now; because I think today for the first time we played less direct and possession based game. So Allen could shine in this system as usual. :bow:

He can be such a massive weapon for us. Frrrack there was a period when wave after wave of attacked were flooding into west Ham's penalty area.

The GOAT is back. Just that now if he can do his best against bigger teams too, we will be back in the business performance wise. BR has a imp decision to make if Gerrard is fit whether to drop Lucas or not hmm

by Art Morte Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:37 pm

Many of you singing his praise lately, but I just don't see it.

Good work rate and he's trying to do the right things on the pitch. But every time you would need a piece of skill from him - whether it's ball control, dribbling, taking a chance or making a key pass - it's just not there. He has zero "ooh, that was nice" moments in his game. Yet his CM role includes getting up there in attack and contributing at least a little there, too, but he just always comes short.

If we could combine Gerrard and Allen we'd have the perfect player for our midfield, but since that cannot be done, I'd really like us to buy a CM to give competition for both of those guys.

by Helmer Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:43 pm

i can just agree on one thing about Allen and that is, his contribution in the final third is just not happening at the moment but it will come.
For me he is playing almost almost at his best, winning cute tackles, interceptions, recycling the ball quickly, carrying the ball forward at times for which no one makes runs behind the defence. Allen the GOAT which you will see in the next game even more :bow:

by Helmer Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:45 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:I think Hendo can surely do that, I will even say he has IQ to do that...i just think he needs to play more in an advanced role and he can surely do it, I am not sure if BR has set him a very rigid frame in which he plays.

by Red Alert Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:19 am

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:
HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:I think Hendo can surely do that, I will even say he has IQ to do that...i just think he needs to play more in an advanced role and he can surely do it, I am not sure if BR has set him a very rigid frame in which he plays.

He needs to play deeper, like he did against Cardiff. hmm

by Art Morte Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:20 pm

Semily out of frustration, this, but I'm getting really fed up with Allen. Again, he is presented with a glorious chance on the 23rd minute, running into the box and receiving a pass with no one putting pressure on him, but his first touch is heavier than Jabba the Hut.

by Red Alert Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:20 am

Art Morte wrote:Semily out of frustration, this, but I'm getting really fed up with Allen. Again, he is presented with a glorious chance on the 23rd minute, running into the box and receiving a pass with no one putting pressure on him, but his first touch is heavier than Jabba the Hut.

You could of put Henderson, Coutinho or any other Liverpool player bar Suarez in that position and they wouldn't have scored, and that's a problem. It was quite an easy ball, yet Allen's poor first touch made it difficult for him and the chance went begging. It is a problem, but it's been a problem I've been crying out since the summer. We need an attacking midfielder or a number 10 for that role.

I'm not a fan of this Lucas-Hendo-Allen midfield because there's no one in it that can actually go forward and attack. It has nothing to do with Allen really. He's being played there as we lack depth.

by Helmer Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:24 am

Allen, hendo and another CAM
OR
Lucas, Hendo and another CAM
I think that will be our best midfield hmm

by DeletedUser#1 Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:43 am

Allen was better than Lucas still.

Allen's pressing and how many times he wins possession back and distrupts opposition attack is very underrrated.

and yes, we do lack an AM specialist, who could also play in CM

by McAgger Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:47 am

At this moment if we drop anyone from that midfield 3 it surely has to be Lucas. Hendo and Allena are playing out of this world. Lucas is doing well also but his loss of athleticism is a real worry at times. His sprinting is my power walking ffs.

In the long run I see us needing both a DM and an AM who could both play CM.

At the moment though either would do.

by Red Alert Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:55 am

Natalie Portman wrote:Allen was better than Lucas still.

Allen's pressing and how many times he wins possession back and distrupts opposition attack is very underrrated.

and yes, we do lack an AM specialist, who could also play in CM

He wasn't better than Lucas though. Watch the game again.

Allen's pressing isn't underrated - he's rated quite fine in that department. Yes he wins the ball back, yes he he pressures the opposition but in the role he's playing he needs to add more to his game.

He's judged on what he does in the final third in the position he plays right now, and he's not doing enough. I'd swap Allen around with Henderson in the next game. As bad as Hendo is in the final third, he atleast has smart movement to draw the defender out and give space for Luis to move into.

by Red Alert Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:03 am

McAgger wrote:At this moment if we drop anyone from that midfield 3 it surely has to be Lucas. Hendo and Allena are playing out of this world. Lucas is doing well also but his loss of athleticism is a real worry at times. His sprinting is my power walking ffs.

In the long run I see us needing both a DM and an AM who could both play CM.

At the moment though either would do.

Lucas is the only one in that midfield trio that knows how to defend. He gives us balance. He's the last person from the names you mentioned that needs to be dropped.

If anyone's to be "dropped" it has to be either Henderson or Allen. They're essentially playing the same role right now. We need someone that can go forward with the ball. I'm still wondering why we bought Luis Alberto if we don't ever play him. If he doesn't play against Hull (doubt he'll play in a big match against Chelsea away from home, well unless we're in a comfortable position) I have huge doubts that he'll play at all. (We have Hull 2 days after Chelsea. Keep in mind this current midfield trio (Lucas-Allen-Hendo) will have just played 3 games in like a week. They need rest.) Especially if we bring another midfielder in the winter window, and Gerrard will be back soon.

And why do people insist we need a CM? We have both Hendo and Allen to play that role. And if we really need to play someone there (if they're both out injured/suspended/tired) we have Stevie...

by Art Morte Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:29 am

Natalie Portman wrote:Allen was better than Lucas still.

If I remember right the opinion in here has been (last season) that Allen cannot do Lucas' role. But personally I think only one of them should play at a time, at least that would be optimal for us, because these are two midfielders who both offer very little in attack and that is limiting us at the moment.

Obviously we've got Gerrard, but his off the ball contribution combined with his current style of dropping very very deep to collect the ball may hinder us in other ways too much.

So I'd still buy a CM to compete with the mentioned trio rather than a CAM who'd be more likely to replace one of our better players up front (Coutinho, Sturridge, Sterling).

by sportsczy Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:39 am

Lucas isn't really defending well though... he gets pushed around too easily these days. Need more of a physical presence at that DM role.

Personally, i'd hit up the Spurs for either Sandro or Capoue.

by Red Alert Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:19 am

Spurs won't sell us Sandro or Capoue. Plus, Capoue joined Spurs like 6 months ago. No chance of getting him.

We need physical presence as a back-up for a plan B. A Diame type of player. Physical presence in the middle. I personally think we should go for Momo Sissoko. Free agent now and all. Loves the club, so will work his socks off. But Rodgers has full faith in his plan A, so I doubt we'll go all out looking for a DM. I don't think people understand the "controlling" role that much. People should read Rodgers comments on what he expects from that role.

Lucas is getting better as each game gets on, the only thing he's struggling with at the moment is fitness. And he's improving in that aspect as well.

He may not be performing at his high standards from couple seasons back (which I'm sure everyone's comparing his performances now too), but he's doing a job none the less. There's nothing to warrant him getting dropped right now.

by Red Alert Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:21 am

Art Morte wrote:
Natalie Portman wrote:Allen was better than Lucas still.

If I remember right the opinion in here has been (last season) that Allen cannot do Lucas' role. But personally I think only one of them should play at a time, at least that would be optimal for us, because these are two midfielders who both offer very little in attack and that is limiting us at the moment.

Obviously we've got Gerrard, but his off the ball contribution combined with his current style of dropping very very deep to collect the ball may hinder us in other ways too much.

So I'd still buy a CM to compete with the mentioned trio rather than a CAM who'd be more likely to replace one of our better players up front (Coutinho, Sturridge, Sterling).

A CAM won't replace anyone from the front trio.

A CAM would play as the "1" in front of the "2". It's what Allen's playing right now. It's the advanced midfielder, pushing up, closing down, but would actually offer something going forward. It would also help with the fluidity of the team by offering that link up between midfield and attack in a natural flow.

We don't need a CM. We have too many.

by sportsczy Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:30 am

The thing is, Liverpool is legitimately trying to go for a top 3 spot if not win the EPL... so you can't have a bunch of players that are just "OK" in the midfield. That will come back and bite you in the arse. Out of all the team competing for the top 5 spots, Liverpool has the worse midfield for me. Spurs are under-performing there... but their talent is better.

Need to add one quality player there in the winter.

by Red Alert Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:13 pm

Our midfield's not even that bad. The problem with our midfield has been that we're missing oneplayer in it. Get an attacking minded player in (a Hamsik, a Lampard, just anyone that has goals in them and can both support the attack AND midfield) and we'll legitimately fight for a spot higher than the top 3. We're one (maybe two) marquee signings from fighting for the league. A CAM is one of those positions that are desperately needed.

Lucas is slowly regaining form, Henderson continues to develop at a fine rate, Gerrard has been ruled out by majority of Liverpool fans and I have no reason why, the reason our midfield has been 'dominant' in the last few games isn't because Gerrard's been injured, it's because we've gone back to "death by football". It was a tactical switch. We went from playing a stupid counter-attacking system where we lost more points than we gained back to a style that suits the team / everything this Liverpool team stands for. The midfield is only going to get better. Keep in mind we have limited depth, and the festive period would of had an affect on Allen, Lucas and Hendo.

The only reason we conceded the second goal against City (from Negredo's counter) was because of Allen's "mistake" in the final third. It wasn't really a mistake either. It was just poor composure / lack of experience / lack of talent to play in the final third. We need to improve that.

This has nothing to do with Allen as a player. It's just he and Hendo play the same role, we can't afford to do that.

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