US Immigration discussion thread

[McLewis]

A continuation from what started in the the International Friendlies thread between myself, Rsinatra and Sportsczy.

We were talking about the US's stance towards immigrations, legal and illegal.

He's what was said so far:

You guys would never make it in the US with these nationality discussions lol. In the US, they welcome you as long as you're a productive person and haven't broken the law. It's all about open opportunities to everyone at the core... of course, reality is not as smooth as i make it sound lol.

But you can become a US citizen at age 20, 25, 30, etc and play for the US Basketball team in the olympics and nobody would think much about it. Just the way people think. Being American is embracing a set of values, nothing to do with where you're born or brought up.

Let's ask the Mexicans what they think of your country's openness. Hell, let's ask all Latin Americans. I remember that, right before I (legally) lived in the US nearly a decade ago, I met a girl at the American consulate in Brazil, who couldn't get a visa to visit Disney, because she was Brazilian and couldn't prove that she wasn't going to turn into an illegal immigrant. So dont' come bragging about how open the US welcoming all as long as they're hardworkers.

Well it does stand to reason that if you wish to enter the US, you need to demonstrate that you intend to come here legally. Most Mexicans, Central Americans, and South Americans have a tough time with this because they are crossing our borders illegally and more often than not, do not show any intention of becoming legal citizens or at least following the process for staying here temporarily. That is not at all fair to the immigrants that actually do go through the legal immigration process to become lawful US citizens. It's those people that I think Sport was referring to.

Exactly McLewis.

Rsinatra's reply along with Sportsczy's:

Many of these illegal immigrants, if not most of them, did try to go there through the legal immigration process, but were rejected because of where they were from. The US is very open to other so-called "First World" countries, of course, but when it comes to Latin Americans, they make it nearly impossible. Not that it is any easier to get a permanent visa in Europe, for instance. Rich countries just don't want open their arms for poor immigrants, that's all.

My father had a job offer from the US, a place to stay, I don't know how many letters proving that he was going to work there, and yet we were treated like criminals desperately trying to prove we were innocents at the American consulate. I will not forget my his frustration after his first interview there. At the end we got our permits, thanks to one of his friends who worked there and put in a good word for us.

And what about the girl I've mentioned? She was crying like a baby because she just wanted to visit Disney, and just needed a tourist visa, but at the American consulates (in Brazil) this is the rule: you are guilty, until you can prove the opposite. I wouldn't call that openness. Obviously there has to be a control on immigration, but not prejudice. I won't forget the way I saw people being treated on the days I went there.

I did go on to live 2 very good years in the US and I liked it very much, was very grateful, and in fact I would've stayed longer if it had been up to me (at the time I was still underage), but my parents got a better offer in Brazil.

It's possible that the common US citizen is not aware of these difficulties. They think we just decide to go through the desert because we like it. I don't even have to mention that the state in which many Latin American countries find themselves in today is also largely due to former dictatorships, which the US shamelessly (and sometimes violently) helped installing, that slowed down our progress and so on. So, talk about fair.



SO ANYWAY, I think that proportionally there as many American people who would think these things about athletes not born in US as there as there Europeans.

Sport's reply -

rsinatra... Residency is a lot like applying to University. It's a competitive process. Visas are just a matter of risk management.

The US cannot and should just accept everybody. I was an immigrant and i accepted that.

I went thru the process and this was back when there was a Iranian hostage crisis in the 80s. I had a french passport but i was still half Iranian. There were no warm feelings between the Iranians and Americans despite my circumstances. And the world was much less racially tolerant back then. It took me 6 years to establish residency and then get citizenship. Granted, I wasn't in a rush. But the process was very intense and some if it very uncomfortable. At the beginning, they made me work like crazy. I actually had to go back to France for 3 months. But i got it... they wanted to see if i was willing to fight for the privilege.

Bottom line is that it's very hard. It's meant to be very hard. The US wants to know that you're really interested in becoming American in your heart. That's really the point of the whole thing.

Getting a visa, residency and citizenship is a privilege, not a right. That's the thing to remember. It's by no means guaranteed.

So that's where we are right now. Let's continue on with this. I'll reply to Rsinatra when time allows. What are everyone else's thoughts on this topic?

[Sushi Master]

I have many family members who would be living in squalor if it weren't for the US' flexible immigration laws. My grandmother became a citizen at like age 50, FFS. My aunt applied residency through my grandmother's citizenship, and was awarded residency: all legal and through no loopholes.

If you mean guys who jump off a boat or plane and find it extremely hard to do it totally "legal", I know plenty of guys who live well, they just work hard and stay out of trouble.

It's ironic slagging on the country's immigration laws when it historically grew through immigration. I will admit it's much tougher nowadays, sure.

That they have historically raped us in the ass while exploiting our resources is another matter entirely

[halamadrid2]

well its worse in England, here people get in by lorries and pretend they have lost their passport when the immigration officers see them, they have to be released on bail since they are not allowed to be in custody for more than a couple of hours, what do they do, do you think??? they disappear, well it didn't help that the government during last summer never did proper checks on half the boarder agencies

i mean if they are going to be this lenient, there will always be an influx of immigrants into countries, once they sort out a proper law that people cant exploit through loop holes, it will stop

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