Re: Zinedine Zidane

by Adit Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:39 pm

To be fair I would even play Lucas Vasquez ahead of Ronaldo let alone Hazard. He is having negetive impact on the team clearly. Even yesterday, look at all those crosses coming from Marcelo's side, it was their FB crossing. Nothing midfielders and Marcelo can do... The midfielders covering the wings are just plain wrong tactics. There is a video of Ramos asking Ronaldo to help the team tracking back and he says he can't.

Zidane has the right intentions. Possession football, Play the ball out of back at every cost, defend as a team, stay in shape.

Only CR was so out of sync with the team. 10 shots my goodness. Then countless turnovers that started bunch of counters. His every other pass is getting intercepted with ease nowadays. I am praying every day for PSG to come and take him. James instead of CR would make our game allot better.

by sportsczy Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:52 pm

Zidane is implying that Bale's primary responsibility is to cover his wing defensively and offensively... he can cut in when another player goes wide in his zone, like CR did on one of his goals, or when the ball is one the opposite wing. But short of that, he needs to maintain tactical discipline. You can't have players running around haphazardly and break the shape.

He's preaching structure and team effort.

by Mr Nick09 Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:05 pm

The fact that i was looking for Benzema on that heat map posted above is not normal. ffs, i was literally counting how many dots were on that map, and then it hit me that Benzema was in CR shadow rofl

I recall how in Valencia we had no offense from that side all game because Kovacic was worried about keeping shape and Marcelo was careful about going up with Cancelo on his side. THen in second half Benitez probably told CR to stay left and we had something like 10-15 minutes domination just because all players were where they were supposed to be. And it wasnt that Benitez had something against CR, but since he cant force him left, he had to sub in Vasquez to have Vasquez and Bale occupy wide positions, which almost always generated good offense late in games.

CR will continue being out of sync because he simply cant help himself but to go centrally now. Zidane's real luck will be Madrid selling CR and giving him chance to have 11 guys doing what he wants.

And Credit to Bale again, he is truly playing well, i mean he actually dribbles and control the ball cleanly nowadays, that's pretty impressive

by Mamad Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:00 pm

Ronaldo is a selfish twat. still remembering him not celebrating Ramoses goal in CL final and instead when he scores a meaningless goal at the end he celebrates like an idiot.

by halamadrid2 Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:24 pm

Most big teams have one entitled guy in them. We are no different

My critiscm of Ronaldo are mainly that he shoots from pretty much anywhere, complains when someone takes a shot and complains when somebody doesnt reach his wayward pass. Ronaldo has never defended in his Madrid career. Maybe there was a 2 game period when he did it under Mou before he quit. What's the difference between now and then?? Xabi used to cover him back then, Kroos as cool as he is is alittle lazy on ocassions too to get back and cover. But its more to do with the damage this team has taken tactically. There was alot of times against Depor where the defenders attempted to swap positions after switching it first but then opting not to. There is still alot to be done defensively and Ronaldo isnt the problem because the idea is to have 2 banks of 4 when defending. If crosses where coming from Marcelo's side it is because He and Isco werent doing a good job defensively.

As i said before Ronaldo is far from perfect but he is not a problem

Alot of people want us to not concede chances but thats never going to happen because we dont play with a CDM so we are bound to give up chances every now and again. But we have to see clear lines when defending and stay compact. In fact i think the clearest chances Depor had yesterday were from spaces left open by Modric who left his position to press when he shouldn't

by El Blanco Madridista Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:31 pm

Ronaldo is a goal-machine, an extraordinary one, but his selfishnes on the ball and his lack of tactical discipline are the main reasons why we should rid ourselves of him. His inability (or unwillingness, if you will) to track back allows our opponends a lot of space on that left flank, and you can't afford that. But let's focus a bit on the former too: I can't keep track of the scoring chances he has ruined with his lack of teamwork. Being 4 against 2 on the break and he decides to shoot from distance.

by Doc Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:41 pm

Like Hala mentioned, when Benz and Bale weren't being all that together, the team really benefited from Ronaldo's goals. Now that everything has even out, Ronaldo is definitely a hindrance which, sadly, can't be rectified. I'm not Chad who is too much in his own mind to consider anything other than Ronaldo being the problem but I think his time at the club should come to an end after this season.

Also, the actual problem stems from the reason we bought him to begin with.

by sportsczy Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:05 pm

The issue when Benz/Bale didn't work was twofold:
- Bale was in horrible for and was a mini-CR in terms of selfishness then.
- The team was so CR centric. You can't just turn on a switch and ask the others to play the alpha role suddenly. It's doesn't work like that.

The trophy count under CR is all the proof you need. Never ever been a fan of his.

by Mr Nick09 Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:24 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:Most big teams have one entitled guy in them. We are no different

most big teams who have actually on big in europe lately, have an entitled guy that still works way harder than ronaldo and his tactically disciplined. CR is not

by The Demon of Carthage Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:39 pm

But is it really down to Ronaldo being undisciplined or Z exempting him from it?
Zinedine Zidane - Page 7 14524210

by chad4401 Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:49 pm

@doc cr goals are worthless to me, since they only serve to win him trophies, go blame free for failing to turn up cause stadpadding, now benz and bale are trying to decide games themselves, cr looks very frustrated instead of relieved Laughing

, im not saying he is the only problem(ramos), he is just the main one, no amount of useless goals can change that for me.

by Adit Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:43 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:But is it really down to Ronaldo being undisciplined or Z exempting him from it?

Why would Zidane have everyone track back but leave his left winger of all people? Doesn't make sense.

You can ask CF to stay with the CBs but left winger not tracking the FB is a whole new matter.

Zidane in his presser said we can't have one two or three players not defending. He meant all of BBC and Bale and Benzema have improved in positive direction.

CR still being him... Decides he would rather conserve energy for counter.. Jogging.

He is by far the biggest problem to this team.

by Adit Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:47 pm

The idea isn't two banks of four. That was Ancelotti's idea. Zidane's idea is collective ball winning, everybody defends... I wear I saw at some point we made the field small with the help of isco and Bale( when CR played RW ). That is the idea. CR choosing to disrupting the shape and deciding four people are enough is on him, not tactics.

by Doc Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:16 pm

Wait, you guys got a complete idea of what Zidane wants or is this based on his Castilla team as well?

by Mr Nick09 Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:23 pm

i swear you guys are making such tactical leaps out of one game, im just like scratch

can we see 10 games of zidane then see what's consistent, making such statements early usually leads to bending reality moving forward to make it fit your theory...just saying

by sportsczy Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:36 pm

Doc wrote:Wait, you guys got a complete idea of what Zidane wants or is this based on his Castilla team as well?

I know Nick doesn't agree with me but the proof is in the pudding as they say.

Zidane stayed consistent with the A team's tactics as much as possible in Castilla. He ran a 433 last season, but went to a 4231 in this one. Now at Madrid, he's imposing his preferred style... which is the 433 obviously.

At Castilla, the goal is more to instill professionalism, develop players, have guys prepared if Madrid needs them... and lastly, winning. You would like all of it obviously; but reality is something different when you have 70% turnover every season and the A squad keeps changing managers. Hard to be consistent.

So i wouldn't take any lessons from Zidane tactically there.

What i would point to, however, are the coaches he chose to visit as part of his training for the French coaching licence. They were:
- Pep Guardiola at Bayern
- Bielsa at OM
- Christian Gourcuff for Algeria NT
- Laurent Blanc at PSG
- Jorge Sampaoli for Chile NT

These are the 5 he picked. That will give you an indication of what he's trying to do.

by Turok_TTZ Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:06 am

sportsczy wrote:
Doc wrote:Wait, you guys got a complete idea of what Zidane wants or is this based on his Castilla team as well?

I know Nick doesn't agree with me but the proof is in the pudding as they say.

Zidane stayed consistent with the A team's tactics as much as possible in Castilla. He ran a 433 last season, but went to a 4231 in this one. Now at Madrid, he's imposing his preferred style... which is the 433 obviously.

At Castilla, the goal is more to instill professionalism, develop players, have guys prepared if Madrid needs them... and lastly, winning. You would like all of it obviously; but reality is something different when you have 70% turnover every season and the A squad keeps changing managers. Hard to be consistent.

So i wouldn't take any lessons from Zidane tactically there.

What i would point to, however, are the coaches he chose to visit as part of his training for the French coaching licence. They were:
- Pep Guardiola at Bayern
- Bielsa at OM
- Christian Gourcuff for Algeria NT
- Laurent Blanc at PSG
- Jorge Sampaoli for Chile NT

These are the 5 he picked. That will give you an indication of what he's trying to do.

Do not forget he shadowed two of the most important peeps in Mourinho and Carlo. Zidane has had much learning/reference material to work with.

Obviously it's too soon to truly see what Zidane has in store for us but from what little I've seen, I see Zidane using Carlo ideals as foundation and that is a great way to build something.

by titosantill Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:29 am

i kinda agree with nick. it was a great debut and a good reception. the fans really got into it, and i love that. i remember when dortmund fans created more buzz at the bernabeu than we did. but we need to let the man manage some games before we reach conclusions on his tactics...that's not a bad thing, its not a criticism. its one game, unless you've maybe followed his castilla coaching and then yesterday's game mirrored that, its too early to reach any conclusion on what he wants and how he wants to get it. and even for those who followed his castilla stint, the team and our opponents are much different, so its still too early. we'll be able to make comparisons as games go on, and we meet different kinds of opponents

by chad4401 Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:41 am

if zidane doesn't win anything this or even next season, i wouldn't really mind as long what he is trying to do, is heading in the right direction and the team can off build off it, if the team can stick to doing this for the remainder of the season, that a solid foundation to carry into next season.

by Perucho21 Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:11 am

Agree tito I feel some of you are going a but overboard with the win over Deportivo. It was great and all but it's a home many expected us to win. We are still very much behind Atletico and Barca in the league.

by Adit Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:16 am

Doc wrote:Wait, you guys got a complete idea of what Zidane wants or is this based on his Castilla team as well?

I didn't say I got complete idea of what zidane wants. If you read his press conference he clearly said he can't afford one or two players not defending.Comparing that to Ancelotti's BBC don't need to defend comments it's obvious that Zidane wants every one to defend. Now some players may not play according to his instruction, namely Ronaldo , it doesn't mean he has given Ronaldo a free pass or his idea is 442... It just means some players bleeps it up.

by Adit Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:37 am

There is a reason why sacked by Madrid is no problem for Managers resume. That's because what actually happens on the pitch does not really reflect what the manager wants from v his players. Pretty sure 424 is not what Benitez wanted but ended up practically because some players decided the tactics themselves.

by sportsczy Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:00 am

Adit wrote:There is a reason why sacked by Madrid is no problem for Managers resume. That's because what actually happens on the pitch does not really reflect what the manager wants from v his players. Pretty sure 424 is not what Benitez wanted but ended up practically because some players decided the tactics themselves.

He wanted a 4231. But here's the thing... how can you expect to get that kind of shape with this roster? At least with a 433 or a 442, you have a fighting chance to make it work. Neither Bale nor Ronaldo want to be wingers.

That's the big challenge for Zidane btw. He's demanding that Bale become a winger and also demanding that Benzema cover CR's lack of defense. I don't think it's a problem for benzema.... but Bale is a bit of a diva. Will he rebel?

The way he's doing it is smart though from what i gathered from the french media... he's selling the squad on his philosophy and, by doing so, he's making the squad hold their teammates accountable as well. He will only step in if the squad isn't able to reign in an individual. He learned that from Carlo. The difference with Carlo is that he's making his intentions clear in the media... a bit more confrontational.

We'll see how it goes.

by shadexticos Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:32 am

I'm Laughing here watching you guys criticize Ronaldo this much. I remember when this was me. you guys said the criticism was justified but he wasnt as bad as i made him sound and i also over-criticized him. No amount of criticism is too much for that egoistic egotist.
We will be formidable without him.
No doubt, he upped his game against deportivo and showed some willingness to take on players but his obsession is irritating. He gets angry when his teammates score or dont give him an accurate pass, as if he doesnt misplace 50% of his passes.
I hate him for madrid.
People talk about how he draws players to himself, but i also see 2 players marking Jese, 2 to 3 players making Bale.
He must go!!!!!
I dont care who replaces him - Jese, vasquez, cheryshev, Hazard, Just anyone.
Regardless, i hope he steps up till the end of the season and ends on a high, for the sake of madrid and not for himself. I dont care about him.

by football10 Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:30 am

by Kick Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:27 am

football10 wrote:

There is no need for this to be posted here.

Do not do it again.

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