Re: Who are the most hyped players on this board?

[Doc]

It’s not addressed to you specifically.
I just see some kind of turmoil in the forum’s Madrid ranks regarding the two players.

Anyway…

There are guys who support Higuain and others who support Benzema and both try their very best to put one striker over the other by talking about the other's short comings. It's actually really fun to be honest.

[Pedram]

Excuse after excuse, why he was benched ? because he didn't perform and Higuain proved him that with that performance he was giving he won't be a starter. don't bring coach excuse because Pellegrini and Mourinho both prefer those player that give their maximum so except Mou giving advice to Benzema, there wasn't so much difference between them, i remember Mou once saying "we need to start training at 10:00 because when we arrive at 09:00 he (Benzema) is asleep" so how can you expect from a coach to support a player that do not want to work hard. middle of the second season after month of getting advice from Mou, Zidane and Blanc he finally found himself, however i can assure you if Higuain wasn't injured he couldn't take his spot. even when he had no challenger and there was no pressure he still couldn't perform well for a period of time. this is the story of him, he must be grateful that Higuain got injured, this was a chance that if he missed it he wouldn't have been here by now.

I agree that we can't change his personality but he wasn't that shy at Lyon. he was constantly scoring for them and he had no desire to pass the ball to anyone. he need to know he's a striker and an striker's job is to score. doesn't matter if a Ronaldo is at the team. Neymar may not be able to play like a superstar but i at least expect from him to fight for his place. i don't like the mentality that Benzema had in his first season. if he try hard like Di Maria and others, i'll have no problem.

Excuses? lol, im just reasoning what happened, im not finding excuses for him, there is a fine line between the two. Already admitted he was poor, he didnt deserve to start over higuain. Simple truth is that flair players sometimes need rhythm and reduced playing time can be a detriment to their game. So not playing didnt help him, specially when he was lacking discipline. It's well documented he didnt have the work ethic a pro footballer should have, but he came around didnt he?

Let's not forget that HIguain spent years in Madrid before performing the way he did. He wasnt so great before himself. He needed to adapt to the group and life in Madrid. Only difference is that nobody cared, or at least, not as much as we did for Benzema. That's sound a lot like what Benzema went through, only without the drama.


Coach excuse? hmm, do you know why a couple of the players we bought in the past ended leaving after a season or two and went on to perform in other teams? because there was no strategic planning, and most of those buys were impulse signings made by the management. As with Pelle, we bought players out of the urge of Perez to bring stars in Madrid, with 0 concern for the coach, and it ended up not working so well. Pelle got players the board threw at him, as opposed to players he envisioned for his tactic. I can tell you, he would have signed Silva before even looking at Kaka, he wouldnt have sold Sneijder for example, because in a 4222, having silva-sneijder behind ronaldo-higgy is awfully sexy.

So it makes a difference. The way a coach can transition a player he knows and required within his tactic and his gameplan. It makes a HUGE difference when Mourinho personally hand picks Di Maria and Ozil to play for him, and when Benzema is thrown at Pelle. The coaching isnt the same, Mourinho already had envisionned the way he wanted his design to work and just coached the players into it, taking into account their personalities. While pelle had to compose with what he had and players he didnt necessarily know or didnt fit his tactic. Frankly, this is hardly an excuse, examples are plenty out there, they threw Leon on Mou and look what happened, kid got exiled.

As for the IF Argument, well, if it wasnt for RVN getting injured, maybe HIguain would still be a scrub; IF it wasnt for injuries, Raul and Casillas wouldnt have started for Madrid the way they did, and their careers could have been different. Football is land of opportunity, that's the way it is. IF arguments do not matter really, it's all about what you do when you get a chance.

Change impacts people differently, this is something you need to understand. He grew up in Lyon, went through the academy up to the first team, he was home. Going to Real Madrid at 21 for 35M is an enormous amount of pressure for a young player, and all do not deal with pressure the same way. He didnt adapt well in his first season here, we went over it already, but he turned the corner.

That was because of himself, he could have more matches and goals if he had worked harder. he came around, right, but when there was no pressure for him. he couldn't challenge Higuain at all. it took him 2 years to find himself. Higuain's case was much different, he wasn't supposed to be our first choice CF, we bought him for 13m and much lesser wage comparing to what we pay for Benzema. of course nobody would blame him because we didn't expect him to score ton of goals for us. he has been brought as a part of future, just like Marcelo, you can see this now, both of them are matured now and playing amongst other Flo's signing.

I'm not talking about the way Madrid's management was before Mourinho. I'm talking about what every coach expect from a player. why would Pelle don't want a young talented striker ? you're talking about it like if Pelle didn't want to have Benzema in his squad, it isn't true actually Pelle was the first person to say he needs a WC squad to compete with Barcelona, he didn't say what players he wants, but he always has been like this, he isn't like Wenger, Fergi or other English managers. Benzema has been brought to be our first choice CF because both Flo and Pelle had no trust in Higuain, despite all the crucial goals he has scored for us during the Calderon's era.

So it's like this, doesn't matter how Benzema came in, even if Fergusen had him he would've been benched by this performance, because every coach expect from his players to work hard, to not be lazy. you say Higuain wouldn't have been starter if RVN wasn't injured, that's a pure excuse IMO. because you try to compare Higuain, Casillas situation to Benz situation. this is a complete different story and i don't mind explaining this because of the obviousness.

[Lord Awesome]

Ronaldinho.

Chicharito (though not so much now :sigh:)

Messi & Ronaldo

Abate

[Mr Nick09]

That was because of himself, he could have more matches and goals if he had worked harder. he came around, right, but when there was no pressure for him. he couldn't challenge Higuain at all. it took him 2 years to find himself. Higuain's case was much different, he wasn't supposed to be our first choice CF, we bought him for 13m and much lesser wage comparing to what we pay for Benzema. of course nobody would blame him because we didn't expect him to score ton of goals for us. he has been brought as a part of future, just like Marcelo, you can see this now, both of them are matured now and playing amongst other Flo's signing.

I'm not talking about the way Madrid's management was before Mourinho. I'm talking about what every coach expect from a player. why would Pelle don't want a young talented striker ? you're talking about it like if Pelle didn't want to have Benzema in his squad, it isn't true actually Pelle was the first person to say he needs a WC squad to compete with Barcelona, he didn't say what players he wants, but he always has been like this, he isn't like Wenger, Fergi or other English managers. Benzema has been brought to be our first choice CF because both Flo and Pelle had no trust in Higuain, despite all the crucial goals he has scored for us during the Calderon's era.

So it's like this, doesn't matter how Benzema came in, even if Fergusen had him he would've been benched by this performance, because every coach expect from his players to work hard, to not be lazy. you say Higuain wouldn't have been starter if RVN wasn't injured, that's a pure excuse IMO. because you try to compare Higuain, Casillas situation to Benz situation. this is a complete different story and i don't mind explaining this because of the obviousness.

You like beating a dead horse dont you? his first season was horrendous, at every single level, nothing good came out of it. HIguain had different circumstances, but in truth, they went through a similar adapting process, difference being the level of reputation and media attention both players received.

We bought Higuain after he exploded in Argentina, he came at the club to develop into a forward, but he didnt have the achievements or reputation Benzema garnered in Europe, there is the difference. But for a while many were wondering If he was the right choice, i recall because even i was wondering about it. Zealous can tell you about how Marca ran a campaign to get him out of the squad, the way they pushed for Neymar all summer long.

None of those kids have matured yet. They are still kids, you do not mature at 23 in football. So technically, signing players at 19 or 21 yo is the same, they are projects for the future, only difference is that the kid at 21 might be ready to make a more direct impact than you could have expected from a 19yo. Benzema was also bought to be a project, no different from Higuain or Marcelo, but we knew he could make immediate contribution. It's time to put aside the big transfer value and the media hype, we fans ought the players at least that much, it's common sense.

You completely went through my post, sadly. I'm not arguing whether Pelle wanted Benzema or not, i made the case that, all things being equal, coaching can be more or less effective from one player to the next, if they are handpicked by the coach himself. Ozil and Di Maria for ex, were picked by Mourinho, so it's not a surprise that they adapted well within mourinho's group, he knew why he went for them, what qualities they had, and how well they would fit in his system. While Benzema might not have benefited from the same attention with Pelle. He is a player Perez went and bought for the coach to use, so individual coaching is extremely different. It's one of the factor that impacts how fast a player can adapt to a new group, new team, new system. At a pure tactical level, i can argue that Benzema was being restricted in his role in Madrid, Ronaldo had all the freedom, and Benzema was supposed to poach like Higuain. It's clearly not his game, just another factor that influences one's adaptation.

Pelle isnt the kind of coach to buy players just because they are stars, he looks for very specific skillsets to work with, thus are the requirements of his 4222, or his coaching philosophy. He is the kind of coach to say no to stars like Kaka and sign Silva because he is simply a better fit. Pedro Leon is a guy Valdano signed for depth, Mourinho diidnt scout him, and look what happened to him. First game and mou was complaining about his discipline. Like Sahin for ex, i can tell you at so many levels why he is a fit for Mourinho, subtle things, because i have watched him a lot.

I dont know how i can make this point more obvious. Again, all things being equal, coaching might vary greatly. It's not an excuse for how badly Karim behaved, but my point was that even in his difficult time in Madrid, he might not have benefited from good coaching. Wasnt Pelle blasted for being a poor man manager as well...?

Pelle didnt want HIguain? where did you get that from? Pelle wasnt consulted once during the recruiting process. Signing stars were part of the reelection campaign of Perez. The target was Villa, not Benzema. Actually, looking closely, he tried to reproduce what he did in his first campaign: Zidane>Kaka, Figo>Ronaldo, ROnaldo>Benzema, Alonso was going to partner Lass etc... that's how retarded it was.

I like this kind of thread so i can kill the fallacies and nonsensical argument i see too often on our board. Benzema wasnt signed to become the "first choice CF". He was signed to buff up our attacking force, as RVN and Raul were fading away. Superb talent who had made a mark in europe and who was going to partner Gonzalo higuain in Real Madrid in the future. Real Madrid had long had a 2 strikers system that the board in his infinite idiocy wanted to carry on: Raul-Morientes, Raul-Ronaldo, Raul-Nistelrooy, Raul-Higuain, Benzema-HIguain. See how it went, that's the plan they had, following the tradition, and it was actually fitting with Pelle's policy to play 2 forwards. Only things went wrong, Benzema took time to adapt, Ronaldo cant play in a box midfield, so he naturally took up benzema's spot in attack, it became Ronaldo-Higuain, and the competition turned into Higuain vs Benzema. That's what you get for not consulting your manager before making signings. Football evolves, and now most play a 1 CF formation, as Mourinho, so things didnt really change after, same competition between both kids.

you just keep on repeating the same points. Benzema's work ethic was horrendous, we know that already. He was complecent, went through an awful time moving away from France and so on and so on. Nice double standards buddy. So Benzema is lucky Higuain got injured, but HIguain isnt lucky RVN got injured? what, higuain was going to miraculously bench Van Gool the machine? both were on the bench, because they were not good enough to start, and got their chance for major playing time when the main man went out. as simple as that, why make a big deal out of it?

[Pedram]

You like beating a dead horse dont you? his first season was horrendous, at every single level, nothing good came out of it. HIguain had different circumstances, but in truth, they went through a similar adapting process, difference being the level of reputation and media attention both players received.

You already answered it yourself. Benzema was a victim of his own reputation while for Higuain there was no pressure and on one expected from him to be our first choice CF. so much difference you see ?

We bought Higuain after he exploded in Argentina, he came at the club to develop into a forward, but he didnt have the achievements or reputation Benzema garnered in Europe, there is the difference. But for a while many were wondering If he was the right choice, i recall because even i was wondering about it. Zealous can tell you about how Marca ran a campaign to get him out of the squad, the way they pushed for Neymar all summer long.

Everyone knows Marca is just a newspaper that loves selling paper. they might be pro Madrid but their first intention is to sell paper. they don't care about us anyway, they use us as a attention seeking factor. so Madrid fans should not take Marca seriously. many had doubt about Higuain ? well he proved them they think wrong about him. this is a personality that every professional player should have. you must be strong enough to cope with pressure. you should only focus on yourself. once you see yourself as a footballer your only job is think about football.

You completely went through my post, sadly. I'm not arguing whether Pelle wanted Benzema or not, i made the case that, all things being equal, coaching can be more or less effective from one player to the next, if they are handpicked by the coach himself. Ozil and Di Maria for ex, were picked by Mourinho, so it's not a surprise that they adapted well within mourinho's group, he knew why he went for them, what qualities they had, and how well they would fit in his system. While Benzema might not have benefited from the same attention with Pelle. He is a player Perez went and bought for the coach to use, so individual coaching is extremely different. It's one of the factor that impacts how fast a player can adapt to a new group, new team, new system. At a pure tactical level, i can argue that Benzema was being restricted in his role in Madrid, Ronaldo had all the freedom, and Benzema was supposed to poach like Higuain. It's clearly not his game, just another factor that influences one's adaptation.

I'm saying something and you replay something else. look my point is that coaches are no different in term of using their players. perhaps if Benzema had worked hard he would've been Pelle's first choice CF but it didn't happen. so what you expected from Pelle to do ? we can suppose that Pelle didn't like Benzema but he couldn't say anything if Benzema showed him that what he's capable of. Pelle had no personal problem with him. he just prefered the player that give his 100 % when playing. coaches always prefer the focused players. don't make a big deal of it.

I dont know how i can make this point more obvious. Again, all things being equal, coaching might vary greatly. It's not an excuse for how badly Karim behaved, but my point was that even in his difficult time in Madrid, he might not have benefited from good coaching. Wasnt Pelle blasted for being a poor man manager as well...?

You expected from Pelle to babysit Benzema but he couldn't care less about it. Mourinho however tried to change him a bit, though Mourinho's words was sometimes harsh.

Pelle didnt want HIguain? where did you get that from? Pelle wasnt consulted once during the recruiting process. Signing stars were part of the reelection campaign of Perez. The target was Villa, not Benzema.

LOL i've never said Pelle didn't want him. don't try to misinterpret what i'm saying. i've said Flo had no trust in him and felt he need to require a new CF which was uneeded IMO. Higuain was already WC before he takes charge of Real Madrid. the only point i get from this is that he didn't want to see a Calderon's signing being in our starting 11 except Marcelo.

I like this kind of thread so i can kill the fallacies and nonsensical argument i see too often on our board. Benzema wasnt signed to become the "first choice CF". He was signed to buff up our attacking force, as RVN and Raul were fading away. Superb talent who had made a mark in europe and who was going to partner Gonzalo higuain in Real Madrid in the future. Real Madrid had long had a 2 strikers system that the board in his infinite idiocy wanted to carry on: Raul-Morientes, Raul-Ronaldo, Raul-Nistelrooy, Raul-Higuain, Benzema-HIguain. See how it went, that's the plan they had, following the tradition, and it was actually fitting with Pelle's policy to play 2 forwards. Only things went wrong, Benzema took time to adapt, Ronaldo cant play in a box midfield, so he naturally took up benzema's spot in attack, and the competition turned into Higuain vs Benzema. That's what you get for not consulting your manager before making signings. Football evolves, and now most play a 1 CF formation, as Mourinho, so things didnt really change after, same competition between both kids.

There is no fallacy in what i'm saying. all i see from you is quoting me and answering it with your own view regardless of what i've said. you change my word and use it against me. Benzema has been brought to be our first choice CF and you can't deny it. he was our first choice CF for 7 straight weeks but then his performance disappointed Pelle and he needed to bench him. if Benzema answered his trust with better performance there was no way he'd bench him. i mean no way, don't say Higuain was our first choice because if it was the story Perez wouldn't have bought BENZEMA to be Higuain's cover. it's a laughable theory at best. about the 2 man forward line up i can assure you that the plan wasn't to play Higuain and Benzema beside each other, Higuain was a cover for Ronaldo and Benzema. because we've bought Ronaldo to play behind one of them. Ronaldo as (SS) and Higuain/Benz as (CF).

you just keep on repeating the same points. Benzema's work ethic was horrendous, we know that already. He was complecent, went through an awful time moving away from France and so on and so on. Nice double standards buddy. So Benzema is lucky Higuain got injured, but HIguain isnt lucky RVN got injured? what, higuain was going to miraculously bench Van Gool the machine? both were on the bench, because they were not good enough to start, and got their chance for major playing time when the main man went out. as simple as that, why make a big deal out of it?

Again i see you repeat yourself without thinking about what i've said. typical Nick how can i say to you that Higuain wasn't supposed to take RVN or Raul's spot on the team. he was just a cover for those players. because one was injury prone and the other on was already at decline. beside it he was also a part of Madrid's future team. Benz's situation was a whole different story, if you don't want to accept it, it isn't my problem.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Benzema and Marcelo

[Ganso]

people saying abate and podolski

also Marcelo was a top 3 LBs last season,haters gon hate

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

people saying abate and podolski

also Marcelo was a top 3 LBs last season,haters gon hate

And Leighton Baines is a WC leftback

[guest7]

people saying abate and podolski

also Marcelo was a top 3 LBs last season,haters gon hate

And Leighton Baines is a WC leftback

dunno how he is but Marcelo is

[Luca]

Abate for sure

[Senor Penguin]

Benzema, Liverpool F.C. squad, EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Malaga C.F. squad, Del Nido, Lionel Bieber, Cristina Ronaldiva, Cyberman, FC Barcelona de la UEFA squad.

[Magricos]

funny thing is some people on the forum seem to be serious about Abate.

[Mr Nick09]

You already answered it yourself. Benzema was a victim of his own reputation while for Higuain there was no pressure and on one expected from him to be our first choice CF. so much difference you see ?

not sure if you are trying to be sarcastic, but it goes like this, both players went through a period of adaptation in madrid before performing. Although, media attention put Benzema on the forefront as opposed to HIguain, but you blame Benzema for taking " 2 years" while it's normal thing to take time to settle, and as an example, a player you champion needed the same time. After that, we are smart enough to disregard the media BS and look at things for what they are in reality.

Everyone knows Marca is just a newspaper that loves selling paper... many had doubt about Higuain ? well he proved them they think wrong about him. this is a personality that every professional player should have. you must be strong enough to cope with pressure. you should only focus on yourself. once you see yourself as a footballer your only job is think about football.

My point wasnt really about Marca, and I used them as an example. But it's true that HIguain wasnt very convincing in his debut in Madrid, it came as a surprise for all when he stepped it up. So yeah after facts, he convinced us all, but i am merely establishing a relational between what he experienced and what Benzema did. Karim wasnt convincing anyone, but through perseverance and hard work, he made it through. Hey look i can even quote you, and look how well it works:
"many had doubt about [Benzema] ? well he proved them they think wrong about him. this is a personality that every professional player should have. you must be strong enough to cope with pressure. you should only focus on yourself. once you see yourself as a footballer your only job is think about football." Nice no?

I'm saying something and you replay something else. look my point is that coaches are no different in term of using their players. perhaps if Benzema had worked hard he would've been Pelle's first choice CF but it didn't happen. so what you expected from Pelle to do ? we can suppose that Pelle didn't like Benzema but he couldn't say anything if Benzema showed him that what he's capable of. Pelle had no personal problem with him. he just prefered the player that give his 100 % when playing. coaches always prefer the focused players. don't make a big deal of it.

Still no getting it. I am talking about a factor that negatively impacted him when he arrived in Madrid, a factor like many because everything isnt black or white. Mourinho coached Benzema through his come back in Madrid, man management, something Pelle wasnt able to do. Some coaches can get more out of some players than other coaches, It's only what i am touching on. So in this context, proper coaching isnt something he benefited the most from in his first season, again, not the heart of the issue, just one factor. It's true that every professional ought to put some degree of effort in his work, but in truth, if a player is going through a slump like Benzema did in his first season, it's also part of the coach responsibility to pick him up. Coaching is also a human experience and people interacting with each other, not just sitting behind a computer and designing formations ala FM. There is a relational of trust between both party, if a player is hurting, then the coach also ought to be there. I mention this because Benzema had issues dealing with change, which affected him at various levels. notably how much work he did. It's important to recognize that because he didnt have a reputation of not working hard enough with Lyon.

Higuain was already WC before he takes charge of Real Madrid.

HIguain at 21-22 was a world class player? after his very first break out season?

There is no fallacy in what i'm saying. all i see from you is quoting me and answering it with your own view regardless of what i've said. you change my word and use it against me. Benzema has been brought to be our first choice CF and you can't deny it. he was our first choice CF for 7 straight weeks but then his performance disappointed Pelle and he needed to bench him. if Benzema answered his trust with better performance there was no way he'd bench him. i mean no way, don't say Higuain was our first choice because if it was the story Perez wouldn't have bought BENZEMA to be Higuain's cover. it's a laughable theory at best. about the 2 man forward line up i can assure you that the plan wasn't to play Higuain and Benzema beside each other, Higuain was a cover for Ronaldo and Benzema. because we've bought Ronaldo to play behind one of them. Ronaldo as (SS) and Higuain/Benz as (CF).

The Fallacy is you saying that Benzema was bought to be the main CF. where am i changing your words?
He was bought to be long term partner of higuain. playing ROnaldo/Kaka/Benzema/Higuain is what they envisionned long term. It's nobody's fault if Pelle handled it badly and started him 7 straight week when he wasnt in form yet. There is no point forcing through a player that struggles to find form just to have him play. That's poor man management. That's Pelle sucking big times, and not recognizing he needed to ease Karim through. If he fell victim of pressure as a coach, it's his own failing.

Ronaldo was playing as a winger most of the time in League for yanited. How long did we play Kaka/Ronaldo/Raul/Benzema? werent the forwards Raul-Benzema? if your theory is true then we would have seen Ronaldo-Benzema from day one. And the club wouldnt have sold all our midfield solutions in Robben, Sneijder etc... VDV was going to be a casualty as well, if it wasnt for his wife being sick. I struggle to find any reasoning in what you say. I mean, Higuain was already a popular Madridista so i doubt the board was just inclined to burry him behind those other players. They knew Raul was aging badly, hence they signed Benzema, an SS to replace him; interestingly, the other number 1 target we had, Villa, is an SS as well....hmmmmm. If Pelle made a mess out of it, it's his own fault.

Again i see you repeat yourself without thinking about what i've said. typical Nick how can i say to you that Higuain wasn't supposed to take RVN or Raul's spot on the team. he was just a cover for those players. because one was injury prone and the other on was already at decline. beside it he was also a part of Madrid's future team. Benz's situation was a whole story, if you don't want to accept it, it isn't my problem.

I dont know what you are talking about, im not deflecting your points, im answering what you give to me. Dont pretend otherwise. Bottom line is that both got their chance to become regular starters through someone else injury, they didnt achieve anything special from the bench to get that honor. if you want to pretend it's not true just so that HIguain can look good then please, do so.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

people saying abate and podolski

also Marcelo was a top 3 LBs last season,haters gon hate

And Leighton Baines is a WC leftback

dunno how he is but Marcelo is

If 6 months of good form makes you world class then i suppose

[guest7]

people saying abate and podolski

also Marcelo was a top 3 LBs last season,haters gon hate

And Leighton Baines is a WC leftback

dunno how he is but Marcelo is

If 6 months of good form makes you world class then i suppose

And a good preseason.

[S]

Most of the Real Madrid players..

Someone on this forum said Oezil >Fabregas and Sneijder..

[S]

funny thing is some people on the forum seem to be serious about Abate.

People who dont rate them seem to be serious about them

[Le Samourai]

It’s not addressed to you specifically.
I just see some kind of turmoil in the forum’s Madrid ranks regarding the two players.

Anyway…

There are guys who support Higuain and others who support Benzema and both try their very best to put one striker over the other by talking about the other's short comings. It's actually really fun to be honest.

Sigh........this is a problem. I love Benz , as a player I just love the way he plays the game. I love higuain for his passion more because lets be honest he isn't his game jus dosen't look at smooth, but if you look at what he has done for madrid from the very beginning , winning crucial games in the dying seconds, you realise that even though he dosen't look as good he's the kind of player that gives his heart and soul , the combination of that and his talent level is enough to make him a truly wc player.

It's amazing that people don't realise that there's more than enough space for 2 world class strikers in a Squad.Instead they resort to insulting the talents of players on their own teams in order to show alliegance to another player with whom their favourite player may be competing.

I can imagine how much insults Zidane would've taken around here because he was competing with Guti , or how much Ronaldo/owen would've taken because they are competing with Raul.

You're supposed to like players , You SUPPORT teams.

If you believe a player should start in front of another , state your opinion reasonably and it will be discussed.Don't just say Benz>Higuain or Higuain>Benz , cuz it will just turn into a stupid fight like this one.

[S32TABLANCA]

Most of the Real Madrid players..

Someone on this forum said Oezil >Fabregas and Sneijder..

Ozil and Cesc are different, but yes Ozil>Sneijder. EDIT: Now, that is.

Anyway, how are those two still arguing over Benz v Higuain?

See how Madrid fans arent all the same? Just cos some of us do stupid things, no reason to hate on all 'The Madrid Fans'.

[BarrileteCosmico]

For two players that have played at a very inconsistent level and accomplished little and less Marcelo and Benzema are ridiculously overrated in this forum.

[chad4401]

lol yep benz is so second tier that he is carrying france NT on his back yep second tier indeed

Carrying them to 0-0 draws with Romania

messi and copa

[Mr Nick09]

Actually, this went far away from the original point we were discussing about.

El_pipita, you claimed i overrate benzema, and when i asked how, you never once took on my request and answered it. All i got is how much i was a fanzema, and how much we were talking about him; how little he was working one year ago; how he got too much attention from the hard times he was going through; and how Higuain was the prototype of the perfect player and what not.

Not even once did you complained about how i was making him sound much better than he is; How i was running around the forum talking about how he is the absolute best young CF around; how i was describing him to have a stronger shot than Ronaldo, a better heading game than Llorente or god like striker intuition; or how i rate his performances much higher than what he deserves, singing praise about him even when he has poor games.

You want to know why you cant do that? Because I never do talk about him in such terms. Actually, the older posters on our board, like Crimson, can tell you just how hard i was slaying Benzema last summer...

This isnt about whether we hype/overrate Benzema, but about how much attention he gets from us, and how much it's bothering you guys. We talk about Benzema 20x as much as we do about Higuain, and it's upsetting you. Im no forum doctor, but sounds to me like the symptoms of a syndrome known as butthurtnitis.

It's no one fault If Benzema showed so much more promise than Higuain at a early age. He has a higher ceiling, it puzzles most of us, and it's exciting to see how he will tap into it.

Sportsczy made an interesting post to sum up the attitude of some about this,

You won't convince anyone... if you bring up stats, you'll get "stats don't mean everything". You bring up the technique and passing, you'll get "he needs to be better as a pure 9". You bring up how he performed when he got his chances last year, you'll get "those weren't important goals". And most of all, you'll get "Pipita is a dedicated Madridista, has scored big goals for us (this is a big ??? to me) and we trust him more just because". Etc. Etc.

So it's useless. Let it go.

And so i will, completely useless sometimes.

[Pedram]

not sure if you are trying to be sarcastic, but it goes like this, both players went through a period of adaptation in madrid before performing. Although, media attention put Benzema on the forefront as opposed to HIguain, but you blame Benzema for taking " 2 years" while it's normal thing to take time to settle, and as an example, a player you champion needed the same time. After that, we are smart enough to disregard the media BS and look at things for what they are in reality.

The difference is here, you think two years for adapting is normal while in my opinion a normal player will adapt to the team in less than a year. some footballers don't even need time to adapt. so it's only Benzema's problem that it takes him too much time to adapt.

My point wasnt really about Marca, and I used them as an example. But it's true that HIguain wasnt very convincing in his debut in Madrid, it came as a surprise for all when he stepped it up. So yeah after facts, he convinced us all, but i am merely establishing a relational between what he experienced and what Benzema did. Karim wasnt convincing anyone, but through perseverance and hard work, he made it through. Hey look i can even quote you, and look how well it works:
"many had doubt about [Benzema] ? well he proved them they think wrong about him. this is a personality that every professional player should have. you must be strong enough to cope with pressure. you should only focus on yourself. once you see yourself as a footballer your only job is think about football." Nice no?

Using my arguement for Benzema ? Benzema choke under pressure, he doesn't have a strong personality like Higuain, he doesn't focus only on Football. how could you use my words for Benzema is beyond me

Still no getting it. I am talking about a factor that negatively impacted him when he arrived in Madrid, a factor like many because everything isnt black or white. Mourinho coached Benzema through his come back in Madrid, man management, something Pelle wasnt able to do. Some coaches can get more out of some players than other coaches, It's only what i am touching on. So in this context, proper coaching isnt something he benefited the most from in his first season, again, not the heart of the issue, just one factor. It's true that every professional ought to put some degree of effort in his work, but in truth, if a player is going through a slump like Benzema did in his first season, it's also part of the coach responsibility to pick him up. Coaching is also a human experience and people interacting with each other, not just sitting behind a computer and designing formations ala FM. There is a relational of trust between both party, if a player is hurting, then the coach also ought to be there. I mention this because Benzema had issues dealing with change, which affected him at various levels. notably how much work he did. It's important to recognize that because he didnt have a reputation of not working hard enough with Lyon.

Well you can't expect every coach to be like a father for players. Pellegrini wasn't a WC coach after all. blame it on Perez for not signing up Mourinho earlier than this.

HIguain at 21-22 was a world class player? after his very first break out season?

He was WC, is it suprising ? he has scored 24 goals and assisted 9 goals with having only 21 years old. i believe it's enough fact to consider him WC for his age. he was there whenever we needed him, he scored so many crucial goals for us that season and i think it should've been convincing for Flo not to sign another WC striker.

[Mr Nick09]

Using my arguement for Benzema ? Benzema choke under pressure, he doesn't have a strong personality like Higuain, he doesn't focus only on Football. how could you use my words for Benzema is beyond me

Yeah, i recall Benzema choking an open goal in the Bernabeu against Lyon two years ago.

Thx lurd HIguain delivered us last season when we were in a nasty tie against Sevilla in copa and playing Lyon again, he was so good.

[Le Samourai]

Using my arguement for Benzema ? Benzema choke under pressure, he doesn't have a strong personality like Higuain, he doesn't focus only on Football. how could you use my words for Benzema is beyond me

Yeah, i recall Benzema choking an open goal in the Bernabeu against Lyon two years ago.

Thx lurd HIguain delivered us last season when we were in a nasty tie against Sevilla in copa and playing Lyon again, he was so good.

Sigh.................Ossasuna? , Getafe? . That goal against Ossasuna won us a leauge.This is going nowhere.

[Pedram]

Using my arguement for Benzema ? Benzema choke under pressure, he doesn't have a strong personality like Higuain, he doesn't focus only on Football. how could you use my words for Benzema is beyond me

Yeah, i recall Benzema choking an open goal in the Bernabeu against Lyon two years ago.

Thx lurd HIguain delivered us last season when we were in a nasty tie against Sevilla in copa and playing Lyon again, he was so good.

Fanzema's excuse like always. if we are going to blame Higuain for missing a single one-on-one then i wonder how much we should blame Benzema for missing one-on-one game after game. cuz it has became routine for him to miss one-on-one. but don't worry as long as we have so many Benz fanboys we won't see any complain about him.

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