This is unbelievable stuff really

vanDEEZ wrote:So I would like to pose a few questions, since it is very easy to be critical.  Much more difficult to actually pose a viable solution.

1.  Who should be our manager?
2.  How would we play under this manager?
3.  How would this improve our 2016/17 season so far?

crickets...

Juande Ramos wasn't even the worse either. We've really had bad teams before. Just awful teams with awful football playing with waste of time managers at the helm.

@VanDeez
Doubt you'll get an answer to those questions. Well, not an answer that wouldn't gather more criticism. ZZ is fine. The team is fine relatively and maybe we'll get to the point where they can do more but as of now, this is actually fine.

Since taking over...

26 wins, 4 draws and 2 defeats
89 goals scored
25 goals conceded

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinedine_Zidane

Truly impressive, no sarcasm intended. But I'd be happier if we also kept winning against the tough sides like Atlético and Barça. Let's hope we do.

It'd be disappointing to lose the second we meet a heavyweight, then try to come up with excuses as to why we did.

So yeah, great record, and hopefully it continues against the big boys.

I don't think that Zidane's success was ever questioned here not quite sure how telling us how many games he has won is relevant here

We lost to Atleti... and then beat Barca at the Bernabeu and Atleti in the CL final.

You can't win like this if you don't play great football.  For some, the definition of "great football" is very narrow and revolves around their romantic view about how football should be played.  That's personal Utopian football...  your dream.  No data to back it up or to show that the current team is the "worst footballing side ever at Madrid"...

Nothing wrong with dreaming about Madrid playing a certain way. But the way the current team is described by some is not only blasphemous, but entirely false given the results.

You're missing the point. The point is, we have been losing most of our big games in recent years in La Liga, and if we want to win the league, we have to change that.

Beating the likes of Espanyol and Osasuna is great, but we have also to beat Barça and Atlético to win the title.

So let's hope when we meet the big boys, we'll deliver.

This is about Zidane... only about Zidane.  People are criticizing the football under his management, which is fine.  If we could score 5 goals every game, attack like crazy and win trophies while doing it...  great.  We can't.  But saying that tactical and pragmatic football is "bad football" is an entirely subjective opinion (one that I completely disagree with).  The results and the data behind the results under ZZ indicate the exact opposite.

If this debate has changed where we're looking at the entirety of Madrid football, regardless of manager, over the last 3-4 years... then I'm not following.  We've won 2 out of the last 3 CLs. We've had issues in La Liga though, which ZZ is fixing btw. The points per La Liga game that he's managed is on par with Mourinho's second season.... basically, a record setting La Liga pace AND we won CL already.

Anyhow, you can't say that the team under Zidane has played poorly against our rivals.  In fact, that criticism is only valid against Carlo/Rafa.  Mourinho had a fantastic record against Barca/Atleti from what I recall.

So this is just a complaint thread or is someone actually going to offer a solution?

Let's go with this premise that Zidane is the sole reason we are playing the 'worst football in op's history.'

How do we change that? Who comes in for ZZ? Then explain how we will play better and get better results.

sports, to be honest with you, I don't mind winning while playing ugly football as long as we're also beating the big sides.

What I do mind is to keep winning like this then the second we meet a heavyweight we lose. That would be disappointing.

so yeah, as long as Z is winning, he's the man. And if we want to win the league he needs to beat the big boys. So I hope when that day comes, we'll deliver.

@DoC... the only way ZZ can start changing our style to something closer to your utopia is if he brings in both Isco and James for one of the BBC and one of our midfield trio.  

That gives us two players that can individually break being pressured and can run with the ball at their feet through the midfield.

But with our current lineup, it's not possible.  And given our success right now, it would be incredibly rash and unfair for ZZ to make such a change.  

These types of significant adjustments are either made during preseason or if the results require a shakeup.  We didn't have our best players for preseason and the results are great so far.

I'm not really sure what this whole debate is about tbh the more I think about it.

Sports, you still don't seem to understand my point. I said that I really don't mind us playing like this if it guarantees us also winning against the big sides.

I mean I don't think anybody would complain if we kept playing like this and then won La Liga. I'd rather we won La Liga while playing unattractive football than play the best football in Europe and end up trophyless.

So if Z can keep winning even against the Barças and Atléticos all while playing ugly football, I'm all for it.

What I would hate to see is for us to barely scrape through the Sportings and Espanyols and then get smashed the second we meet a heavyweight. I want Z to win, and I want him to keep winning against the tough sides as well.

vanDEEZ wrote:So this is just a complaint thread or is someone actually going to offer a solution?

Let's go with this premise that Zidane is the sole reason we are playing the 'worst football in op's history.'

How do we change that? Who comes in for ZZ? Then explain how we will play better and get better results.

Good question, I really can't think of anyone atm. My preferences are Del Bosque and Pep but none of them are available obviously.

You can't be serious about Del Bosque.

Diego Simeone too, I like him alot. They outpossessed us (not that it matters) in CL final and I think he would play different with Madrid. But he's not available either

vanDEEZ wrote:So I would like to pose a few questions, since it is very easy to be critical.  Much more difficult to actually pose a viable solution.

1.  Who should be our manager?
2.  How would we play under this manager?
3.  How would this improve our 2016/17 season so far?

You would think some of the posters here have just started watching Madrid and are not aware of the politics.

A great coch can come in but if they do not buy into the idea they are shipped off. In fact I think that was Peps biggest idea at Bayern. The players simply did not buy into his idea as much as he would have wanted and why would they? They reached 2 cl finals and won a treble playing their old way. Now at City because of how they suffered last season and how he has a ridiculous amount of control there now because the club has been geared for his arrival, the players are willing to listen.

Now with that said, let's take Madrid, where the jersey is the heaviest in the world and the m anager faces more scrutiny (perhaps only matched by Barcelona) than any other footballing position in the world, and then they know they have very little authority and the stars have all the power, that means you either get someone you transfer all the power to like Mou, who eventually lost to the player power as they weren't even on speakig terms when he left, or you have a company man like Carlo who eventually will fail in the long run because of his relaxed approach.

Zidane immediately commands respect because of who he is and that is 80% of the battle done. If players wont listen to you it doesn't matter how great you are as a coach as we saw under Rafa.

I can't think of any coach atm that can come and impose a massive change on the club without upsetting the top star players who are used to a certain way. They now have 2 cls, what coach can come and boss them? None. Maybe when the old boys are bled out that would be the time but at this moment in time, Madrid has too many egos and only a man like ZIdane can control them.

He has Florentinos ear and the players respect.

Would take Del Bosque back in a heartbeat. I love that guy too much.

Can't complain , it's the results that matters am j doing it right?

Adit wrote:We have only 1 league title in 8 years exactly because we played structure less football so we always struggled against the top teams in La Liga.

Like todays match we wastes the first half not moving the ball properly and ends up regretting the lack of time in second half. The inefficient ball movement is because of lack of positional play. I was amazed how despite having 3vs2 and 4 vs 3 in our favor today we turned the ball over in the end because we couldn't position ourselves properly. They were either too close to each other or too far apart to take advantage. If we don't learn or coach teach them to take advantage of numerical advantage and create numerical advantage then we will never be able to move the ball through the center. Which is there to see with our dependent on crossing.

Same old script.

Then what would you do Adit? You seem to be the biggest critic yet you haven't made a single suggestion as to whom our new boss would be, or how you would change our tactics.

Villarreal parked the bus the entire second half, even teams like Barcelona and Bayern struggle against that.

sportsczy wrote:You can't be serious about Del Bosque.

Yeah, we really think a coach that won 2 CLs and 2 ligas in 4 years plus a World Cup and Euro in 8 years with NT isn't good. Mind you if he was French, we would see a far different response!

Please don't take my response to Sports' nonsense as criticism of Zidane. He is a rookie coach and doing remarkably well from my perspective. I don't believe there is a better man for the job at this point in time.

As to today's game, we were very unlucky not to win. We still will be at least a point up. I didn't like the first half, but 2nd half seemed to me to have everything some here have been complaining about, except the missing final goal. Not the end of the world people!

lol del bosque, del bosque's no different, he's a good man-manager, will let the inmates run the asylum....sometimes that's what's needed. but when people talk up tactical nuances, structures and innovation with regards the playing style, i seriously doubt mr del bosque's the one you want. is it of any surprise that when spain's slow shift away from their normal style, due to old legs happened that del bosque couldn't restructure something different?

i like the guy, good coach, he knows how to get his players to get along, that's his biggest asset. was the perfect guy to take over from aragones, as he wasn't going to rock the boat. if you're looking for someone to lighten up the mood after in-house fighting, he's your bet. if you're looking for some tactical innovation (which many are looking for), i doubt he's the one.....not to mention he hates florentino with a passion, and rightly so. he has turned down offers to receive lifetime awards at madrid, what makes y'all think he wants to work with florentino full time?

Being critical about Zidanes lack of proper game plan does not mean he has to be sacked 5 games into the season but let's not belite others for pointing out the flaws in the game just because we ended up winning last few games in last minutes. This result is not a surprise for those people who actually saw the problems. I expect the result camp to be in complete denial and will say we deserved to win bla bla despite this being the pattern.

Zidane is absolutely average.. He doesn't add anything tactically which gives the team advantage nor is this way of playing going to get us La Liga. This is same old structure less football we have seen over the years which is prone to high number of these types of games.Zidane even started a horrible Benzema despite him playing like shit.

Barcelona have no problem winning against Villarreal at home. This was at bernabeue just like last year. It seems we barely ever win against the top 4 teams. Few years ago it were Valencia who used to take points and unsurprisingly they were the top 4 team back then. We are basically flat track bullies then and now and that method has been largely inefficient in La Liga.

i still maintain that, if we want a shift away from status-quo, new formations or players who should be in the lineup is what is to be suggested. i made this point millions of times and i'll say it again

'pellegrini, mourinho, ancelotti, rafa, zidane- all coaches with different styles; ancelotti in particular talked up playing with the ball when he arrived. none of those coaches has been able to shift the team from a counter attacking system. at one point do we go maybe it has to do with personnel'? the squad has largely been the same for ancelotti rafa and zidane....and mind you, ancelotti's bayern (i know its still early days) isn't playing the same way his madrid side was playing

do the math, try and eliminate the constants