Spain have been frauds since 2009 imho.

From dominating midfield after midfield for years on end to curb stomping on PPirlo's Italy in the Euro 2012 final to getting dominated by this Italy.
The Spain era was all about the Xavi Hernandez era. He dominates, Spain dominates. He retires, Spain go back to mediocrity.
Bow down to the GOAT midfielder.

Until 2008, Spain had never beaten Italy in a competitive match for 88 years. They had only won against Italy in the 1920 Olympics. In 2008, with both Gattuso and Pirlo (the main midfield players) ineligible for too many yellow cards, Spain was only able to beat Italy on penalties.

We are talking about less than a decade of Spanish supremacy over Italy. Now we are back to normal even with this less talented, historically speaking, Italian national team.

Spain had one of the best short runs ever, but Italy is Italy, their run has been longer than Brazil's. It started when they won their first world cup in 1934.

breva wrote:Until 2008, Spain had never beaten Italy in a competitive match for 88 years. They had only won against Italy in the 1920 Olympics. In 2008, with both Gattuso and Pirlo (the main midfield players) ineligible for too many yellow cards, Spain was only able to beat Italy on penalties.

We are talking about less than a decade of Spanish supremacy over Italy. Now we are back to normal even with this less talented, historically speaking, Italian national team.

Spain had one of the best short runs ever, but Italy is Italy, their run has been longer than Brazil's. It started when they won their first world cup in 1934.

88 years, that's the number I was looking for earlier in this thread.

Well put, my man

Yes it should be the other way round.

Italy always beat Spain except for a brief period where Spain's greatest generation beat one of the weakest Italian generations.

S wrote:Yes it should be the other way round.

Italy always beat Spain except for a brief period where Spain's greatest generation beat one of the weakest Italian generations.

This...

I really agreed and even thumbs up S's post but Italy did lose a final 4-0 to Spain. That pretty much nullifies 88 years of not losing to the Spaniards in the grandest way.

Time to go on another 88 year run imo.

Italy along with Germany and Brasil have been top top teams forever. England had a run, years ago, Netherlands have been good several times and France has had a couple of runs, Argentina have been close several times. Spain has had a decade long run.

But the consistency is alone with Italy, Germany and Brasil. Hell, even a German friend of mine says he is worried about this Saturday as as he puts it, Italy always gives Germany a hard time.

So I say this Italian team, without many name players is a much superior team than most have given it credit for. At the same time, Spain was overrated, including by myself (biased that I am), but in reality it is a new team trying to recover the form of 4 years ago. It's a case were the only survivors of the previous generation are Iniesta, who IMO had a great tournament, but has likely played in his last tournament, Ramos and Pique, who are liabilities at this stage and sad part is we have no viable replacements. Then we have the backup players from previous teams, Silva, Cesc, Pedro not anywhere close to the top of their games and in at least two of these cases, they probably should not be on team. I do feel that there is talent in the younger generation, but they need time to develop.

My expectation is that we will continue to be a top team i.e capable of getting to QF or even SF, but not able to win a tournament in the foreseeable future.

Where has De Scilgio been all this time ? He made Juandran look useless yesterday

Mr Nick09 wrote:Where has De Scilgio been all this time ? He made Juandran look useless yesterday

Surely as much as anyone you should know his performance yesterday isn't really indicative of him in general.

There's so many international performances with standout performers who don't do nothing the following season or any season for that matter.

He needs to play great for his club too before he can be praised.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Where has De Scilgio been all this time ? He made Juandran look useless yesterday

Milan's bench mainly, struggled with some injuries as well. He's only 23. He's playing at an excellent level. He had the game of his life in the Coppa Italia final against Juventus, probably to cement his place with the national team for this Euro.

S wrote:Spain are shit Mole. Couldnt care less now. Italia

Turns out my hype wasn't any worse than your Brazil hype So happy to be wrong

At least i have the excuse that Brazil were missing key players

I still believe in Ganso and co tbh.

Luca wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Where has De Scilgio been all this time ? He made Juandran look useless yesterday

Milan's bench mainly, struggled with some injuries as well. He's only 23. He's playing at an excellent level. He had the game of his life in the Coppa Italia final against Juventus, probably to cement his place with the national team for this Euro.

De Sciglio has been playing at a great level since the final. I wasn't even keen on taking him, less so starting him. I had Antonelli and Darmian ahead of him, but since then he displaced Antonelli and benched Darmian. He is looking like the "promise" he was 2 years ago.

I firmly believe that Milan right now is toxic for a lot of players (no offense Milan fans), same thing with Saponara. If De Sciglio leaves he will shine, or Milan find stability.

Doc wrote:I really agreed and even thumbs up S's post but Italy did lose a final 4-0 to Spain. That pretty much nullifies 88 years of not losing to the Spaniards in the grandest way.

Time to go on another 88 year run imo.

Not probable in this day and age. Teams are much closer in quality and capability than back then.

rincon wrote:

Luca wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Where has De Scilgio been all this time ? He made Juandran look useless yesterday

Milan's bench mainly, struggled with some injuries as well. He's only 23. He's playing at an excellent level. He had the game of his life in the Coppa Italia final against Juventus, probably to cement his place with the national team for this Euro.

De Sciglio has been playing at a great level since the final. I wasn't even keen on taking him, less so starting him. I had Antonelli and Darmian ahead of him, but since then he displaced Antonelli and benched Darmian. He is looking like the "promise" he was 2 years ago.

I firmly believe that Milan right now is toxic for a lot of players (no offense Milan fans), same thing with Saponara. If De Sciglio leaves he will shine, or Milan find stability.

I hope its to Juventus if Lichtsteiner leaves, could see him getting 25+ apps a year for the first 2 seasons and then be a starter once Evra and Alves leave. I'm unsure if he would accept the role, but I would welcome him

(just a pipe dream right now)

breva wrote:Now we are back to normal

You're not, when Conte departs you'll be mediocre again.

Yeah because Italy was nothing before Conte

Not been so excited for an Italy victory , for years.
Always gorgeous to win against the Spain and besides got in a dominant way.
Regardless of the outcome Conte regave pride to Italy NT, it is not easy after the last WC.
I don't like as person , since he was Juventus captain ( and when he was player, he was even much more hateful than now IMO , and it's enough), but I 've always rated him highly as coach.
His didactic level is top.
Shame Ventura will be his replacement Not good for this pls

Socur Toxanarosa wrote:

breva wrote:Now we are back to normal

You're not, when Conte departs you'll be mediocre again.

What ? lol  
We were even the last Euro finalist

Just seen the other bracket

Portugal or Belgium will most likely end up in the final

Italy got the hardest road with Spain>Germany>France

sportsczy wrote:Yeah because Italy was nothing before Conte

They were great, but right now they don't have enough talent to be a top NT, Conte is absolutely overachieving with this team. I'd not be very optimistic about 2018 if i was Italian.

Socur Toxanarosa wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Yeah because Italy was nothing before Conte

They were great, but right now they don't have enough talent to be a top NT, Conte is absolutely overachieving with this team. I'd not be very optimistic about 2018 if i was Italian.

Why not?
Verratti and Marchisio should be present- our two best midfielders
The wingback position is absolutely stacked
Insigne, El Sharaawy are getting experience. There are young talented defenders like Rugani and Romagnoli to play alongside Bonucci/Chiellini perhaps.
Berardi is a great talent too.

Not worried at all, I'm excited in fact

Luca wrote:

Socur Toxanarosa wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Yeah because Italy was nothing before Conte

They were great, but right now they don't have enough talent to be a top NT, Conte is absolutely overachieving with this team. I'd not be very optimistic about 2018 if i was Italian.

Why not?
VERRATTI and MARCHISO should be present- our two best midfielders.
The wingback position is absolutely stacked
INSIGNE, EL SHARAAWY are getting experience. There are young talented defenders like RUGANI and ROMAGNOLI to play alongside BONUCCI/CHIELLINI perhaps.
BERARDI is a great talent too.

Not worried at all, I'm excited in fact

If you put it like that, I have to admit you have a point.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Luca wrote:

Socur Toxanarosa wrote:

They were great, but right now they don't have enough talent to be a top NT, Conte is absolutely overachieving with this team. I'd not be very optimistic about 2018 if i was Italian.

Why not?
VERRATTI and MARCHISO should be present- our two best midfielders.
The wingback position is absolutely stacked
INSIGNE, EL SHARAAWY are getting experience. There are young talented defenders like RUGANI and ROMAGNOLI to play alongside BONUCCI/CHIELLINI perhaps.
BERARDI is a great talent too.

Not worried at all, I'm excited in fact

If you put it like that, I have to admit you have a point.

Hans, you're killing me bruh
At least wait until after Saturday and we can duel to the death like men

Luca wrote:Why not?
Verratti and Marchisio should be present- our two best midfielders
The wingback position is absolutely stacked
Insigne, El Sharaawy are getting experience. There are young talented defenders like Rugani and Romagnoli to play alongside Bonucci/Chiellini perhaps.
Berardi is a great talent too.

Not worried at all, I'm excited in fact

Your best players with the exception of Verratti will all be over 30 and your youngsters are not that promising, hardly world class prospects. And no top coach this time.

Socur Toxanarosa wrote:

Luca wrote:Why not?
Verratti and Marchisio should be present- our two best midfielders
The wingback position is absolutely stacked
Insigne, El Sharaawy are getting experience. There are young talented defenders like Rugani and Romagnoli to play alongside Bonucci/Chiellini perhaps.
Berardi is a great talent too.

Not worried at all, I'm excited in fact

Your best players with the exception of Verratti will all be over 30 and your youngsters are not that promising, hardly world class prospects. And no top coach this time.

To each their own brother. Two years is way too far away to discuss it in real times, for all we know Ventura won't even be the manager at that time, or he could do a really great job in qualifying.

As for the age, being over 30 is no detriment in my opinion. As for the world class prospects, can't really predict how the players will develop but if we looked at all the past world class prospects that never became world class players, I'll take my chances. I can't see a player in this currently Italy team that was a world class prospect, except for Buffon 20 years ago

Luca wrote:To each their own brother. Two years is way too far away to discuss it in real times, for all we know Ventura won't even be the manager at that time, or he could do a really great job in qualifying.

As for the age, being over 30 is no detriment in my opinion. As for the world class prospects, can't really predict how the players will develop but if we looked at all the past world class prospects that never became world class players, I'll take my chances. I can't see a player in this currently Italy team that was a world class prospect, except for Buffon 20 years ago

Fair enough, i was talking about perspective but Italy is always unpredictable anyway.