Yeah but we're missing Di Maria, CR is not the same player and Isco is a shell of himself. Those were 3 pretty huge contributors. Alonso is better than Kroos too.

sportsczy wrote:proven themselves against whom exactly... have our top XI struggled against middle to bottom of the table teams recently? Nope. Our issue is top teams. Getting a draw or two every 10 games is normal. Every team does that. But continuously coming up short against Barca and Atleti is a problem... i can guarantee you none of the kids are anywhere near the level to compete against players on those two teams. They'll get eaten. The fact that they do well against La Liga fodder is no different than our top 11 doing well against those teams, which they are.

We're going nowhere in CL if we're going to rely on Lucas and Mayoral to perform against the elite. Casemiro? To be seen. His profile is unique. Kroos is so poor at the deep role that he may be an upgrade. Danilo is doing well on the left... but should he play over Marcelo? I'm not so sure.

That doesn't make sense, so who has our starting XI proven themselves against then if they've only beaten fodder teams? That surely means that some of our less profile players are on equal footing at this point in the season with the big boys.

@sport, But Bale is a better player, Benzema is a better player and we have a better bench

I don't think Bale and Benzema getting better (the former is still in question) could cancel out Di Maria or Ronaldo. Di Maria was ridiculously immense, like Redondo back in 2000. In fact, Di Maria didn't play like that, we weren't winning it and Ronaldo was a better finisher during that season and rarely picks up out of timing injuries.

And then there was the shape of the team...which looked good. Eventually.

A bit curious but where do Madrid fans rank the Decima team in terms of the great Madrid teams? Better than the early 2000s team?

No way.  That early 2000s team won 2 CLs in 3 years while making the semis in between.  Everything about those teams were better from defense to the strikers. Of course, Flo felt they weren't sexy enough after the 2003 season and blew them up lol.

ES wrote:A bit curious but where do Madrid fans rank the Decima team in terms of the great Madrid teams? Better than the early 2000s team?

on a technical level that 2001-2003 team was fantastic, pure artists. i liked the 98 and 00 teams more though. the spirit was there.

@fennec... the proven players are exactly that: Proven they can play big in big games although they are struggling with form currently. But you know that, if you help them find form, they have the elite level. With kids, you know nothing. They MAY get to that level. But the odds are far far less likely than the proven players.

As a manager of an elite squad, you always play the odds unless a kid is a prodigy. None of our kids are prodigies.

The time to test out kids are in preseason and early season... not in March during CL elimination round games.

ES wrote:A bit curious but where do Madrid fans rank the Decima team in terms of the great Madrid teams? Better than the early 2000s team?

In my humble yet arrogant opinion, the La Decima team would be ranked 3rd (or 2nd to last) among the 4 wins. 1st being 2002, 2000, 2014 and 98 in that order.

I've watched the 98 final in its entirety a good bit even saw it live all those years ago, how Juventus didn't beat us is beyond me. They were better in every department including the manager which we had "none" since Juup gave up on the team midway through the season. A fact that always seems to not be talked about when every one comments on Madrid firing Juup after winning the UCL.

The 2000 version was exceptional. Absolutely dross in the league, 90 million in debt and a talented but broken team and here comes Don Vicente and as Futbol would say, the shape looks good. Redondo doing what Di Maria would do 14 years later, Macca and Salgado really doing great things on the right side, Roberto dominating a left side and Raul being Raul. Tito would confirm but during group stage and in league play, we never beat Bayern nor Valencia respectfully.

2002 was just a great team. Everything clicked for us which was the beginning of the end for a lot of things with Madrid including just plain old common sense.

Quick mention to the team legendary teams that won 5 in a row. Due to the era which we won our European titles, it would be unfair to compare them to the modern teams but I would say this, they were legendary for a reason.

let me get this straight. @fennec; if we make it to the next round and draw say bayern or barcelona, you'd want us to start such games with lucas, mayoral, jese et al?

titosantill wrote:let me get this straight. @fennec; if we make it to the next round and draw say bayern or barcelona, you'd want us to start such games with lucas, mayoral, jese et al?

can't do worse than bale, ronaldo, james and benzema against barca

I still mantain the fact that the 2002-2003 team was our best team since Di Stefano, better than Quinta. We were a level above everybody at that time and if it weren't for Raul's injury and Figo's missed penalty, we would have dominated the football scene for the following decade. That missed penalty by Figo against Juventus hurts our recent history very much. Some of the football we played that season was mind-blowing.

Valkyrja wrote:I still mantain the fact that the 2002-2003 team was our best team since Di Stefano, better than Quinta.

LMAO dead

Team shape has nothing to do with execution you guys realize... it's about setting up in a 442, 433 or whatever the scheme is with proper line gaps.  It's very basic but something we couldn't do under Rafa...  we were lining up in a 415 or 424 with very large gaps to boot.  You stand very little to no chance of executing well against better teams regardless of how well the players perform if the TEAM SHAPE is so inbalanced.  You also need guys to run into proper positions and make the effort to maintain the shape that you need, which our guys are doing a much better job of now with 1 or 2 exceptions (namely Ronaldo and Marcelo).

That's what i mean when i say that, under Zidane, the shape has looked good regardless of results.  You can blame a lot of things for a few mediocre performances...  but you can't blame the team for not being set up properly on the pitch.  

The issues have been talked about ad nausea... but let's repeat:
-  players being used in positions that are not theirs
-  bad form of certain players
-  injuries and suspensions
-  manager not finding the right player combinations

But in the end, tactically, we're not setting up badly anymore.  We're just having problems executing for the reasons I stated above.

i can't agree with that; thing with the 02/03 team, even if flo had given hierro an extension, i'm of the belief he only had a year tops, to still cut it in the top flight. that team could have done better (raul was never the same after his operation, and yes figo's penalty ). but quinta won 5 straight league titles, that's nothing to throw aside. we can only talk 'ifs' when talking about the 02/03 team. and btw milan in the final wouldn't have been a cake walk. they beat us 1nil in the second group stage. and by the time we beat them in the second leg, they had already qualified and had bench men like ambrosini, redondo (who had been out injured for like 2 years), roque junior in the line up

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdC9aK8WwAAaHVo.jpg

Some rotations. Would have hoped for Lucas to play though

Let's hope James regains his top form. This month is his ultimatum I think

Scary that zidane starts Pepe ahead of Varane who was instrumental in containing pacy Roma attackers.

Pepe has really struggled with pace this season.. Aspas even best him for like 5 seconds in the last game... Not good decision.

titosantill wrote:i can't agree with that; thing with the 02/03 team, even if flo had given hierro an extension, i'm of the belief he only had a year tops, to still cut it in the top flight. that team could have done better (raul was never the same after his operation, and yes figo's penalty ). but quinta won 5 straight league titles, that's nothing to throw aside. we can only talk 'ifs' when talking about the 02/03 team. and btw milan in the final wouldn't have been a cake walk. they beat us 1nil in the second group stage. and by the time we beat them in the second leg, they had already qualified and had bench men like ambrosini, redondo (who had been out injured for like 2 years), roque junior in the line up

Flo improved massively in this second stint of his considering his failures in the early 00s : Nesta, Dinho, Makelele, Vieira, Eto'o. Still don't know why Cambiasso spent his whole time with us on the bench. He's one of the best DMs of the last decade. Put aside the stupid purchases he made

Scary? Varane has put himself to the bench. Making these amateur mistakes that are going to cost us. I like Varane but I too would put him on the bench.

It's just the normal rotation with all CBs healthy. Last 3 games:
- Varane Ramos
- Pepe Varane
- And now Pepe Ramos

Next one will be Varane Ramos.

Only thing that changes this are injuries and suspensions. It's a very good setup. Keeps everyone relatively fresh.

Pepe absolutely rubbish on ball as expected..

Zidane

Pepe is good but he must accept his backup status. Varane is head and shoulders above him

Shape: Poor. Execution: Poor. What a rubbish first half. That is a similar line up Sports posted and of course, have the same end product I imagined. What's the point in playing "proven" James when he, unfortunately, is pooping himself yet again. Speaking of James, he is not giving Danilo any real option to work with so we have no right flank to stretch out Roma or even give them something else to worry about.

And why are we even playing like this? We have a 2-0 lead in a UCL tie. Contain and counter, that's all we need to do. Roma fans should be incredibly upset because this should have been 2-2 on aggregate.

Not very good. We sorely lack a CF... Ronaldo doesn't know what he's doing at the spot.

Kroos and James have been underwhelming while Casemiro is ok but lunges too much. Too many risks by the kid. He needs to defend better standing up.

Marcelo and Danilo have both been meh too.

Ramos, Pepe, Modric and Bale are the only ones playing well.

Not sure if that's James playing, or a fan wearing his stolen kit.