how can some of you be hard on Danilo? when we all know he is just coming back from injury and still needs to settle at the club, nothing there to criticize, criticism for criticism sake is typical madrid arm chair manager talk.

anyway the game sucked im not really sure, whats we're trying to do, are we a counter attacking team or possession? well whatever it is our season basically depending on navas tbh, not for him the team would be in a hole, instead of top of the table.

oh last note no more bale-cr please its shit, it sucks hard and never looked good, just give jese the start stupid politics .

@Nick,

For the love of god almighty just watch from minute 70:10 and up. What shift are we talking about. Lucas has his guy, Casemiro has his guy, Danilo has his guy for like a 10th of a second. Look at him jogging back after leaving his side COMPLETELY exposed. He just stopped, then trying to save face by pretending to think it was a throw in. Still after the guy gets into our box Danilo makes no attempt to correct his error and is nowhere to be seen. Is that seen as acceptable defending nowadays? Didnt know

Spoiler:

As i said. Awful excuse of a defender. Hitting the jackpot with a move to the biggest club in the world

Jese was typical jese when he is played in his natural position - on the left. throughout last season, he was played on the right, and i dont think it takes much clairvoyance to see that he is predictable and sucks on the right.But when he is played on the left, he is a totally different beast. He can still manage as a left-sided striker or a SS, but not as a right winger - he is the worst player in the world in that position.
We saw today that a well-utilized jese can be the replacement for ronaldo that we have been searching for - speed, agility, proactivity, goal-scoring prowess (we could tell from his castilla days - highest goalscorer in a season in the history of castilla)

Danilo just got back from an injury but i still dont see the potential in him to bench carvajal on merit
Kroos has been as average as can be.
Casemiro was wonderful.
Ronaldo was ronaldo - wasteful, bad control, score the goals any other striker would score.
isco has been too average, but we cant blame him, he has been played out of position.
Nacho has been good enough, i dont know why people blame him like he scores own goals. He is comfortable with the ball at his feet and he makes some good tackles at times.
Keylor Navas: if he was German, spanish or English (just like someone said earlier) he would be touted as the best goal keeper in the world. I can go to sleepy comfortably knowing that we have him in goal.
Kovacic was non existent.
Lucas vasquez has to be ambitious and proactive. I think people are being too harsh on him. He has the skill to make things happen and i believe if he tries to dribble and make ambitious moves, he would come out on top, but he tends to be too shy.

In conclusion, the match was boring as hell, we scored two goals off the errors of our opponents, the third goal was a wonderful team work but most importantly, we got the three points.
Only God knows what cheryshev did to offend Benitez after he fought to keep him during the summer

i see the play that you mentioned, i was thinking of something else. But even then, it's a bad play. but the way you guys attack him, it sounds like we are talking about arbeloa here. as i said, keep thinking he is awful if you wish, i see something else, and i am not here to convince u

Admittedly i have somewhat of an agenda as i didnt want him in the first place so naturally i will nitpick. But even if a guy has a good game i wouldnt call it crap because i dont like him, i do appreciate it when they prove me wrong. James was the Danilo for me last season and he has kind of proved me wrong, when he manages to have a great game against a big team i will be sold until then i will still have my doubts

Marcelo will go down as our best LB ever

Valkyrja wrote:Marcelo will go down as our best LB ever

i very much doubt that. he's no roberto carlos. and secondly, i'm still not sold on his positioning. its cool to bomb forward and dominate offensively against the levante's of this world, but i still get a little worried about him on defense against top class opponents...even on offense, he's still not close to carlos. i admire his football though, he's our most creative player and i will give him props for his growth and maturity, he has come a long way from the 08 season when jesus navas and renato totally destroyed him at the sanchez pizuan. but ease up on the best ever thing

titosantill wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:Marcelo will go down as our best LB ever

i very much doubt that. he's no roberto carlos. and secondly, i'm still not sold on his positioning. its cool to bomb forward and dominate offensively against the levante's of this world, but i still get a little worried about him on defense against top class opponents...even on offense, he's still not close to carlos. i admire his football though, he's our most creative player and i will give him props for his growth and maturity, he has come a long way from the 08 season when jesus navas and renato totally destroyed him at the sanchez pizuan. but ease up on the best ever thing

RC was worse defensively and not as good forward. If Marcelo played in a 3-5-2 for long periods and scored free-kicks and long shots it would have been another story.

difference between can't defend and won't defend. carlos was won't defend at the tail end of his career. in his prime, he could tackle and he could mark; was better going forward, only he didn't do it as much as marcelo cos there where other creative players on the team. i'm sorry marcelo's nowhere near him, not even remotely close

There are two LBs Marcelo would have to dispose in both the affection of the fans and trophy collection: Roberto Carlos and Jose Antonio Camacho.

I highly doubt he'll surpass either...

Makes me think of all time best starting 11 for Madrid. Marca put out a campaign some years back - i think around 2008, together with CDs by candidates by position and then vote (by position). I don't remember outcome, but I'm pretty sure it had Roberto Carlos at LB. I know Zidane, di Stefano, Hierro, Raul made it, but don't recall the rest. Does anyone remember this and what was the final 11?

Raul for sure. Puskas very likely. Gento and Ciriaco probably got overlooked. Juanito, Pirri, Hugo Sanchez, etc.

You can't really make a top 11 imo.

Cristiano has a bigger claim than Zidane in an all time XI.

Carlos wasn't better than Marcelo offensively. He was much faster and had a fantastic shot, but Marcelo is a better passer and dribbler, while also having superior creativity. The main difference is their attacking style. Carlos used to hug the line because of his fantastic pace while Marcelo likes to cut inside due to his superior technique. They are both great but I like Marcelo more.

Well, here I go revealing my age again. That survey was before Ronaldo was at Madrid. it was every week a new CD was offered out with paper. the CD had a short video of each of the candidates for the position (that week). Then at end of week, they would reveal the top vote. From what I recall I think it was Iker over Illeger, Sanchis and Hierro at CB, Roberto Carlos at LB, don't recall RB, but I know Ramos and Salgado were candidates, Zidane for sure, don't think Figo made it, maybe Redondo and for sure it was Raul and Di Stefano. It also might have been Puskas.

You do however raise an interesting question of would Ronaldo make this list if it were done again. I have doubts whether Ronaldo would get more votes than Di Stefano, Puskas and Raul. You'll notice the original Ronaldo didn't make it! Part of the problem is it all depends on your age and what you saw and what was the video selected as a resume, as to your opinion. Last time this was done there were a lot of past legends bypassed for more current players.

As to Marcelo being better offensively than Roberto Carlos, absolutely no way. RC regularly went with ball from one end of field to the other, I recall one recap showing the ball never touched the ground as he ran full speed from one end to the other. He was creative, good passer and also was deadly on free kicks. Marcelo is good, but the yardstick for him and actually all LBs has always been RC.

ronaldo (el phenomeno) won't make the list, he was better than many other strikers for sure, but his time at madrid not so much. even if i'm looking at strikers i've watched, (obviously no di stefano, puskas, et al) as far as influence at madrid, el phenomeno won't trump butragueno nor hugo sanchez. (even though individually he's better than both)

in terms of overall 11, figo may not make it, but i really liked his football, and his work ethic, dude was treated unfairly in his final year. i don't think i'd pick anyone ahead of him on that right flank

back to marcelo, a left back has two roles; defense and offense. most people like marcelo primarily due to the approach on the offensive end. with the team we had with rc, the left back hogging the number 7 spot on the pitch wasn't necessary, carlos was extremely skillful, fast, tough and hardly injured. people forget his role in the ucl's we won, his deflected shot for mijatovic's goal, and that super throw in to raul against leverkusen

the only reason people questioned his defense was cos he was battling maldini for best lb....but ask beckham, overmars, figo, and other prominent right wingers who went up against him at the time whether or not he could defend....a key cog in real madrid's and brazil's winning teams....between the 2000-2002 seasons, he messed up on a lot of free kicks, but i bet his conversion ratio was better in his latter years with us, especially when beckham relieved him off taking useless free kicks from 100 yards out.....

everyone has the right to prefer who they want, but i bet even marcelo would find it ridiculous for anyone to put him on the same level as carlos

Like I wrote, Marcelo is not even better than Camacho and he is just as legendary as RC3.

my memory is coming back. i'm not 100% certain, but the following is what I think the end result was. Again this was a Marca survey in 2006 or 2007 or 2008 and was based on newspaper mail voting so therefore likely only Spanish votes.

Casillas; Ramos, Sanchis, Hierro, Roberto Carlos; Zidane, Redondo, Michel; Raul, Di Stefano, Puskas

Note: Marca did another survey, I think in 2012 or 2013 for the best foreign 11.

If we are gonna make a top XI, CR has to be in it. As playing the devils advocate, when it comes to pure quality and statistics he is surely there. *bleep* the guys attitude but he is a good player

Not a fan of his anymore. But he has been one of our better players in history. I don't like putting players from before the cryuff era (when he played so the early 70's give or take) because football was not the same game back then.

You are trying to say Ronaldo is better than Di Stefano, Puskas, Kepa, Sanchez, Butra., original Ronaldo, etc etc? nO way is the answer and excluding players that are a huge part of our history is biased to say the least.

the tough thing about picking an 11 is whether you're looking at individualism/skill level; impact on the team (which most importantly includes team titles won....not over-glorified supercups ) or people who captivated you when you watched the team (subjective and can often become a case of 'chronic fanboyism').

futbol_bill wrote:You are trying to say Ronaldo is better than Di Stefano, Puskas, Kepa, Sanchez, Butra., original Ronaldo, etc etc? nO way is the answer and excluding players that are a huge part of our history is biased to say the least.

You're talking out of nostalgia. CR7 is easily in the top 3 of Real Madrid's greatest. We're talking about a player who's become Real Madrid's all-time top scorer in 6 seasons, a number that Raul reached in 16 seasons. More than that, he's also the only player in the 5 major leagues to have 1.x goal per game ratio. That's unreal. Literally.

He can become the greatest if he wins another CL and two league titles. But so far, he's done enough to make you stand up and clap for him.

If you look at the names of all those ahead of Ronaldo, you'll see that they won more trophies, contributed to team more and as far as gaols scored, given that most of them played half as many games per season as today's players, double Di Stefano's goals to make a valid comparison. i would argue it is far easier today to make a top 2 or 3 in this generation than it was when European soccer was much more competitive.

This suggestion that Ronaldo has to be rated with all time best, is just as bad as saying Marcelo is better than Roberto Carlos or Camacho.

But, again, I only brought up this OLD marca survey, because of the reference to Marcelo being best of all time, LOL

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

futbol_bill wrote:You are trying to say Ronaldo is better than Di Stefano, Puskas, Kepa, Sanchez, Butra., original Ronaldo, etc etc? nO way is the answer and excluding players that are a huge part of our history is biased to say the least.

You're talking out of nostalgia. CR7 is easily in the top 3 of Real Madrid's greatest. We're talking about a player who's become Real Madrid's all-time top scorer in 6 seasons, a number that Raul reached in 16 seasons. More than that, he's also the only player in the 5 major leagues to have 1.x goal per game ratio. That's unreal. Literally.

He can become the greatest if he wins another CL and two league titles. But so far, he's done enough to make you stand up and clap for him.

i am talking about a survey that was done by Marca years ago. you guys brought this up by saying Marcelo and now Ronaldo are the best of all time. nothing could be further from the truth. Ronaldo has goals but what else. what has the team accomplished with him. compare the records of other, take Puskas or Di Stefano for example. And as to goals remember the number of games played back then. with Marcelo, he is a one way lateral with defensive liabilities. how can he ever be considered the best when there are guys like Camacho and Roberto Carlos in our history. just because you guys are over the top with some players, doesn't mean that you can diminish the past legends.

Very much similar to Marcelo, I highly highly doubt Cristiano would ever reach the sort of super Legendary status that Raul and Don Alfredo have. Just too much affection, accolades and history to ever dislodge those 2.

Mind you, Cristiano is a legend for the club, anyone who denies is it just Chadding up the place but being the greatest player for Madrid is not gonna happen or I doubt it would ever happen to be more premise.

its tough to argue against cristiano and champion r9 imo. r9 may have been better individually (when you look at the overall scheme of things), but as far as madrid's concerned, i'd venture to say cristiano has done more....r9 especially in the last maybe three years with us, was less interested in the team and more interested in parties, a phantom wedding and bets with florentino perez about how many goals he would score in the coming years

i can never put cr over di stefano or puskas though, they (especially di stefano) made this club. in terms of impact, unless we can rack up a couple of ucl n liga titles i find it hard even putting him with raul and butragueno (i'm sorry but for us at madrid titles are extremely important ) i don't even know how one would sensibly carry out a ranking, it'll obviously depend on age , who one has seen and once again hopefully titles (goals per game is good, but i value player's role in giving us silverware more than that).. a starting 11 makes more sense than a top ten imo. especially a starting 11 of guys we've seen. guys like di stefano, puskas, gento are untouchables, they made the club and deserve respect, nobody can take that away from them.....

if i'm to make a best 11 of those i've seen, cr would probably feature on the left flank, but that's mainly by default since we haven't had many great players for the nos 11 position (i'm sorry i cant put amavisca, savio, santi solari or mcmanaman ahead of him) rather than just goals he's scored.

Cristiano is better than Madrid's R9, Figo, Zidane. The only player I would rate higher than him in the last 20 years is Raul. But still he wouldn't make it in an all time 11 in my books.