Re: Who will Demba Ba join in January?

by RedOranje Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:36 pm

I can't personally see LFC pursuing him. Suarez is our central attacker and given his form in the first half of the season will remain so, by any logic. Ba won't want to accept a bench role and LFC won't be willing to meet his demands if he's coming in as back-up to Suarez in the central striking role. Our targets will be players who play in a wide striker role. While Ba CAN fill such a position he's worse than our other targets there and complains MORE than them when played there. Add his age to that and a move to LFC seems very unlikely.

Harry Redknapp wrote:For us, It'll be either him and Darren.

Andy Johnson is out until April, Zamora is a donkey, and Cisse is very inconsistent.

Either Ba or Bent. Both available for under 9M, and I am sure Tony will agree.

QPR are after Robbie Keane, and we all know he'd love to play for his boyhood club QPR. Laughing

by RealGunner Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:38 pm

Don't want Ba personally but there are not many good strikers in our range out there.

by DeletedUser#1 Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:43 pm

RedOranje wrote:

Harry Redknapp wrote:For us, It'll be either him and Darren.

Andy Johnson is out until April, Zamora is a donkey, and Cisse is very inconsistent.

Either Ba or Bent. Both available for under 9M, and I am sure Tony will agree.

QPR are after Robbie Keane, and we all know he'd love to play for his boyhood club QPR.

I think I'd know better about our targets than you Laughing

Robbie is our last choice, if we don't get Darren and Demba.

Can't wait to destroy your team on Dec 31st, like I did all those years with Spurs.

by Ion Creanga Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:49 pm

Great leader,
7 m release clause for Ba :facepalm:

..That's worst than i thought .. So, indeed he'll most likely leave.. This is a great market opportunity.. He looks like the type of player that marotta would bet on, cheap, decent salary and the potential to be outstanding (Barzagli, vidal, pogba, pirlo, asamoah... Ba?)..

You're not getting the full potential from your players.. That's a reason for your place in the league this year... No way Ben Arfa, Tiote, Ba, Cisse,Guttierez are 14th place level quality.. Your management needs to be more careful...

by RedOranje Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:54 pm

Harry Redknapp wrote:
RedOranje wrote:

Harry Redknapp wrote:For us, It'll be either him and Darren.

Andy Johnson is out until April, Zamora is a donkey, and Cisse is very inconsistent.

Either Ba or Bent. Both available for under 9M, and I am sure Tony will agree.

QPR are after Robbie Keane, and we all know he'd love to play for his boyhood club QPR.

I think I'd know better about our targets than you

Robbie is our last choice, if we don't get Darren and Demba.

Can't wait to destroy your team on Dec 31st, like I did all those years with Spurs.

You can stop pretending. 'Arry can neither read nor write as well as this.

by RedOranje Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:58 pm

Demba Ba buyers scared off by his £30m price package

The full cost of buying the Newcastle United striker Demba Ba could total a staggering £30m.

So far Newcastle have yet to receive a single phone call enquiring about the Senegalese forward. That was also the case during the summer transfer window, when the player was available for a fee of £7.5m because of a clause that was in his contract when he moved from West Ham to St James' Park.

Speculation then centred on the Turkish giants of Galatasaray and Fenerbahce, but neither club tabled an offer for the 27-year-old.

The clause then expired on 31 July, but it has since been revealed that it can be activated in January. That has led to renewed talk of interest, with Arsenal, Liverpool and Galatasaray again linked with the forward.

Newcastle have been unable to agree terms on an improved deal for Ba, following the 26 goals he has scored since his move to the North-east. When he moved from Upton Park as a free agent in the summer of 2011, Ba signed a three-year deal that was worth £40,000 a week. There has been a desire from his representatives to double that contract, a wage which is way above the ceiling set at St James' Park, and significantly above that of the top earner at the club, Fabricio Coloccini.

The relatively low cost of the initial deal for Ba has been seen as a reason for concern by those inside St James' Park. There remains a determined desire to extend his deal but the figures being asked for will have to drop considerably.

The hidden costs that would come with any move away from Newcastle would change the financial landscape dramatically. It is believed the fees required to pay those representing Ba would be around £5m.

A four-year deal at £80,000 a week, the figures his representatives are asking for, would mean any buying club would have to put together a £16m wage package. The entire package would cost more than £30m – and Ba would be entitled to half of the £7.5m transfer fee.

There is also the problem of insuring his knee. That was the reason why Stoke City pulled the plug on signing him in 2011 when he first moved from Hoffenheim.

Ba's record since then has been outstanding, both in terms of goals and appearances, but the knee remains a long-term concern.

The Newcastle manager, Alan Pardew, remains understandably keen to keep Ba at St James' Park and admitted this week that the player has expressed no desire to him to move.

"He's never done anything other than look me in the eye and show me he wants to stay here," Pardew said. "He loves it here, and he understands it's a football city."

There is similarly no suggestion from inside the club that Ba, an influential member of the home dressing room, is pushing to move away.

It's a few weeks old but it seems a lot of people haven't seen this yet.

by Art Morte Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:58 pm

Who is this Harry Redknapp poster? A new troll with some clever words, can't help thinking he has been here before, but no? Not that I mind, though.

tuddor wrote:Great leader,
7 m release clause for Ba ..That's worst than i thought .. So, indeed he'll most likely leave.. This is a great market opportunity.. He looks like the type of player that marotta would bet on, cheap, decent salary and the potential to be outstanding (Barzagli, vidal, pogba, pirlo, asamoah... Ba?)..

You need to come around more often, mate, because that release clause is really old news.

by juventus101 Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:58 pm

Would love him at Juve. Been a big fan of Ba ever since his hoffenheim days. Excellent striker. Good with the ball too yet also strong and good in the air, all of which make him perfect for us.

by Art Morte Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:00 pm

@ Red'O's post: fair enough, but every player cost their millions in wages and Ba's knee hasn't acted up at all in the Premier League, so that article sounds like making the transfer fee look extreme. Which it is not, imo.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:02 pm

Red that 30m includes his wages though and if we included Suarez wages in his fee for example he will cost you beyond 50m over his contract.

Yes you will have to pay agent fees on top of the 7.5m but you would for any major transfer most likely so transfer fee wise it's still quite cheap for someone of his record.

Of course his wages are quite high but when did we start adding wages on top of transfer fees? RVP is 70m+ then.

by RedOranje Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:04 pm

5m in agent/entourage fees is a bit exorbitant IMO. As one who has previously complained about those types of fees (and been involved in the discussions on how the club is looking to cut those down) I would imagine that you understand why I'm sharing the article in a thread discussing LFC potentially spending on the player involved. Or do you just enjoy disagreeing with me THAT much? :p

by RedOranje Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:05 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Red that 30m includes his wages though and if we included Suarez wages in his fee for example he will cost you beyond 50m over his contract.

Yes you will have to pay agent fees on top of the 7.5m but you would for any major transfer most likely so transfer fee wise it's still quite cheap for someone of his record.

Of course his wages are quite high but when did we start adding wages on top of transfer fees? RVP is 70m+ then.

Suarez signed on about 35k in wages. So his initial transfer fee was NOT that high. Only after he proved he could perform for the side did he get a new deal with increased wages.

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:05 pm

Demba Ba 2010 FM legend, took my Napoli to CL title :bow:

If his clause is 7.5M, could he buy his own contract out? hmm

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:07 pm

Speaking of FM they say there's a clause in his contract that Ba gets 3.5 of that 7.5m and we get 4m Laughing

Not sure if it's true or not but the media are running that story too.

Either way we are pretty f*cked.

by Art Morte Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:08 pm

RedOranje wrote:5m in agent/entourage fees is a bit exorbitant IMO. As one who has previously complained about those types of fees (and been involved in the discussions on how the club is looking to cut those down) I would imagine that you understand why I'm sharing the article in a thread discussing LFC potentially spending on the player involved. Or do you just enjoy disagreeing with me THAT much? :p

When it comes to agent fees, every transfer is it's own deal. Yeah, I do think LFC has had to spend too much on agent fees lately - considering the net return - but sometimes it's the necessary evil.

Don't include the wages, add up any agent fees with the release clause and I think Ba's overall price tag is justified. Not that I fancy us buying him.

by The Franchise Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:25 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:I'm sure Liverpool and Arsenal can do better. I think he'll end up staying at Newcastle.

Really?

Outside Suarez, I would say neither side have a better forward on there entire squad.

by RedOranje Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:29 pm

I think he means either can do better business in the window. For instance, for LFC Walcott, Remy, and arguably Sturridge would all be better business due to their ability to play out wide, age, and wages.

Huntelaar for 4-6m as well would be considered by many as better business for Arsenal and potentially LFC. I'm sure there are other available players that have simply slipped my mind. It's all about the tactics and formations used. Ba simply doesn't fit well into LFC's game with Suarez as a false 9.

by The Franchise Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:36 pm

I dont think Walcott, Sturridge and maybe not Remy either would be better even considering those factors honestly.

I know those guys are young and can play multiple positions, but if thats the only thing thats important then we could equally say those 2-3 players are better deals than Ibrahimovic..which we all surely agree isnt the case.

Hunterlaar? I dont like him. No skills outside finishing.

I understand tactics and all that (I dont think MT was actually thinking this much in depth) however perhaps Pool should think about switching it up and putting in a real 9. Even if not permanently, having one in the squad surely would be welcome as it gives you tactical flexibilty.

by RedOranje Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:41 pm

they're all far more capable of playing as a wide striker than Ba and have vastly more experience there, even at younger ages. Given Suarez will continue to be our starting CF I don't see how Ba could fit into our side while there's 1 or 2 clear places for all of those players given we are currently playing an 18yo and a fullback/shitehouse/CAM in those wide attacking positions.

by Art Morte Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:49 pm

The Franchise wrote:
I understand tactics and all that (I dont think MT was actually thinking this much in depth) however perhaps Pool should think about switching it up and putting in a real 9. Even if not permanently, having one in the squad surely would be welcome as it gives you tactical flexibilty.

Carroll

by McAgger Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:52 pm

Please Rodgers NOOOO. Anyone but Ba/Sturridge.

by RedOranje Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:53 pm

As for a change in tactics, all three of the players mentioned not only fill the available wide role but WOULD offer something different than Suarez as a central striker. As will Borini when he is fit again (in January). So again, Ba is not an ideal target for us... AND he wouldn't be happy sitting the bench waiting for Plan A to need changing.

by The Franchise Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:53 pm

RedOranje wrote:they're all far more capable of playing as a wide striker than Ba and have vastly more experience there, even at younger ages. Given Suarez will continue to be our starting CF I don't see how Ba could fit into our side while there's 1 or 2 clear places for all of those players given we are currently playing an 18yo and a fullback/shitehouse/CAM in those wide attacking positions.

Well as I said, I personally think having a 9 gives you flexibility.

You could play 4411 with Suarez off Ba, you could play 4231 if Suarez is injured, you could play 433 with Suarez wider.

Now, you have Suarez in his false 9 position and the only changes are made by those around him.

by The Franchise Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:56 pm

They would offer something different, running in behind...but Suarez equally runs the channels and would leave you with no reference point down the center. So I dont see how that works.

Borini I have not seen much of so no comments on that.

And Ba doesnt have to b on the bench, variation doesnt mean bench. Can start some games in a different way depending on the opponent.

by Art Morte Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:00 pm

RedOranje wrote:As for a change in tactics, all three of the players mentioned not only fill the available wide role but WOULD offer something different than Suarez as a central striker. As will Borini when he is fit again (in January). So again, Ba is not an ideal target for us... AND he wouldn't be happy sitting the bench waiting for Plan A to need changing.

Well I've posted many posts this season on which I hope I'm wrong, but Borini showed very little efficiency when he was playing so can't help thinking that
Ba >>>>>> Borini

Not that I'm still fancying Ba, just haven't got high hopes on Borini when he returns.

by RedOranje Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:02 pm

80k a week, plus 5m in agent fees, plus the transfer fee for a player that will only start some matches?

Rodgers obviously has his preferred approach and it's equally obvious he's not going to alter it unless injuries or vastly difficult opponents (top 2 or 3 teams in the league) demand it. As such that much expenditure doesn't make sense.

@ Art: Borini hardly had proper time to settle before his injury. It seems very harsh to decide to basically replace him already.

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Who will Demba Ba join in January?

Who will Demba Ba join?