I think we're arguing the same thing at this point, which is that Sahin simply wasn't a good player for LFC (whatever the reason).

RedOranje wrote:I think we're arguing the same thing at this point, which is that Sahin simply wasn't a good player for LFC (whatever the reason).

agreed sir, agreed.

Good day to you.

Why should Sahin play a position he doesn't play?

It's like buying Falcao and telling him to play on the wing.

Yohan Modric wrote:Why should Sahin play a position he doesn't play?

It's like buying Falcao and telling him to play on the wing.

Ok, he shouldn't. Then it's quite simple: he wasn't good enough to start for Liverpool. Those are your two options.

If he wasn't good enough to start then why was he loaned in the first place? There was no need for him with Allen already there imo.

Seriously? "You shouldn't have purchased him on the basis of the information you learned several months later."

20/20 hindsight.

BR's approach on this is very simple, and is what any manager would do. You have Gerrard playing incredibly in CM, and Sahin playing poorly there. Either he moves or he gets benched. He refused to move, so therefore he doesn't play. Compare that to Stewart Downing, who was willing to play LB for us just to get on the field, and tried his hardest until he won his spot back.

I'll take Downing and his mentality on my team over Sahin any day.

Yeah but Sahin was promised a certain position and playing time there, which is why he chose Liverpool. He played left back at Madrid when we needed it (did well too)... so mentality was not the issue. Only reason he left was because Mou couldn't get him enough playing time with Alonso here.

His goal was to get at his best in his best position... not change positions.

Again, i think there's fault here on both sides. Sahin made a bad choice and Liverpool didn't really have a plan for Sahin (probably told him whatever he wanted to hear to get his signature).

Just a bad situation.

Sahin was promised to play there by who, exactly? And who's saying he was promised anything? No-one at Liverpool, that's for sure.

And the point people seem to be repeatedly missing/intentionally ignoring is: Sahin WAS playing in his preferred position or damned close to it and was poor there. His decision to complain rather than fight for his place in the starting XI came about because of his poor performances in a position that was pretty much his supposed best.

How many matches did he play in preferred position? Probably not enough imo.

Yohan Modric wrote:How many matches did he play in preferred position? Probably not enough imo.

No point in continuing a discussion when you've clearly already made up your mind without any clear facts whatsoever.

Yohan Modric wrote:How many matches did he play in preferred position? Probably not enough imo.

Most of his matches.

The problem was that he had no interest in playing for anyone other than Madrid. He didn't even want a loan move. It was pretty disrespectful on his part that he didn't even try to settle in.

I think stevieg said Sahin played in his preferred position at the start of the season. He wasn't good enough so he was benched.

However I think he should have been given more time to settle in, considering he barely played for Real Madrid last season.

If we had an option to buy him I could of seen it working out.
Unfortunately, we didn't have one and he was getting paid far too much to be a rotational player. Hopefully he finds his quality soon, it just wasn't to be at Liverpool. He lost his place to other players performances being better so to suggest it was unjustified from Liverpool to break the loan deal is probably just RM fans that didn't watch him play often. They just rely'd on us getting him back into some form to benefit themselves. I still do believe he can replace Xabi Alonso slowly albeit not as good.

I don't even want his ungrateful a$$ back at Madrid either. Really liked him before he turned into a cocky c*nt that thought he was too good for the team.

He seems okay with playing left bench at Dortmund

Seen Dortmund play like 3/4 times the last couple weeks and he never starts IIRC - it's always Gundogan

Is he injured or something?

^ not injured, just ostracized


the missing link is forever missing

Donuts wrote:

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Sahin speaking out of his a**e here. Poor German talent, couldn't do jacks**t out of Bundesliga.

And what do english players do out of EPL?

Where am I denying that?

I'm sure he's still a great player, I would take him at Spurs if Dembele wasn't so good.

Needs to be a bit quiet though. You can't go blaming everyone, if anyone, don't blame Rodgers, blame Mou.

Didn't he play you as a LB ffs? And had the likes of Granero and Lass in front of you?

And you want to blame Rodgers for playing you in an unfamiliar position where your best performances came? A move forced by the fact that you flopped at Liverpool?

Sahin pls

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:I don't even want his ungrateful a$$ back at Madrid either. Really liked him before he turned into a cocky c*nt that thought he was too good for the team.

What exactly has he said he's too good for the team? He wasn't favoured under Mourinho and came to Liverpool. He didn't settle and was asked a question in an interview on why he struggled in England. He said he didn't play in his natural position and had good words about the club. It didn't work out for neither party - it's as simple as that.

Also this Lass inhead of him thing is stupid. Lass isn't a playmaker - Sahin is. Sahin and Alonso (another playmaker) wouldn't work together.

How many games did Sahin play in his preferred position? Exact number?

hopefully he falls through the grid deep so we can scrape him up .
sad, but it'd be something!

Yohan Modric wrote:I think stevieg said Sahin played in his preferred position at the start of the season. He wasn't good enough so he was benched.

However I think he should have been given more time to settle in, considering he barely played for Real Madrid last season.

I'm going to break it down game by game for you.

Arsenal, Home - September 2 - 0-2: Natural position, failed to impact the game in any way. Subbed off at 66th minute.

Young Boys, Away - September 20 - 5-3: Played the forward role in a 2 man midfield with Jordan Henderson, had 2 assists but tracking back to help midfield was poor and 3 goals were conceded.

West Brom, Away - September 26 - 2-1: Again played the forward role in a two man midfield alongside Jordan Henderson, scored both goals.

Norwich, Away - September 29 - 5-2: Played the middle role in a 3 man midfield with Joe Allen and Steven Gerrard, scored a goal (tap-in off a Suarez run) and got an assist.

Stoke, Home - October 7 - 0-0: Played the middle role in a 3 man midfield with Joe Allen and Steven Gerrard. Failed to influence the game and was poor in possession, subbed off at 78th minute.

Reading, Home - October 20 - 1-0: First game with Gerrard in the middle of the park and Sahin playing higher up. Failed to impact the game and missed his only real chance. Subbed off at 62nd minute.

Anzhi, Home - October 25 - 1-0: Playing as the deepest of three midfielders alongside Jonjo Shelvey and Steven Gerrard, performed decently in defense but did not effect the game with his passing.

Everton, Away - October 28 - 2-2: Foremost of a midfield three with Gerrard and Allen. Was arguably our worst player during a strong first half and was subbed off at the 45th minute.

Newcastle, Home - November 4 - 1-1:Foremost of a midfield three with Gerrard and Allen. Played decently, helping to create in attack, but didn't have a major impact. Subbed off at the 73rd minute.

Chelsea, Away - November 11 - 1-1:Playing in a deeper position than recently, Sahin failed to dictate play, although he did have a couple of chances (none of which he took). Subbed off at the 59th minute.

Young Boys, Home - November 22 - 2-2: Deepest of a midfield three with Jonjo Shelvey and Joe Cole, failed to effect the game in possession and was poor in helping the defense.

Udinese, Away - December 6 - 1-0: Injured in 11th minute and subbed off.

12 games. He was good in West Brom, Norwich, and arguably Anzhi and Young Boys. The rest of the games he was invisible, many of those playing in his preferred position.

Is 12 games enough for a player to bed in after a long term injury? Depends. But if the plan was for him to play himself into shape after having a full offseason and preseason, I'm not sure why Liverpool or Arsenal were on the table. Send him for 6 months to some relegation-battling La Liga team and be done with it. Especially without an option to buy, you either play well or you sit on the bench at teams like Liverpool, even in the difficult times we had at the beginning of the year. Four months into the season, with regular playing time for 2 and a half of those (not to mention training full-time) he was still unable to have any impact on the game from the position he's best in, and that's simply not going to cut it.

12 games is not nearly enough for a deep lying playmaker. Especially one so rusty as well.

Remember when Pool fans hated Lucas's guts? What if you got rid of him after 12 games?

Zealous wrote:12 games is not nearly enough for a deep lying playmaker. Especially one so rusty as well.

Remember when Pool fans hated Lucas's guts? What if you got rid of him after 12 games?

Lucas didn't demand to continue being played as an AM when we hated his guts, instead he switched to where the coach thought he would have the most impact, trained hard to get back into the first team, and became one of our top players. I can't think of a better example of a player that did the opposite of Sahin in a similar situation.