SuperMAG wrote:what lol, DLP/B2B are roles, A DM/CM is position they play.

Yeh if we had a pure DM, he'd most likely just simply protect the back 4 while the CM went B2B playmaking.

Currently we have a DLP playmaking, while the B2B (Khedira) goes B2B. He's the equivalent of a DM for us imo.

buddytaller wrote:Javi Martinez overrated

I've watched him 5 times

he'll largely perform bench warming duties.

So much lulz, where do I begin...

I paid attention to Javi Martinez in all five matches (Real Madrid H/A, Man Utd H/A, Atletico) and nothing about him swept me off my feet. He doesn't give you that feeling you get when you see Varane play, or as a midfielder when you watched Sahin against Bayern when he was at Dortmund.

Primarily because we would play him as a DM/B2B, not as a CB or an offensive CM? Did you stop to consider that?

I don't think he's a better DM/B2B than Khedira, he'll take Lass' place in warming the bench. Khedira imo, is underrated a lot on this forum, a player who was one of Stuttgart's best players, was influential in the German youth team that wowed Europe and who starts regularly at Real Madrid and Germany NT must certainly have something special.

With Mourinho staying Khedira will be the first choice over Javi Martinez.

buddytaller wrote:Javi Martinez must be the most overrated midfielder/defender in Spain, I've watched him 5 times this season and not once have I been overly impressed by him, I think he's a fine player, but certainly not world class.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in White, but it should not be for more than €20,000,000. Since he'll largely perform bench warming duties.

I have to agree with him, i watched him few times with athletico, nothing special, he is in the same mould as khedira, i have no idea why is he overrated to this extent, certainly doesnt worth more then 15m.

mtfootball wrote:

SuperMAG wrote:what lol, DLP/B2B are roles, A DM/CM is position they play.

Yeh if we had a pure DM, he'd most likely just simply protect the back 4 while the CM went B2B playmaking.

Currently we have a DLP playmaking, while the B2B (Khedira) goes B2B. He's the equivalent of a DM for us imo.

Players arent stuck to the ground you know, mvila can go forward, infact with france i saw him go forward and scored a good strike too, We have playmakers, Alonso and Sahin can go foward, we dont have the protector, Mvila can protect the defence, our midfield is very weak and need need a type of player that can protect the defence, we dont have any problems forward.

One of the reasons i want him is Sahin, alonso is getting even more slower, Sahin is different type of alonso, he is actually a playmaker, Mvila can hang back while sahin do his thing, they will make a great due.

SuperMAG wrote:

buddytaller wrote:Javi Martinez must be the most overrated midfielder/defender in Spain, I've watched him 5 times this season and not once have I been overly impressed by him, I think he's a fine player, but certainly not world class.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in White, but it should not be for more than €20,000,000. Since he'll largely perform bench warming duties.

I have to agree with him, i watched him few times with athletico, nothing special, he is in the same mould as khedira, i have no idea why is he overrated to this extent, certainly doesnt worth more then 15m.

mtfootball wrote:

SuperMAG wrote:what lol, DLP/B2B are roles, A DM/CM is position they play.

Yeh if we had a pure DM, he'd most likely just simply protect the back 4 while the CM went B2B playmaking.

Currently we have a DLP playmaking, while the B2B (Khedira) goes B2B. He's the equivalent of a DM for us imo.

Players arent stuck to the ground you know, mvila can go forward, infact with france i saw him go forward and scored a good strike too, We have playmakers, Alonso and Sahin can go foward, we dont have the protector, Mvila can protect the defence, our midfield is very weak and need need a type of player that can protect the defence, we dont have any problems forward.

One of the reasons i want him is Sahin, alonso is getting even more slower, Sahin is different type of alonso, he is actually a playmaker, Mvila can hang back while sahin do his thing, they will make a great due.

If we have 2 mids, then it makes sense one goes forward and the other stays back.

yes, we have sahin, alonso and granero that can go forward. and tbh, mvila wont be worse then khedria going forward. he is just 21, he can learn to be effective forward too.

i think you are exaggerating the ability of Alonso and Sahin to go forward, specially Alonso's.

what if Mvila cant learn how to go forward? what then?

I've never seen Alonso in the opposition's box.

SuperMAG wrote:yes, we have sahin, alonso and granero that can go forward. and tbh, mvila wont be worse then khedria going forward. he is just 21, he can learn to be effective forward too.

Both the 2 midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 don't have to go forward imo, only one does.

Mr Nick09 wrote:i think you are exaggerating the ability of Alonso and Sahin to go forward, specially Alonso's.

what if Mvila cant learn how to go forward? what then?

alonso yes, he might have problems, but sahin, no i saw him many times going forward with dourtmond.

by forward i dont mean go to the box and be a striker, score goals regularly etc. i mean playmake, be near the attackers / amc, loft balls past the backline and all. you know, guti / xavi type playmake.

We dont need a btb, a natural playmaker can be more effective.

As for mvila, his main job will be to protect the defence, he will learn to do more with time.

mtfootball wrote:
Both the 2 midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 don't have to go forward imo, only one does.

usually most comman tactics do that when one go forward, the other cover him and hang back, if you have 2 midfeilders capabile of contributing to the attack, thats a good thing.

Guti.

SuperMAG wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:i think you are exaggerating the ability of Alonso and Sahin to go forward, specially Alonso's.

what if Mvila cant learn how to go forward? what then?

alonso yes, he might have problems, but sahin, no i saw him many times going forward with dourtmond.

by forward i dont mean go to the box and be a striker, score goals regularly etc. i mean playmake, be near the attackers / amc, loft balls past the backline and all. you know, guti / xavi type playmake.

We dont need a btb, a natural playmaker can be more effective.

As for mvila, his main job will be to protect the defence, he will learn to do more with time.

Sure, Sahin can get forward, but his natural is to stay deep, and play from deep.

So if you team him up with a player that is only naturally comfortable staying deep, then it's a mistake in my opinion.

As of now, Sahin is not starter, Alonso is, and he is better paired with a box to box. that should be our priority.

I hope that Sahin will be a starter next season. We could use Alonso-Sahin-Ozil, with Ozil playing deeper, and try to press more when we don't have the ball. (3 players pressing the player who has the ball)

mvila is not coming and if you have watched him this year he has been pretty awful.

not even worth discussing tbh

vanDEEZ wrote:mvila is not coming and if you have watched him this year he has been pretty awful.

not even worth discussing tbh

To be rational, he hasnt been awful. He has been under what he produced the season before.

That being said, M'vila's talent cant be denied, the kid has got game. If we are on the market to replace Lass, he should be on our list.

Javi is worth no more than €15mil?

I'd rather pay 40m on Yaya than on Javi Martinez.

But City is not going to sell you Yaya, not to mention that yaya declared his love for barca just a week ago. what then?

Mr Nick09 wrote:But City is not going to sell you Yaya, not to mention that yaya declared his love for barca just a week ago. what then?

To be the best team you need a top3 midfield. Xabi and Khedira are not on Ozil's level. We need Sahin, and another midfielder. Maybe M'vila ?

the whole reason he didnt come last year is because he wanted to be a starter regardless of the club, seeing as he hasnt done nearly enough to be considered this year i find it highly improbable that he comes.

on the topic of yaya, ya of course rather buy yaya to 40m, but there is no way in hell city sells, not after he was such an integral part of their winning season. idk his buyout clause but if its low you can bet on them signing a new one where he is basically untouchable. also why would yaya come? he doesnt seem the type of guy to leave a club where he is comfortable for a club he used to be bitter rivals with. also his brother is at city which has its pull as well

The state of the market is such that there is no top midfielder available for the position and the role we need. the only names i can think of are Lucas (Liverpool) and Song (Arsenal).

So the perspective of the manager is to look for young players that will quickly develop into top players. When it comes to that discussion, you look for the best talents around, and there is no doubt to me that Mvila is an elite talent in his position.

Differentiate talent and performance. M'vila drop in performance is not tragic at all, because he is 21, and you dont expect the player you sign to be World class from day one. You just want to make sure that he has the package you feel like will convert into world class performances.

So you look at the talents out there, Martinez, M'vila, Witsel etc...

Song would be perfect.

I don't like Song defensively lately.

And Lucas is no go.

i dont think mvila is a good fit, xabi sits back which will force mvila to play in front a bit- mvila is just not this type of player. mvila sits in front of the defensive line and sweeps the area (this is a bit of a generalization i know he does more but this is what he is best at imo) he will be played out of position next to xabi