by the way shadeslayer welcome.
I haven't seen you for a long time mate

I must say I am a bit surprised by the poll.
I expected the poll to be close between Messi and Fab,as I consider both to be the best after Xavi.
Instead its between Iniesta and Messi with Fab not even having a single vote.
Very interesting.

Great question!

I voted for Fabregas, although he has as yet not shown us his full range of passing, in my opinion he is the second best passer in the side. Why do I believe this?

- There is a reason he racked up so many assists at arsenal and was being hailed as the best midfielder on the planet (not that I ever believed he was better than Xavi or Iniesta)

- He has mastery over the whole spectrum of passing. This was shown while he was playing as the fulcrum of his team. Long passes, short passes, through balls, congested passes, chip passes, over the backline balls...

- Iniesta is a great passer, however his strengths lie in his dribbiling, control and divine inspiration. He will look to unbalance the opposition with his skill set and then off lay a nice (but usually easy as he has already dribbled two people in the box) final ball.

- Like Iniesta, Messi unbalances the opposition and usually destroys them single handedly. He is the owner of arguabley the deadliest final ball and 1-2 link up play around the box but he misplaces a few too many easy balls.

- Busquets, not really in the argument as he doesn't showcase his full passing capabilities in preference of world class one touch passing.

I believe as Fabregas finds his place in the team, improves his positioning (a lot of work to do as he is a little too static and doesn't find space easily enough - however same can be argued of Xavi at his age) and improves his team link up he will begin to be the pass master in our team.

To clarify: I still believe he wasn't necessary however he is performing and Thiago is getting plenty of game time and so are the rest of the midfielders - so I can't complain.

@jijopsi, I was using that criteria to judge between Busquets and Fabregas. Between Iniesta and Messi, I take everything into consideration. Also, reading others comments I am beginning to change my judgment on Fabregas. This is indeed a very tough one.

@billy thanks for the welcome man! Have been very busy with college, hopefully I'll have more time on my hands now.

shade and svt.
Welcome back guys.And this time please dont stay away.
Both of you are terrific posters.

Alex, great job on the ideas of these threads as they bring a whole new spectrum of thought to this side.

Me? Xavi is obviously the best and that by a mile.

But 2nd best has to be Andres Iniesta.

I'll explain why.

Busi is capable of it all in terms of passing, his long range, short range, 360 awareness and timing for his pass is absolutely world class. Yet in the deep position of his, he does not face the sheer pressure cooker of enclosed space and need for more ingenuity than Andres has to face.

I'm sure in the future if he is placed in Iniesta's position, he will be able to do so, yet I have some doubt considering his not-so athletic use of his frame.

Fabregas? Plain and simple his passing is indeed world class as well, he is similar to Iniesta in sorts yet at the moment Iniesta simply does it better.

Same with Thiago as both players in there young stage of their career are simply not at the fine level of Iniesta.

Messi I do not agree with. In terms of final ball, Messi is possibly the best in the team yet Iniesta possesses a better sense of dictation, timing, patience and overall more adept in creating the build up along with his occasional stunning final balls. Messi sometimes goes for the spectacular to much while Iniesta uses his deceptive pace, consistent positioning within the pitch and his of course, his technique which catches it for me.

Growing up in a Basque academy of football, you get to see which form of passing is superior in all its beauty.

Iniesta is the CLOSEST to Xavi in that pure control on the balls movement as if he is controlling it with a remote.

He has the PERFECT degree whether to add just the right amount of top spin (Aurrera), backspin(Errotazioa), curve(curva) or a laser sight pass (kontrola llanada).

Alex, JD, and Dani, I know you guys have very keen sense of observations of these as in terms of pure technique, Iniesta is simply a level above the rest (bar Xavi). I want you guys to observe this art in motion next time you watch.

And believe me, this isn't spanish bias.

Combined with his all-round ability to produce literally anything you ask, and his pure ingenuity, he is for me hands down, the 2nd best passer in Barcelona.

I see the ability of Iniesta to correctly judge and then use the topspin, backspin, direct and curved passes..no question about that. Its amazing and he consistency in which he does it is just as amazing.

I dont think Messi goes for the final ball too much, rather, I think his position and role mean that he is in the position to attempt those passes. He add the directness and thrust none of his Spainish peers have in midfield, I would say its his role.

The reason I find it so hard is, Messi just gives so many final passes it is hard to ignore. As I said, I am sitting on the fence for this one. Its between Iniesta and Messi for me and I would rather not chose .

The Franchise wrote:I see the ability of Iniesta to correctly judge and then use the topspin, backspin, direct and curved passes..no question about that. Its amazing and he consistency in which he does it is just as amazing.

I dont think Messi goes for the final ball too much, rather, I think his position and role mean that he is in the position to attempt those passes. He add the directness and thrust none of his Spainish peers have in midfield, I would say its his role.

The reason I find it so hard is, Messi just gives so many final passes it is hard to ignore. As I said, I am sitting on the fence for this one. Its between Iniesta and Messi for me and I would rather not chose .

Glad you agree on some of the points along with your on his pass ability.

Well on Messi, its that even when he is in the midfield for Argentina, as brilliant as he is within that circle, just compared to Iniesta I don't feel he is on that spectrum that he is on.

Further elaborating, Iniesta's ability to simply dictate tempo, establish calm and consistently carve out spaces for others and of course, the quintessential build up to the play is what edges it for me.

In the academy, they taught us that going for the final ball to early is a sign of impatience and in some cases, panic. And while Messi doesn't really show that, what I can confirm is that the DUAL role of Iniesta to create/build/initiate from ground and then finish it off with his unreal final pass is the deciding factor here as the calm, tranquility, and of course the key timing and patience is once again, the clincher.

Messi has impressed numerous times yet in some vital points he squanders the essential build up made by the team, although this happens very little.

I may sound harsh here, but keep in mind this is ONLY in comparison to AI.

Iniesta on the other hand does it so rarely that I'll be impressed if someone can even find a compilation to this slight error.

Plus Iniesta's passing in clutch situations is also superior for me (atm).

Well said Arq.

Basically, Iniesta's passing in clutch situations is what made me go for him.

Dont disagree really, well said.

But im still going to sit firmly on the fence lol

Cesc hasn't really shown his full passing with barca though. Iniesta it still is for me. I'm not going to judge busquets until he plays in a position that doesn't limit his creativity.

this thread needs jiopsi to post some of messi's passes

but i will post some



the guy's dribbling outshines his passing. this season he has better passes but i could not find a video

can't BELIEVE you said messi is a better passer then cesc, or iniesta ^

alexjanosik wrote:Messi,as pointed out can be inconsistent and has the least percentage completion.But that is inevitable considering some of the passes he attempts.He should get props that he pulls off a couple of those genius passes every game.
I also dont agree that his passes dont multiple layers of defenses.Last season this might have been true.
But this season he has dropped even deeper and I remember plenty of passes where he has split multiple layers.
There is the pass against Bate to Abidal which is a contender for pass of the season.I still dont know how he saw the gap or how he pulled it off.
Then theres the one to Villa against Atletico where Villa was a shade offside.That was delivered from the halfway line.
Also dont quite agree about the range argument.I think he has shown enough range in his passing this season.Against Al Saad he played a long perfectly weighted ball over the top for Alexis and he was caught just off.I am sure there are more passes he has made like that.
Overall I believe he can comfortably play CM for us and rake up a 90 plus pass completion percentage.
He has the vision,the range and the consistency for it.
Right now the consistency is not there as he plays further up the pitch and tries the outrageous passes a bit too often.

I'm not arguing that he can't make those passes, only that he doesn't do it as often or relies on them as much. Same goes for the double-line passes, he's shown ability to make them, but as you pointed out that's been predominantly this year. Iniesta has been doing them for longer, which gives him the edge in my opinion.

alexjanosik wrote:
He is technically average compared to Xavi,Iniesta,Messi,Busquets and Thiago.
But his passing is world class and elite.

Very well put alex. I very much agree.

Arquitecto wrote:Alex, great job on the ideas of these threads as they bring a whole new spectrum of thought to this side.

Me? Xavi is obviously the best and that by a mile.

But 2nd best has to be Andres Iniesta.

I'll explain why.

Busi is capable of it all in terms of passing, his long range, short range, 360 awareness and timing for his pass is absolutely world class. Yet in the deep position of his, he does not face the sheer pressure cooker of enclosed space and need for more ingenuity than Andres has to face.

I'm sure in the future if he is placed in Iniesta's position, he will be able to do so, yet I have some doubt considering his not-so athletic use of his frame.

Fabregas? Plain and simple his passing is indeed world class as well, he is similar to Iniesta in sorts yet at the moment Iniesta simply does it better.

Same with Thiago as both players in there young stage of their career are simply not at the fine level of Iniesta.

Messi I do not agree with. In terms of final ball, Messi is possibly the best in the team yet Iniesta possesses a better sense of dictation, timing, patience and overall more adept in creating the build up along with his occasional stunning final balls. Messi sometimes goes for the spectacular to much while Iniesta uses his deceptive pace, consistent positioning within the pitch and his of course, his technique which catches it for me.

Growing up in a Basque academy of football, you get to see which form of passing is superior in all its beauty.

Iniesta is the CLOSEST to Xavi in that pure control on the balls movement as if he is controlling it with a remote.

He has the PERFECT degree whether to add just the right amount of top spin (Aurrera), backspin(Errotazioa), curve(curva) or a laser sight pass (kontrola llanada).

Alex, JD, and Dani, I know you guys have very keen sense of observations of these as in terms of pure technique, Iniesta is simply a level above the rest (bar Xavi). I want you guys to observe this art in motion next time you watch.

And believe me, this isn't spanish bias.

Combined with his all-round ability to produce literally anything you ask, and his pure ingenuity, he is for me hands down, the 2nd best passer in Barcelona.

Wow!!! So many days since I logged into this forum and when I am back I get to read a post this good. Some of the points you have made are so insightful that they would easily be ignored by many others considering the same question. The point about patience is outstanding. I will once again go back to the UCL 2011 final. Recall the second goal. It's a simple pass from Iniesta that causes it but what people will hardly ever remember is what happened before it. Most players in Iniesta's place would have released the ball much earlier and that very likely would have led to nothing productive. Instead just because Iniesta waits for the defender to drift away a little and then releases his pass when the line becomes clear creates a goal for us. It's all so simple in essence but it proves that sometimes great things are achieved not by doing something spectacular but by just keeping it simple. The other point that I really want to highlight here is the one about technique. As you have explained a player who is technically brilliant and can do various things on the ball gives himself more options in terms of choosing a pass and being able to execute it and thus catch the opposition by surprise. This is where Iniesta would clearly score above Fabregas and many other contemporary footballers.

Excellent thread as a whole. Wonderful intro by alex. Top class comments by alfred, dani, arqui and some others thereafter. When I first saw the question I too had Messi in mind and almost equally Fabregas although he hasn't shown those qualities for us yet but after reading this thread I realize it's almost impossible to choose one out of the both of them and Iniesta. I would have given Iniesta as my choice after considering everything but can't do so for one reason only. His long passing, while good, is a little inferior to that of Xavi and Fabregas. Yes he does pull off some amazing ones but he's not that consistent with them. There are times when he overhits or underhits them slightly but that makes all the difference. It's very difficult to say this as Iniesta's greatest fan but still that's my honest view about this topic at the moment.