Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

[rincon]

I'm not able to watch the game. But I see that once again Immobile is destroying us.

[Luca]

Dybala has cost us 4 points in two games on his own

We are shit, brothers

[rincon]

We look on track for our usual start of the season confusion. Were no one seems to have clear ideas and a shake up is needed. At least these early crisis are getting less dramatic (so far).

[Tomwin Lannister]

Would be amazing if we tried something extremely unorthodox like keeping all of our best players for 2 seasons in a row.

[Andrew]

Higuain
Costa - Dybala - Bernardeschi
Marchisio - Pjanic
Alex Sandro - Chiellini - Howedes - De Sciglio
Buffon

FFS, is this too much to ask?

[Luca]

Getting that 11 healthy at the same time is probably too much to ask

I'd say were in ok shape as it is. We really had the chances to win yesterday. The problem is when you don't take them and play a team capable of attacking against our frail defense then this happens.

[Warrior]

This season i try to always keep in mind what everyone was agreeing about last year: 2017-2018 will be transitional and we might not win the league.

Whilstdvt Marotta and partners have responded wisely for the attack transition, the loss of Bonucci gave us an unexpected turn of events: our defense now became our weakest line. Only Rugani and Alex Sandro are not running their last competititve miles. De Sciglio is decent at best, unconvincing. Howedes will become a starter and then we'll be solid again.

Spoiler:

[Andrew]

Getting that 11 healthy at the same time is probably too much to ask

I'd say were in ok shape as it is. We really had the chances to win yesterday. The problem is when you don't take them and play a team capable of attacking against our frail defense then this happens.

[Tomwin Lannister]

Defence is a shadow of it's former self


Midfield is getting worse and worse too. Marchisio more broken than ever, Khedira is shit after the opening 30 minutes and Matuidi is certainly not the answer to our problems.

The better Juve have become, the more reluctant our board have been to invest in the squad, I get 'job done' vibes from our transfer strategies since our first CL final. Appalling net spend and players allowed to leave at their own will without so much as even demanding another season of their services whilst we look to replace them.


Any way you look at it, the midfield and defence we had compared to what we have now, it's bad.

Like I said years ago, when the spine of this team deteriorates, our penny pinching and bargain hunting won't be enough. It was fantastic whilst the spine of Juve was World Class, but when those players need replacing, it's not going to be cheap.

Barzagli to me is finished at a top level.

Licht is just awful

Asamoah = we don't win

Benatia is pure trash

Pjanic is the only midfielder fit for the World Class tag, the rest are B tier at best.

I highly doubt both Costa and Berna will succeed here. Neither has been that impressive, hopefully Berna can at least become a solid A- player in time.

[rincon]

The midfield this season is definitely better than last season's. To just remember how our options were Pjanic, Khedira, Lemina and Sturaro for most of it is enough. Matuidi is so much better than Lemina that its embarrassing to think that we made Lemina's loan permanent. Same for Bentancur over Sturaro. Marchisio is on there whenever he is fit, which isn't too often so I don't include him either way.

There was a clear improvement there during the summer. Huge improvement in attack where we had 0 subs since Pjaca got wrecked by injuries. The only failure was at defense.

I don't get this "job done" vibe at all. Ageing cores create a transition period for any team, it doesn't mean that nothing is done about it though. Our team gets younger every year. Not to say that it can't improve more of course, just that they certainly have a vision.

At CB they invested in Benatia and Rugani. Benatia is kind of a failed transfer, that's a bad investment, but not a lack of investment. Rugani is still on track. Now they invested a lot of money on Caldara too. You can tell that Marotta expected Benatia to be at his best and for Rugani to step up.

The management doesn't get everything right but they can't be accused of not trying to improve things when they've been so successful at it. Most times an aging core of players results in a drab period, here its been a pretty smooth and successful transition.

They have been laying foundations that are either paying off, or will pay off. Some will go wrong, but that's inevitable.

Barzagli indeed reached the end.

Asamoah is useless.

Licht isn't that bad.

Benatia is pretty trash.

The good thing is all of these players have got replacements. Rugani is there. Howedes and De Sciglio are there but got injured.

Dybala, Bentancur, Sandro, Bernardeschi, Rugani, Caldara, Szczesny, Orsolini, Pjaca, Mandragora, Spinazzola, De Sciglio, Kean, Bernardeschi

They are definitely looking to the future, the first 7 are either succeeding already or surely will succeed.

On that foundation (plus the others) we can then invest to bring the team to the level needed.

[Luca]

It's kind of funny when you look at it. A few seasons ago, our problem was the attack. Last season, the problem was the midfield. This season, the problem is the defense.

I don't think Allegri has a shred of belief in Rugani which is a shame, having benched him in every important game this season.

But our centre backs are the least concerning so long as Chiellini is fit (knock on wood). He's been immense this season. The full back position options are absolutely abysmal outside of Alex Sandro.

The midfield to me is quite good, the problem is were relying on players completely new to the team, new to Italy, to form an understanding with each other and with the rest of the team. Matuidi was signed quite late, its not like he even had a preseason to build from and Bentancur, who's done well, is in his first season with Juve. Its hard to judge them too harshly when they're not playing next to Pjanic, Marchisio and Khedira. In fact, I think we win with Atalanta and Lazio if Pjanic is on the field. Of course, I could be wrong but he's been great this season and he makes the attack go that one step further.

Being able to start Dybala against Lazio also would've helped matters. Instead, we sub him into a losing match and pray that he turns it. He almost did, hitting the post and missing a penalty. He's really a beta cuck though who quite clearly isn't whomstd he thinks he is. Del Piero scores both of these for example. What bothers me isn't so much that he missed but both penalties were really bad- slow run up, not right into either corner, good height to be saved. They're the time of penalties that score only if the keeper goes the wrong way and well, neither did, so that makes him a beta cuck.

If I'm Allegri, I'm choosing Mandzukic or Higuain and going from there. Having both in the line up has proven to be a burden rather than advantage when there is Costa, Bernardeschi, Cuadrado and soon Pjaca- actual proper wingers wanting to break down the defense and make things happen. Not to mention the atrocious form of Higuain, I thought after scoring against Olympiakos and scoring a great goal against Atalanta he was back but no, he's worse than ever and can't even trap a ball these days. That chance he missed at the 1-1 when he brought himself clear on goal with some brilliance only to shoot right at the keeper is the stuff of FIFA nightmares.

It's early days but these are the things I would correct. Play through the wingers, play Rugani, pray for Pjanic to be fit for every match possible and choose which forward to play and rotate accordingly.

[rincon]

I get what you mean, still I wouldn't say that Allegri doesn't have shred of confidence in Rugani when he plays him this much. He doesn't trust him for the big stage yet, but if he didn't trust his potential and ability he wouldn't give him so many minutes.

Minutes in Serie A
Chiellini 540
Rugani 450
Benatia 270
Barzagli 238

Unless Rugani really fails this season, I think we got our next "main" CB for years to come.

[Warrior]

Nowadays i don't even know who's injured and who's not.

That being said, i hope we don't stay any longer in our old schemes of starting Barzagli/Benatia in important games. It's a thing for history books.

Howedes-Chiellini should be our starters by all logic. Rugani 3rd choice to rotate and give him experience... next year Caldara will complete the quartet.

[Luca]

But Rugani was benched versus Atalanta, Lazio and Barcelona thus far. That does not bode well with me. I'm not saying he would have been the glue to hold this back line together or raise our level but we conceded twice with Atalanta, twice with Lazio and three times with Barcelona, all with our most promising defender on the bench and a severely aging back line on the field.

There are more "small" games than "big" ones, so his minutes will be up there but regardless, I think my point has some merit. I don't think there's much to lose by playing Rugani in any or all of these games and I don't think alone he's the difference maker in any of these results but personally, I'd prefer to see him out there most nights. I'm a big fan of Barzagli and it's good to see him still playing and more reserved to these bigger moments but considering how poor our defensive record has been in these mentioned games, would Rugani be any worse? I cannot think so.

Anyways, back to the CL tomorrow it's another big game. We must win, we have to get some sort of rhythm going after two poor results in the league

[rincon]

I hope Benatia doesn't play tomorrow. I want Rugani-Chiellini too. Allegri said that for RB its either Barzagli or Sturaro. Pjanic is back.

[Luca]

I'll take a little Sturaro action, I feel like we'll need his pace there even though he's by no means an adequate option at full back for a team of our profile, injuries notwithstanding

[Warrior]

Wow... Sturaro truly is Padoin's heir at the club.

[Andrew]

I would like to see this line up against Sporting

Higuain
Costa - Dybala - Cuadrado
Matuidi - Pjanic
Alex Sandro - Chiellini - Rugani - Sturaro
Buffon

Knowing Allegri he will probably start Benatia next to Chiello, a midfield duo of Khedira and Matuidi with no creativity coming from them and Mandukic over a pure winger again

[DeviAngel]

-Barzagli - Rugani - Chiellini-
-Cuadrado - Pjanic- Matuidi- Sandro
-Berna- Higuain - Dybala-

Just do it Allegri...

[Luca]

Higuain
Dybala
Costa-Matuidi-Pjanic-Bernardeschi
Sandro-Chiellini-Rugani-Sturaro
Buffon

I think Higuain should start tomorrow with Mandzukic taking a seat for a couple simple reasons
1. He's had a couple poor displays off the wing, albeit both matches with Asamoah and Alex Sandro supporting him which is a night and day difference
2. I think it's time to select a striker and utilize the force of attacking wingers we have. We have Douglas, Bernardeschi, Cuadrado and Pjaca nearing fitness. We are not short of options here.
3. Its do or die for Higuain. Maybe its too dramatic to say his career or even his season is on the line but he can only put in so many dire displays before he's permanently dropped from this team. At least if he's playing poorly and scoring, which has been the case many times then its justified but if he is playing poorly and missing chances like the one versus one against Lazio, then he's an absolute liability.

For me, Bernardeschi had an immediate impact against Lazio. He won the penalty and he was just buzzing around the whole attacking third with great intent. Douglas was quite decent in the first half, a half we controlled and he scored. Great positives here, the bright spots of a currently faltering attack.

If Pjanic starts we will win this game, if he does not then a draw, possibly a narrow victory. I can't see us losing back to back games at home (knock on wood).

[Warrior]

Same as you Luca but with Cuadrado as right back In a realistic world, Barzagli and only for tomorrow.

[Luca]

Cuadrado as a right back doesn't seem an option Allegri has flirted with at all. Even with all the injuries and a lack of Lichtsteiner available for the Champions League, we have seen Sturaro or even Barzagli.

I wouldn't be opposed to it but its a super offensive line up and I think it loads up the right side a bit too much. Bernardeschi, Dybala and Cuadrado will all occupy the same space, we only play with one ball

[Warrior]

About our defense, i want to see Howedes before panicking. It could turn into a typical underrated Marotta transfer.

Yesterday Sturaro cost us 1 goal, again, because of his shit passing skills. He's the one to initiate the counter attack, can't even complete a 2 meter pass lol. Then Sandro was also poor, but at least him it's not all the time. One or two mistakes can be forgiven, not 60.
I bet Licht was laughing in his beard, how stupid decision it was to disrespect him like that. Look where we are now, screwed until MDS comes back

This guy might save our midfield in January, as temporary solution, since Sergej will finish the season with Lazio.

[Luca]

If we win away to Sporting then its job done, which is really nice. Of course that means were going to draw 1-1. But realistically, if we scrape a win away to Sporting, which won't be easy, then that's great for our season. Topping the group is quite obviously ideal but even if you top the group, you can immediately face a very tough draw in the shape of a Bayern Munich or Atletico Madrid type team. We can still see a favourable draw by finishing second with some luck and after that, it doesn't matter.

We have another 4 matches in 10 days:
October 22- Udinese vs. Juventus
October 25- Juventus vs. SPAL
October 28- Milan vs. Juventus
October 31- Sporting vs. Juventus

Lots of games so hopefully lots of rotation
Edit- 3 of the 4 are away matches too

[rincon]

It looks really unlikely that we get first in the group, luckily it doesn't seem like topping the group might matter much.

Current status has pot 2 looking like
Bayern
Madrid/Spurs
Napoli
Roma/Atletico

Pot 1
PSG
Barcelona
Chelsea
City
Spurs/Madrid

crossed are teams we can't play

[Luca]

I agree brother @rincon, but our form must improve by then for this conversation to have any credence. Particularly our defence, we cannot leak goals like this and especially at home.

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