Re: How much credit will Cristiano receive if Portugal win the EURO's ?

by Cruijf Sat 02 Jul 2016, 09:46

S wrote:But, its not their fault they're at the other side of the draw ? Besides werent they expected to lose to Croatia ? Why are you excluding them ? They would've only got so far if they had beaten Croatia and they have.

Whether or not they are top 3 teams in the tournament right now is irrelevant to me because its unfair to blame them for getting this path as underdog teams are beating the favourites. People would've found something to complain about had they faced Belgium too...

They're not getting this path because of underdogs though. Underdogs took Spain and England away from their side sure but they're not the heavyweights of this tournament (although Spain at least would probably beat Portugal). My problem is with France, Germany, and Italy all doing their job and winning their groups and ending up on the same side of the bracket while Portugal doesn't win a single game and ends up playing the likes of Poland and Wales.

by S Sat 02 Jul 2016, 10:08

No my point is why do you need to accuse Portugal of having an easy road when you dint even expect them to make it this far? Portugal are certainly not a heavyweight team like Germany or France. They don't have the international pedigree of Italy. They are certainly less talented than Belgium on paper. Not to mention Croatia who were perhaps the best team of the group stage and Portugal took them out. They deserve credit for that.

As for the group winners, Belgium were ranked #1 and were expected to win their group. They were the top seed not Italy. Spain dint win their group, had they done that, they would've been on the other side of the bracket facing Portugal in the knockouts. Basically at least 3 top seeded teams *bleep* up which led to Portugal benefiting from the draw. Not only Portugal but also Wales who could've easily faced France in the knockouts.

The only argument which i am in sort of agreement with is Portugal haven't played all that well. But so did Spain in Euro 2012 until they stepped up in the final. If Portugal manage to play well in the remaining rounds, how they played before this would be totally forgotten. Besides i don't understand the point of getting upset over a non- heavyweight team like Portugal getting the better end of the draw. I would understand if it was France(who've only had to play easy opponents) or Germany, not Portugal. I guess you probably feel Wales don't deserve to be in the semi based on how the draw has panned out?

by Ion Creanga Sat 02 Jul 2016, 10:19

It's not that they had an easy road for me. Is that they beat nobody FT at Euros. How can you beat nobody and reach the semi-finals?

In the league, if you keep drawing 38 games, you're in the bottom 5, fighting for relegation, yet Portugal are rewarded for this.

by titosantill Sat 02 Jul 2016, 11:25

a league is different from a knockout tournament, not a good comparison. unless you're trying to win la liga, where a draw is like a loss; you usually have the opportunity to pace yourself, pick your battles, drop points here and there, and make transfers in two windows.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sat 02 Jul 2016, 12:05

I'm not that surprised they beat Croatia tbh, outside of Modric who continues to disappoint when it really matters they are nothing special.

Anyone with sense knew Italy would beat Belgium, Spain didn't win their group because they are overrated as shit Laughing

like i said since Xavi retired their biggest claim to fame is beating Turkey. Laughing

The mere fact Portugal ( and Wales for that matter) are in the semi final says all you need to know about the quality of this tournament since they couldn't get out of the *bleep* group stage at the WC Laughing

( and they haven't changed much since then to form an argument to the contrary)

This side of the draw is *bleep* pathetic and not really worthy of praise to anyone, people want to rag on Copa America but in all honesty this tournament due to the new format is just as pathetic.

If this continues i'm honestly going to start only paying attention to the WC.

by Valkyrja Sat 02 Jul 2016, 12:15

Modric flopping in big games Laughing

Moal stuck in 2011 Proud

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sat 02 Jul 2016, 12:19

Every game i have seen anyway, i'm more than happy to take your word for it tbh but anyway it doesn't take away from the point that Croatia are not that good tbh.

To be clear though, Ronaldo deserves a lot of credit should they win and he actually performs when it matters despite my views on the tournament as a whole.

by Thimmy Sat 02 Jul 2016, 15:56

alexjanosik wrote:
Thimmy wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Given that he has been atrocious, none. If he performs well in the SF and final, then he should deservedly get all the credit.
Portugal are just lucky they are not in the other half of the draw.
surag talking about service. Thats the difference between the GOATS and CR. The GOATS dont need service to make something happen. CR does.

How am I supposed to convince anyone that I don't give a shit about CR, when people write nonsensical posts like this? FFS

He has been diabolically bad besides the Hungary game. And he needs service, else he looks nowhere near elite. Madrid can provide him service throughout the 90 min. Portugal cant. And he looks painfully average for Portugal.

I agree, he's had a shitty tournament. He mostly had a shitty season for his club, also, despite winning the Champions League. At 31, he's past his prime. His speed and agility aren't that great, and I don't know if you've noticed, but he's become more of a poacher in recent years. Which is great, because it was a huge pain to watch him attempt to dribble past multiple opponent players a thousand times before he finally seemed to realize that he's not as agile anymore. With that being said, he didn't rely on service when he pretty much single-handedly trashed Wolfsburg, only a few months ago. I suppose he's still somewhat capable of beating opponents when he puts his heart into it.

I don't like CR. His flaws are quite obvious for everyone to see, and I'm sick and tired of his antics and recurring tendency to waste chances when he gets frustrated, but it doesn't make sense to me that you'd suddenly and opportunistically start comparing him to past GOATS when he's having a poor tournament in the latter stages of his career.

I've never been a fan of his, but looking back at his career, you'd have to be blind not to see that he's a top talent who's capable of trashing opponent teams on his own. Once upon a time, that used to be a classic argument in his favor, whenever his rival was mentioned. I would love to see an individual do everything on their own in this tournament, as most of the European teams have been playing cynical, defensive-minded football, and I've even fallen asleep during a few of these matches.

by messixaviesta Sat 09 Jul 2016, 15:40

If that happens my guess is that he will become in Portuguese football history what Maradona is for Argentina - a demi god with a status that goes unchallenged forever.

by Thimmy Sat 09 Jul 2016, 16:56

messixaviesta wrote:If that happens my guess is that he will become in Portuguese football history what Maradona is for Argentina - a demi god with a status that goes unchallenged forever.

I highly doubt he will be held in such high esteem, if they do win the tournament. His individual performance has been sub-par, even by his own standard, and I personally believe it's the weakest, European tournament I've seen in my lifetime. I may be wrong, but it sounds to me that you're indirectly saying that it's relatively easy to be considered a "demi-god". I'm sure he would be recognized for being part of the side who won the tournament, but his performances haven't been good enough to warrant a Maradona- like status, even for Portugal. Of course, his performance in the final may have a significant impact on his legacy, but I still don't think the majority of the Portuguese people will change their opinion about him.

by Pedram Sat 09 Jul 2016, 17:03

It depends on how he performs in the final tbh, if he plays a decisive role for his team and score a couple of goals everyone will forget the fact that he had sub par performances in the rest of the matches, people have short memories.

by zigra Sat 09 Jul 2016, 17:13

It's not that easy to gain a status like Maradona. Van Basten was a star in the first and only major win for the Netherlands and he was a club-superstar aswell yet he's nowhere near Cruyff who won zero trophies with the national team.
Of course the fact that it's "only" a EC plays a part aswell.

Ronaldo deserves the status because he elevated the portugal national team to a whole new level and could win the trophy on top of that but the media playing down his achievements and the fact that people always considered Portugal as a major football nation despite them achieving nothing is likely to ruin that.