Most full-backs are failed wingers, true or false?

Unique wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:I'm quite confident that world-class talents like Marcelo and Alves can play as wingers or midfielders at a very high level. They are both very complete footballers.

one of the worst defenders ive ever seen. if he was at a mid table club in a top lge he wouldent get a game.

Too bad he is not

Art Morte wrote:I think people are giving full-backs too much credit for things that require very little skill or talent
Like, positioning and man-marking, these aren't actually difficult things per se. Or pace and stamina, these are only combination of genes and training, nothing to do with talent. Learning and mastering dribbling, accurate & powerful shooting, finishing, creative passing and vision, tricks... These are much, much more difficult to master.

Or lets put it this way: if all of the world's wingers started playing full-back and all the full-backs started to play winger, it is the ex-wingers playing full-back who would collectively look better than the ex-full-backs who were now playing wingers. Defending is simply easier than attacking.

How is that so? Why is dribbling and shooting more to do with talent that positioning and stamina?

If positioning and vision of the game were easy then why is it so hard to find players with it? Busquets and Marchisio are examples of top positioning, put anyone else in their shoes and the gaps are evident. If you could just train for that then it wouldn't be so uncommon. Pirlo was never fast but he was always at the right place to close down space cause he saw the game better than the rest. Inzaghi, Gomez or Muller have the capability to be extremely useful players in world class teams entirely based on finishing and positioning.

Marcelo and Dani Alves train just as much as anyone out there I'm sure, but they still get caught out of position so much. Why are some players so fast and can run forever while others can barely last a game? thats talent as well. Physicality is probably the main talent Cristiano has. Fullbacks combine all that.

Like a poster above said. There are many fullbacks that could have been successful elsewhere. Maldini, Zambrotta, Lahm, Marcelo, Cafu, etc.

Art Morte wrote:I think people are giving full-backs too much credit for things that require very little skill or talent
Like, positioning and man-marking, these aren't actually difficult things per se. Or pace and stamina, these are only combination of genes and training, nothing to do with talent. Learning and mastering dribbling, accurate & powerful shooting, finishing, creative passing and vision, tricks... These are much, much more difficult to master.

Or lets put it this way: if all of the world's wingers started playing full-back and all the full-backs started to play winger, it is the ex-wingers playing full-back who would collectively look better than the ex-full-backs who were now playing wingers. Defending is simply easier than attacking.

It is not as simple as that.
The thing that comes most naturally to every footballer is passing and running. Guess what is dribbling? A combination of ball control, running and passing.
Guess what is finishing? A stronger form of passing the ball.

Man-marking and positioning is a skill that is harder to learn, and only comes later in legit training after passing and kicking and finishing.

And then it also mostly depends on the individual. Some are just naturally better at attacking and some naturally better at defending. So which part of the game is harder to implement into your game would depend on the individual.

Art Morte wrote:I think people are giving full-backs too much credit for things that require very little skill or talent
Like, positioning and man-marking, these aren't actually difficult things per se. Or pace and stamina, these are only combination of genes and training, nothing to do with talent. Learning and mastering dribbling, accurate & powerful shooting, finishing, creative passing and vision, tricks... These are much, much more difficult to master.

Or lets put it this way: if all of the world's wingers started playing full-back and all the full-backs started to play winger, it is the ex-wingers playing full-back who would collectively look better than the ex-full-backs who were now playing wingers. Defending is simply easier than attacking.

Defending is simply easier than attacking? Tell that to a left-back facing a certain Lionel Messi, or a right-back facing a certain Cristiano Ronaldo, for example. As I stated before, some players are just more naturally gifted in some aspects of the game than other players. If you tried to turn an 18 yo Cristiano Ronaldo into a fullback, do you think he would ever develop into a world-class fullback? That's extremely unlikely!

El Blanco Madridista wrote:

Art Morte wrote:I think people are giving full-backs too much credit for things that require very little skill or talent
Like, positioning and man-marking, these aren't actually difficult things per se. Or pace and stamina, these are only combination of genes and training, nothing to do with talent. Learning and mastering dribbling, accurate & powerful shooting, finishing, creative passing and vision, tricks... These are much, much more difficult to master.

Or lets put it this way: if all of the world's wingers started playing full-back and all the full-backs started to play winger, it is the ex-wingers playing full-back who would collectively look better than the ex-full-backs who were now playing wingers. Defending is simply easier than attacking.

Defending is simply easier than attacking? Tell that to a left-back facing a certain Lionel Messi, or a right-back facing a certain Cristiano Ronaldo, for example. As I stated before, some players are just more naturally gifted in some aspects of the game than other players. If you tried to turn an 18 yo Cristiano Ronaldo into a fullback, do you think he would ever develop into a world-class fullback? That's extremely unlikely!

yeah its very likely cr can play as a world class full back. He will learn some offside rules, will take some man marking classes.and thats it

But put ramos or pepe in attack no matter how much they train they will never be world class attacker.

I mean against arsenal messi could not dribble past sanchez (an attacker) but he was toying with their defenders. Or watch messi himself defending show on youtube he steals the ball from opponent better than pique or alves

rincon wrote:
How is that so? Why is dribbling and shooting more to do with talent that positioning and stamina?

Honestly, man?
You think that defensive positioning takes as much practice as dribbling or shooting to become a top-5 in the world in it? And stamina, wtf? That's got nothing to do with talent, it's just genes and training. It's ridiculous to compare stamina to technical skill on the ball. The latter is just a million times harder to achieve.

Physicality isn't a talent, it's something that most full-backs are required to achieve if they want to keep their place in the team. Anyone can gain physicality at almost any age, but you can only significantly develop your technical skills when you're under 20.

El Gunner wrote:
Man-marking and positioning is a skill that is harder to learn, and only comes later in legit training after passing and kicking and finishing.

Man-marking and positioning are harder to learn than dribbling, shooting and other technical skills? Really? Does anyone else believe this? Mastering technical skills is the hardest thing in football.

El Blanco Madridista wrote:
Defending is simply easier than attacking? Tell that to a left-back facing a certain Lionel Messi, or a right-back facing a certain Cristiano Ronaldo, for example. As I stated before, some players are just more naturally gifted in some aspects of the game than other players. If you tried to turn an 18 yo Cristiano Ronaldo into a fullback, do you think he would ever develop into a world-class fullback? That's extremely unlikely!

Defending is simply easier than attacking, yes. Of course, if you're going to use Messi as an example it's easy to say "look how difficult defending is, no one can stop Messi". Messi is the best player in the world one-against-one, is it sensible to use him as an example?

Here's my example: If you took a random somewhat fit bloke off the street and put him defendind 100 times against the 100th best winger in the world, that random bloke would win a few of those 1-on-1s as a defender. But if put him as the attacker against the world's 100th best full-back, he would not beat him even once. Why? Because defending is easier than attacking. I mean, come on, if you're the attacker, you don't only need to beat the defender physically, you also need to control the ball. Attacking is by default much more difficult than defending.

Art Morte wrote:

rincon wrote:
How is that so? Why is dribbling and shooting more to do with talent that positioning and stamina?

Honestly, man?
You think that defensive positioning takes as much practice as dribbling or shooting to become a top-5 in the world in it? And stamina, wtf? That's got nothing to do with talent, it's just genes and training. It's ridiculous to compare stamina to technical skill on the ball. The latter is just a million times harder to achieve.

What is the difference between genes and talent? its literally the same thing. If one is predisposed to be better at something, then it is due to genes. And we call that talent.

Of course it takes as much practice to be top in the world in any of these aspects. How have so many defenders who play defender every day of their lives, not mastered the art if there is no talent involved?

Chiellini has been a defender his whole life, yet his positioning is noticeably worse than Barzagli. Why? Talent. These are 2 fully developed players, yet there is a clear difference in different capabilities. How can Varane burst into the scene at Madrid with 10 years less of experience and impress next to guys like Ramos and Pepe? Its just as dificult to master the details of defending as it is attacking, and one has to have a predisposition (talent, genes) to it.

There was an interview with Sneijder when he is used to play for Inter, around the time of the 2010 world cup. It was about his upbringing and training as a youth player in the Netherlands. He said that as a kid he'd get this belt with a rope tied to a football. He couldn't go home until he juggled it 100 times (or a similar number) with his left foot. Nowadays Sneijder has a perfect left foot and looks as 2-footed as anyone out there. Thats 100% training, he wasn't born ambidextrous, he trained for it.

Same for defending. In interviews with Milan's defense in the times of Sacchi (by Baresi or Tasotti, I forgot) they always say that they practiced so much that they all new exactly where the other 3 were (Maldini, Baresi, Tasotti, Costacurta) and where they should be relative to the movement of the game. Their movement, teamwork and reading of the game became second nature after so much training together. Same thing as Sneijder. Talent and crazy hard work.

If any of these things were easier, they wouldn't get paid as much.

rincon wrote:

Art Morte wrote:

rincon wrote:
How is that so? Why is dribbling and shooting more to do with talent that positioning and stamina?

Honestly, man?
You think that defensive positioning takes as much practice as dribbling or shooting to become a top-5 in the world in it? And stamina, wtf? That's got nothing to do with talent, it's just genes and training. It's ridiculous to compare stamina to technical skill on the ball. The latter is just a million times harder to achieve.

What is the difference between genes and talent? its literally the same thing. If one is predisposed to be better at something, then it is due to genes. And we call that talent.

Of course it takes as much practice to be top in the world in any of these aspects. How have so many defenders who play defender every day of their lives, not mastered the art if there is no talent involved?

Chiellini has been a defender his whole life, yet his positioning is noticeably worse than Barzagli. Why? Talent. These are 2 fully developed players, yet there is a clear difference in different capabilities. How can Varane burst into the scene at Madrid with 10 years less of experience and impress next to guys like Ramos and Pepe? Its just as dificult to master the details of defending as it is attacking, and one has to have a predisposition (talent, genes) to it.

There was an interview with Sneijder when he is used to play for Inter, around the time of the 2010 world cup. It was about his upbringing and training as a youth player in the Netherlands. He said that as a kid he'd get this belt with a rope tied to a football. He couldn't go home until he juggled it 100 times (or a similar number) with his left foot. Nowadays Sneijder has a perfect left foot and looks as 2-footed as anyone out there. Thats 100% training, he wasn't born ambidextrous, he trained for it.

Same for defending. In interviews with Milan's defense in the times of Sacchi (by Baresi or Tasotti, I forgot) they always say that they practiced so much that they all new exactly where the other 3 were (Maldini, Baresi, Tasotti, Costacurta) and where they should be relative to the movement of the game. Their movement, teamwork and reading of the game became second nature after so much training together. Same thing as Sneijder. Talent and crazy hard work.

If any of these things were easier, they wouldn't get paid as much.

Nah, all defenders are just failed *insert more offensive position here*