Re: UEFA League of Nations in 2018-2019

by che Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:46 pm

i like when my posts from half a year ago are relevant

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idiotic idea... the timespan of 6 teams having to play each other on top of playing international qualifications and intercontinental friendlies would be at least two years, probably more, so why even bother when you have the euro where everyone and their mother already participate... secondly, nobody would watch the matches beyond the first group, maaaaybe first two at a stretch... spain, germany, italy, france, netherlands, england; portugal, and... switzerland? belgium? sounds incredibly exciting... not to mention the inevitable group 4 or 5 which would probably consist of latvia, albania, slovakia and finland playing each other... just shoot me now

by chinomaster182 Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:34 pm

sportsczy wrote:Also, every NT can rise to the top because it's about nationality... a NT can't buy the best players. It's not like club football where it's always the same teams because they have the most money and can buy the best players. You can have a golden generation of Belgium players for example that can compete for a NT crown whereas no club in Belgium can ever compete for CL.

So much purer.

Lets back up here for a bit, really whens the last time this golden generation leading an nt thing happen? Greece? Uruguay? Where did this logic come that maybe one day 11 WC players will spawn in say... Slovakia of all places and not in bigger, richer countries like Germany? And even if that extremely unlikely event where to happen, do they even have the infrastructure, experience and leadership required to guide them to glory?

Theres a reason why the same countries win again and again and again, lets not pretend like NT football is somehow fair, this golden belgium generation for example is destined for good things but i dont think they can win any competitions at all.

We even have the golden generation thing having worked a bit for Cruyffs Ajax and Fergies United. Nowadays Ajax is a talent factory, fans know they might enjoy golden players for a bit until they move on, Smaller NT fans should feel the same way.

by sportsczy Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:45 pm

You get a suprise team in the semis of a major NT competitions all the time.

You had Croatia in the semis at 1998 WC
You had Portugal, who was considered a lesser NT at the time, in the 2000 Euro semis
You had Turkey and South Korea in the 2002 WC semis
Greece won the 2004 Euro and the Tcheks made the semis too
2006 WC went mostly with the world powers at the time... no surprises there
2008 Euro you had Russia and Turkey in the semis
2010 WC you had Uruguay in the semis
2012 Euro didn't have surprises

Not to mention that NT games are always hard fought and very competitive. You don't have the massive gap in talent.

Now, let's look at CL. You had Dortmund last season.... and then how far back do you need to go to find another unexpected team in the semis? It's just not that competitive. The final 4 in CL is pretty much decided between 6-8 teams always. It used to be more. But with the explosion of transfer fees, the concentration of power has become predictable and extreme over the past few years and that's not going to change. Money is always going to talk in club football.

by chinomaster182 Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:01 pm

But these smaller nations almost never actually challenge the title and its almost a once in a lifetime thing that they actually win something.

Olympiakos was a hair away from getting into the ro8 this current cl, schalke got in the the semis just recently and cska moscu also got some decent results some years ago. Porto actually won the whole damn thing with Mourinho and in that same tournament Monaco was in the final and Deportivo la coruña made some waves.

I understand the point of course, money speaks very loudly in club football, but maybe you lack perspective coming from a first world european country, money has always spoken very loudly at the nt level too.

Of course money isnt the be all, and all, but poor countries have a herculean task to overcome to actually win anything of note, a golden generation is only one of the many stars that have to align, just ask England fans how their own golden generation fared.

by Art Morte Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:11 pm

sportsczy wrote:NT friendlies were a complete waste of time. If you're not adding games, eliminating friendlies AND adding meaningful NT competition.... what the f else do you want in life ffs

It's not a meaningful competition. What nation would actually celebrate winning this thing? It's glorified friendlies with the motive that this way there's perhaps more money to be made out of them. I've got no problem with changing the format of international friendlies, but I've got a problem with it if football fans actually start considering this a meaningful addition to NT competitions.

by sportsczy Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:18 pm

Oh believe me... every NT wants bragging rights to trophies. I also assume that there will a lot of money involved for the national federations if they do well so they will push hard. It will also likely have a massive impact on UEFA and FIFA rankings, which are critical for the Euro and WC.

It also says that the winner of this event in the years between the Euro competition gets an auto bid to the Euro.... which is huge.

Plenty to play for.

by Art Morte Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:25 pm

Even if there's plenty to play for in terms of money (is there, really? Do FA's get money for doing well in the WC's and Euros?), co-efficient rankings or tournament bids, there's still zero to play for in terms of actual prestige and glory, imho.

by che Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:25 pm

sportsczy wrote:

Now, let's look at CL. You had Dortmund last season.... and then how far back do you need to go to find another unexpected team in the semis?

two years, schalke... and lyon the year before that

It's just not that competitive. The final 4 in CL is pretty much decided between 6-8 teams always. It used to be more. But with the explosion of transfer fees, the concentration of power has become predictable and extreme over the past few years and that's not going to change. Money is always going to talk in club football.

why would neutral fans care about this though? if i'm not belgian i don't give a shit if belgium do well in the world cup... this is like people saying la liga is terrible because the top two teams keep rolling it over... the problem is that when you're assessing whether a league/tournament is interesting or not you don't look at spreadsheets with results, you actually watch the games, and international football is objectively worse in that regard, even the top level

it's all well and good that a game can provide you with an underdog storyline but if they don't support that with an attractive level of play i don't see why people who don't support that team should be remotely interested... are you honestly trying to tell me that you enjoyed greece's run in 2004?

and yeah as far as prestige goes, this is the emirates cup of international football lol

by sportsczy Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:31 pm

You don't because you're Spanish and you're blessed with a great NT and a great league. But for countries that don't have either (most of Europe), NT brings them relevance like Belgium, Croatia, Russia, etc. That's a much larger public in Europe.

I should rephrase by saying that it's always a team from the top 5-6 leagues that make the later rounds in CL. EPL, La Liga, Bundi, Seria A, Ligue 1 and Portuguese league. That's just 5-6 countries. NT football brings in everyone.

by che Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:43 pm

sportsczy wrote:You don't because you're Spanish and you're blessed with a great NT and a great league. But for countries that don't have either (most of Europe), NT brings them relevance like Belgium, Croatia, Russia, etc. That's a much larger public in Europe.

i'm not spanish... and based on the response to the qualification results against the teams slovakia would be likely to play in this system, i can tell you that beating latvia and armenia in some faux-friendly competition would not get anybody's spirits up

I should rephrase by saying that it's always a team from the top 5-6 leagues that make the later rounds in CL. EPL, La Liga, Bundi, Seria A, Ligue 1 and Portuguese league. That's just 5-6 countries. NT football brings in everyone.

that's a cheap cop out... these teams all have entirely different players and if you're making the "brings in everyone" argument entirely different sets of fans... you can't lump them together as if they don't provide competition just because they're from the same countries

by Onyx Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:43 pm

Definitely much more interesting than generic regular friendlies. Makes everything more much competitive.

Only thing is, would it only run in the summer? Surely international teams should be playing all year round.

by Arquitecto Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:52 pm

Sports, the mixed reactions on this thread actually have more to do with the nationalities of the ones who oppose against this, then actual despair, in my opinion.

For it:
Me
Sportsczy-France
Ganso-Brazil
Mole-England
Robes-Italia

Opposers
Art Morte-Finland
Chino-Mexico (won't get to participate)
Che-Slovakia

Teams of the opposer's will be in their own respective divisions battling it out with teams in measure of their own level.

So in essence, I can understand why there isn't much incentive for the countries whom aren't in the upper hierarchies.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:05 pm

I'm for it mainly because of the fact friendlies are pointless tbh.

If you can replace them with games that actually mean something then all good.

by El Chelsea Fuerte Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:12 pm

What's the point of this? It's never going to be approved.

by sportsczy Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:23 pm

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:What's the point of this? It's never going to be approved.

It's already been approved. All the FAs of Europe who are members of UEFA approved it. Read the article.

by sportsczy Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:25 pm

Arquitescu wrote:Sports, the mixed reactions on this thread actually have more to do with the nationalities of the ones who oppose against this, then actual despair, in my opinion.

For it:
Me
Sportsczy-France
Ganso-Brazil
Mole-England
Robes-Italia

Opposers
Art Morte-Finland
Chino-Mexico (won't get to participate)
Che-Slovakia

Teams of the opposer's will be in their own respective divisions battling it out with teams in measure of their own level.

So in essence, I can understand why there isn't much incentive for the countries whom aren't in the upper hierarchies.

The thing is, there's relegation and promotions every year. That's the point. The last place NTs in one year's competition get relegated and the top teams of the lower NT division come up. It's beautiful Proud

by El Chelsea Fuerte Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:28 pm

sportsczy wrote:
El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:What's the point of this? It's never going to be approved.
It's already been approved. All the FAs of Europe who are members of UEFA approved it. Read the article.

nvm thought they were changing the club format hmm

by farfan Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:30 pm

the relevance of this competition will be determined by financial incentives ( or lack of ).

by sportsczy Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:30 pm

@Che. How is it cop out. UEFA has 54 member associations. Yet only 5-6 of those associations are represented in the later rounds of the CL. Don't you think everyone else feels left out? Not saying that all 54 members are competitive or will be. But i would say half are. Just look at Euro qualifying. It's a dog fight.

by El Gunner Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:31 pm

sportsczy wrote:Who cares about club football tbh... NT football was always the greatest competitions for me and it was the unquestioned holy grail of footy until the late 90s. It's only been in the last 15 years where club football has caught up and maybe overtaken NT footy.

This rebalances things, which is great.

NT football is by far the purest. Why? You can't manufacture teams by putting all the best players in just a few teams. Even the most powerful NTs will always have flaws. You really get to see which players are truly great and which managers are the best...

pls go

by sportsczy Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:32 pm

farfan wrote:the relevance of this competition will be determined by financial incentives ( or lack of ).

A lot more than that. This will eventually replace the Euro qualifying rounds imo AND the winner of this gets an auto-bid to the Euro. Don't need more incentive than that. But there will be big financial incentives i'm sure.

by farfan Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:39 pm

sportsczy wrote:
farfan wrote:the relevance of this competition will be determined by financial incentives ( or lack of ).
A lot more than that. This will eventually replace the Euro qualifying rounds imo AND the winner of this gets an auto-bid to the Euro. Don't need more incentive than that. But there will be big financial incentives i'm sure.

i like the idea .

administrative bodies of other continents need to follow .

by M99 Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:48 pm

I'm totally for this. NT football>>>>club football always for me, since I first start watching football. This system sounds so much better than the random friendlies. It will be great if all continents follow suit.

by chinomaster182 Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:05 am

by McLewis Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am

I don't have a dog in this race obviously, but this is good for NT football from the sounds of it. It gives these international breaks that aren't qualifiers some actual competitiveness. Will it give them importance? I'm not so sure right now.

I just wonder on the footballing impact of this decision though. Coach used friendlies as a chance to really tinker and experiment with their squads, call up players they wouldn't normally call up in bigger tournaments etc. A tournament like this could put an end to that as many will be less likely to do that as freely as they would on meaningless friendlies.

by rwo power Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:01 am

McLewis wrote:I just wonder on the footballing impact of this decision though. Coach used friendlies as a chance to really tinker and experiment with their squads, call up players they wouldn't normally call up in bigger tournaments etc. A tournament like this could put an end to that as many will be less likely to do that as freely as they would on meaningless friendlies.

That's my fear, too.

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