Madrid vs Barcelona & other clubs

How do you think Madrid will fare against Barcelona this year without Xabi Alonso and Oezil? HOw do you think they will line up vs the top sides?

Alonso didn't really perform against Barca anyway. Also he shouldn't be starting anyway this season. He's limited. Modric offers much more.

In terms of Ozil, I think his creativity will be missed, especially his final pass.

Yohan Modric wrote:Alonso didn't really perform against Barca anyway. Also he shouldn't be starting anyway this season. He's limited. Modric offers much more.

In terms of Ozil, I think his creativity will be missed, especially his final pass.

Illarramendi will start against Barca in the pivot, not Modric.

Valkyrja wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Alonso didn't really perform against Barca anyway. Also he shouldn't be starting anyway this season. He's limited. Modric offers much more.

In terms of Ozil, I think his creativity will be missed, especially his final pass.

Illarramendi will start against Barca in the pivot, not Modric.

Is that the kid that was scared to play because he cost so much?

Xabi Alonso is .. limited? Tbh. If that was face to face i would lmfao , honestly

Btw , is Ancelotti still playing Isco as CMF ? Haven't seen Real play lately

Dante wrote:Xabi Alonso is .. limited? Tbh. If that was face to face i would lmfao , honestly

Btw , is Ancelotti still playing Isco as CMF ? Haven't seen Real play lately

Alonso is limited because he can't dribble ... But people forget all the other things he has on Modric

I get it that time will catch up with everyone , but limited is something else entirely , a word which you describe scrubs , not Xabi Alonso.

In any case . Is Ancelotti still playing Isco as cmf ?

Dante wrote:I get it that time will catch up with everyone , but limited is something else entirely , a word which you describe scrubs , not Xabi Alonso.

In any case . Is Ancelotti still playing Isco as cmf ?

He has played LM till the last 2-3 games. Now he's playing in Iniesta's position , attacking CM. not a 10.

Limited doesn't mean the player is poor or anything. Just means in Alonso's case he's slow, can't deal with being pressed and can only playmake from deep.

Alonso's getting on a bit and requires someone like Khedira next to him. An Alonso-Khedira midfield is just awful, as witnessed in the Mourinho era.

Yohan Modric wrote:Limited doesn't mean the player is poor or anything. Just means in Alonso's case he's slow, can't deal with being pressed and can only playmake from deep.

Alonso's getting on a bit and requires someone like Khedira next to him. An Alonso-Khedira midfield is just awful, as witnessed in the Mourinho era.

Maybe he's slow physically. Mentally he is 'faster' than anybody else in our team. His leadership, organizational skills, composure, defensive skills, tactical awareness are greatly missed.

Tbh , i find that awkward by Ancelotti.  

You see , there's no Iniesta's position . A CM has certain duties to see off and those mainly depend on what he can do and on the tactics enabled , there's no Iniesta's position .. Iniesta is an attacking midfielder and he begins games deeper because of Messi and because he has a deep connection with Xavi , he helps him out and they both make their lifes easier when near each other , thus controlling the game when in possesion . Real doesn't have a Xavi and much more importantly , even if i accept that Modric does the part well enough for Real , Real doesn't have what Xavi and Iniesta have on the field with Isco-Modric .

Iniesta's best game still comes near the penalty area , cm and whatnot . You may say and rightfully so , that's what Isco is supposed to do as well. Fair enough , but here's what i argue about. Iniesta may find himself a bit deeper when the attack begins , but he still plays AMF when he reaches that zone near the penalty area. Iniesta has the patience , the vision and the help from the system(and a certain Xavi) to do this effectively and although it's extremely difficult to be consistent in such a role , imho he has done it like no other . But most important of all , the deep runs with the ball that are required from the AMF , are Messi's responsibility in the first place and so , it actually is a bonus to have a player like Iniesta playing deeper and still having everything a canonical AMF would do in Messi .

That doesn't happen in Real's case . Who's going to make those runs with the ball like Ozil did ? There's only one player to do that through the axis and that is Isco . Having said that , you could say Bale / Di Maria and up to an extend Ronaldo can do this and i would agree , even though it's different to do this on the wings .. I suppose since your best players are on the wings , Ancelotti wants them to cut in with/without the ball as much as possible and thus overload the opponents area and hurt them this way .. If they can do it well and Isco can deal with the added responsibilities , then fine , i have nothing else to say.

What happens though when they fail ? Then Isco has to act as a canonical CM and then lmfao. When Messi fails with his run in , and that doesn't happen often , the ball is in front of the penalty area 9 out of 10 times and Iniesta has enough time to press and close down space properly , even help retain the ball straight away some times. When Bale / Di Maria / Ronaldo lose the ball on the wings , all hell breaks loose on the counter , especially when it's Ronaldo .

Anyway despite all that , it can still work , especially when Bale finds some form , but it will take time imo .

Valkyrja wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Limited doesn't mean the player is poor or anything. Just means in Alonso's case he's slow, can't deal with being pressed and can only playmake from deep.

Alonso's getting on a bit and requires someone like Khedira next to him. An Alonso-Khedira midfield is just awful, as witnessed in the Mourinho era.

Maybe he's slow physically. Mentally he is 'faster' than anybody else in our team. His leadership, organizational skills, composure, defensive skills, tactical awareness are greatly missed.

Maybe those skills are missed, however in this case the actual footballing skills are more important.

Dante wrote:Tbh , i find that awkward by Ancelotti.  

You see , there's no Iniesta's position . A CM has certain duties to see off and those mainly depend on what he can do and on the tactics enabled , there's no Iniesta's position .. Iniesta is an attacking midfielder and he begins games deeper because of Messi and because he has a deep connection with Xavi , he helps him out and they both make their lifes easier when near each other , thus controlling the game when in possesion . Real doesn't have a Xavi and much more importantly , even if i accept that Modric does the part well enough for Real , Real doesn't have what Xavi and Iniesta have on the field with Isco-Modric .

Iniesta's best game still comes near the penalty area , cm and whatnot . You may say and rightfully so , that's what Isco is supposed to do as well. Fair enough , but here's what i argue about. Iniesta may find himself a bit deeper when the attack begins , but he still plays AMF when he reaches that zone near the penalty area. Iniesta has the patience , the vision and the help from the system(and a certain Xavi) to do this effectively and although it's extremely difficult to be consistent in such a role , imho he has done it like no other . But most important of all , the deep runs with the ball that are required from the AMF , are Messi's responsibility in the first place and so , it actually is a bonus to have a player like Iniesta playing deeper and still having everything a canonical AMF would do in Messi .

That doesn't happen in Real's case . Who's going to make those runs with the ball like Ozil did ? There's only one player to do that through the axis and that is Isco . Having said that , you could say Bale / Di Maria and up to an extend Ronaldo can do this and i would agree , even though it's different to do this on the wings .. I suppose since your best players are on the wings , Ancelotti wants them to cut in with/without the ball as much as possible and thus overload the opponents area and hurt them this way .. If they can do it well and Isco can deal with the added responsibilities , then fine , i have nothing else to say.

What happens though when they fail ? Then Isco has to act as a canonical CM and then lmfao. When Messi fails with his run in , and that doesn't happen often , the ball is in front of the penalty area 9 out of 10 times and Iniesta has enough time to press and close down space properly , even help retain the ball straight away some times. When Bale / Di Maria / Ronaldo lose the ball on the wings , all hell breaks loose on the counter , especially when it's Ronaldo .

Anyway despite all that , it can still work , especially when Bale finds some form , but it will take time imo .

Good point. Bale/Ronaldo aren't exactly the best dribblers, so they should cut their losses and rely on positioning/runs to score goals.

Also if Benzema does get sold, we can go for someone more nifty like Suarez/Aguero.

Yohan Modric wrote:Limited doesn't mean the player is poor or anything. Just means in Alonso's case he's slow, can't deal with being pressed and can only playmake from deep.

Alonso's getting on a bit and requires someone like Khedira next to him. An Alonso-Khedira midfield is just awful, as witnessed in the Mourinho era.

Once again , that's not it . Did you even see Xabi play at Liverpool or with Spain for that matter ? How can you expect stuff from him that never were his strong points? Xabi always played his game deeper like that and he was never a fast player. He was and i suppose he still is quick in thinking , executing and taking the best decisions and that's what his game is supposed to be. Precise and effective from the deep , others have to dribble and drive the ball , nothing to do with him.

Not limited . The exact , incredibly far away from that . I am not denying he's slow and all that you don't like , but it's not like that it was sooo much different in the past with him and he has always been a great player.

Ideally we need a player that doesn't have Alonso's weaknesses. Someone mobile, someone who can playmake B2B, can dribble etc.

Where and who would he play with if he was to start right now?

Also for Spain I always wondered why they needed Alonso. There was no need for 2 deep players. Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta was a proven midfield.

You could say they were exposed defensively at the Confederations Cup, but that wasn't due to Alonso not playing. That was because of Spain sitting back and not pressing properly.

Yohan Modric wrote:Good point. Bale/Ronaldo aren't exactly the best dribblers, so they should cut their losses and rely on positioning/runs to score goals.

Also if Benzema does get sold, we can go for someone more nifty like Suarez/Aguero.

But they can't stop , that's the thing . If they do , who's going to drive the ball forward , something you really miss on the field after Ozil . Obviously all of Isco , Modric , Bale and Di Maria can do this. But it's big risk if Isco/Bale lose the ball in the middle of the park , whilst when Ozil lost the ball it was quite further up front and he also had at least two midfielders behind him ready to press and regain it. I suppose he felt much more confident , knowing they would cover for him too.

For this to work as it should , both Bale and Di Maria have to be on top form and make as many deep runs as they can. Ronaldo is so direct nowdays he doesn't even bother much with all that , he's almost playing CF lmfao.

lmfao , why not play Ronaldo CF and let Di Maria and Bale on the wings? Then replace Xabi Alonso with Benzema and Isco and Modric in front of him .. La Decima .

Again that's actually another weakness of Alonso. He plays in the DM area, yet he isn't good enough to play there on his own without a defensive player. I guess I'm starting to criticise the actually DLP position now though. I much prefer a CM.

Anyway if Di Maria/Isco/Modric lose the ball, it's still possible to press properly and regain the ball.

In terms of Ronaldo, I don't think he likes playing as the lone striker.

You realize that, Xabi-Khedira in pivot won a La liga and one Copa ? Modric/Isco which aren't even sure starters, are yet to win anything.

It was just an expression, that's all. Although Ronaldo does move as a second striker , more than often.

In any case , you need to have again those deep runs Ozil left orphan when he left for Arsenal. Isco can do this , but not as a CM . He just can't , not only the risk is too much but also the position don't favour him . Real will have to depend on Bale and Di Maria , Ronaldo ain't going to do this for others and he's not exactly the deep runner with the ball he used to be at Manchester .

Valkyrja wrote:You realize that, Xabi-Khedira in pivot won a La liga and one Copa ? Modric/Isco which aren't even sure starters, are yet to win anything.

And united won the EPl and reached 2 cl finals with Carrick anderson and Giggs playing cm. What's your point? Mourinho didn't need amazing mf. He needed mf that could shift the ball quickly to the forwards.