Re: Sick of Keita and these lineups

by The Franchise Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:08 am

Seth wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

Mascherano is quick to see this danger and comes out from the back, however Pato is quicker and knocks the ball past him hard. Perhaps, Mascherano intead of diving in should of waited. Possible mistake 2.

Wouldn't Masch risked a red had he dived and caught Pato from behind instead of the ball?? Given that he's slightly behind Pato and with the rate Pato accelerates, I reckon he has a pretty good chance of catching Pato from behind instead the ball.

Yeah, but as Pato turns into space, he runs out to him and leaves Busquets behind.

If you are committed to that challange, you simply have to win it. If not, dont dive in like that and simply back off.

He was too eager to win that ball.

by The Franchise Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:10 am

Luiz and Pique?

I am not 100% sure it works, I get where Alf is coming from.

But its very hard to find Puyol like defenders who have the ability on the ball, all of ones I can think of are terrible to average on the ball.

I tihnk it could of worked because Luiz has no problem being the aggressive centerback who goes out and presses the ball first, while Pique sweeps behind.

Thats the way it worked for Benfica with Luisao as his pair.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:23 am

Perhaps a general lack of good on the ball skills could be made up for in age? Bringing a young player who is still "malleable" would mean that he could still develop that skill.

by messixaviesta Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:19 am

The Franchise wrote:For the love of all that is good, why does Pep have to insist on this.

I hate to say negative things about him after all he has won and all he has done, it makes me feel stupid to even do it.

But this is really incredible. I am starting to think, he is playing Keita simply because he is a nice honest guy who works hard and doesnt complain. Because on a football level him at defensive midfield and Busquets at centerback is the worst thing I have since Chgyriskiy thought he was Koeman reincarnated.

My problem isnt just Keita at DM. I dont think he is horrible despite my comment above. Its the combination of him at defensive midfielder with Busquets at centerback. Its almost funny, its just a bad combonation, it would probably work better if you swapped them over. Thats how bad it is.

Busquets at centerback is all that Free said and more.

I dont even blame him anymore, he dont have those attributes to do it.

I was shaking my head at the line up and while I thought I would miss the entire game today, I got to see about 60 minutes plus highlights. And I saw enough.

I hate to be the "I told you do guy" but I said we should buy a centerback.

This is why, Busquets is many things, but a centerback against elite opponants he is not.

Everyone bought the hype because he put in a few good performances against I think Arsenal in the 2nd leg (?) and/or Madrid (?). I forget now, but he didnt get exposed in one of those games and people thought it was okay. Well neither of those teams attacked in those games he played. Of course he was capable.

I can only shake my head at the result, how we came back only to lose it again and the insistence on Keita and Busquets. Why he couldnt play Adriano, I really dont know.

Not long after it being 2-1, I couldnt see the next 20 minutes. I found out we hadnt scored again to cement it. As I was on the phone finding this out, I said, we are going to let in a last minute goal unless we get a goal pronto.

What happened, Silva scores from a corner in the last minute beating what looked like (can anyone confirm?) Busquets in the air.

Yes what you say is very acceptable. I think Pep has a habit of experimenting in the beginning of every season. Some experiments work and some don't but he probably won't stop it until he is completely sure that it won't work.

by The Franchise Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:20 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Perhaps a general lack of good on the ball skills could be made up for in age? Bringing a young player who is still "malleable" would mean that he could still develop that skill.

Perhaps, but we tried that before.

Pep lost patience in Caceres. Which is exactly the kind of player you named.

by messixaviesta Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:27 am

The Franchise wrote:
Simply put, neither know how to defend in those situations, because both are used to being DM's and whoever turns and runs towars goals, as the nearest man they go to get them. When actually as a centerback your the last line of defence and you cant always do that because nobody is behind you to save your misjudgement if you make one. Sometimes you have to back off, neither know when or how to.

The difference is Mascherano can tackle and is fast so he makes up for it, Busquets isnt and cant.

Spot on explanation. Also excellent post explaining the details about the first goal.

by messixaviesta Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:34 am

The Franchise wrote:I
I notice he subs Vlla before Pedro even in the Pedro is playing worse. But thats because Villa is 30 years old and Pedro is not.

I have been wondering about that but yes that's probably the reason.

by free_cat Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:04 am

This is not about us buying a CB. We don't need it. We could have played this lineup today and it would have surely worked better:

Alves Machete Fontas Abidal
Busquets

Or if you don't trust Fontas enough (I don't see why, because he is doing much better than Busquets at CB), just play Adriano for Abidal and Abidal as CB.

With this lineup we would have won. Easily. The game against la Real too. Period.

by free_cat Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:07 am

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Free_cat how come you never liked keita, is it cause he is generally bad on the ball?

I never disliked Keita when he was a rotation guy. But I'm sick of him being forced in the 1st eleven for some weird reasons. He is not bad on the ball, but he slows our rythm, is prone to lose the ball when pressed and doesn't add much in attack. And he is not suited as DM. He should be 7th choice midfielder.

He is now the player I dislike the most at Barça and I hope we sell him. Although I think he is a very nice person and I wish him the best - outside barça.

by free_cat Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:11 am

Keita, Keita, Keita, Keita. Guardiola is obsessed! (this could be easily merged with my thread)

by messixaviesta Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:20 am

free_cat wrote:
I never disliked Keita when he was a rotation guy. But I'm sick of him being forced in the 1st eleven for some weird reasons. He is not bad on the ball, but he slows our rythm, is prone to lose the ball when pressed and doesn't add much in attack. And he is not suited as DM. He should be 7th choice midfielder.

He is now the player I dislike the most at Barça and I hope we sell him. Although I think he is a very nice person and I wish him the best - outside barça.

Not disagreeing with your comments but just wondering there has to be some reason why Pep is lining out the team like this and it has to be something more than just favoring a player or trying to give adequate minutes to one or more players. He has proved me wrong quite often in the past. e.g. bringing Messi from right to center, replacing Yaya with Busquets, playing Mascherano as CB, etc. Hence I don't want to be that impulsive this time as to say that what Pep is doing is clearly wrong and is bound to fail.

by matpol Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:02 pm

It is really frustrating. Why Pep must play Keita? He's good human, but average player. He is no comfortable at DMF. When he plays as DMF, Busquets play as CB and this is horrible. He plays Keita because of his personality, Pep must stop his man crush on Seydou.

On another note. khaledbarca should start a thread for Barcelona - Osasuna. Last two match thread weren't started by khaled and there were two draws. khaled will bring us luck Very Happy

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:29 pm

The Franchise wrote:Luiz and Pique?

I am not 100% sure it works, I get where Alf is coming from.

But its very hard to find Puyol like defenders who have the ability on the ball, all of ones I can think of are terrible to average on the ball.

I tihnk it could of worked because Luiz has no problem being the aggressive centerback who goes out and presses the ball first, while Pique sweeps behind.

Thats the way it worked for Benfica with Luisao as his pair.

Why i said for a very long term that Puyol's replacement should'nt be a footballing CB because Puyol is'nt.....

Quick, Physical CB is what is required for Puyol's replacement....

by free_cat Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:37 pm

english_jewel wrote:YOU SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT LUIZ

/thread

Luiz runs funny. No thanks.

by BarcaKizz Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:05 pm

The defence was rubbish today... In the first half it was just horrible and I was thinking the same thing. It was only better in the 2nd because they weren't even threatened.

I completely agree with you guys here. I'm really frustrated at Pep. I guess Pep is a patient scientist at his experiments... and tbh he's brought us a long way. After today's game my thoughts were also that Milan had had a lot of luck and this game wasn't life or death so I'm not too concerned. However, I am continually frustrated by his defensive choices.

Adriano has been great since about half a year ago now... Yet he still doesn't play him. Fontas, like Free mentioned, has in my opinion been better than both Busquets and Abidal so far this season at CB... yet he barely gets a chance.

Keita hasn't been as bad as I expected... but the problem is playing so many players out of position. Its OK to do it with one player, but not so many at once, and in such vital positions... all in the same area. The core of our defence today was a bunch of misfits, nothing more, nothing less.

The fact that Puyol came on late added to my frustrations... if he can play 30 minutes, he can play 45, and if he can do that he should start. We needed his leadership at the start, even if he were to be subbed straight at the break, by then we would have settled the game in my opinion.

However, even if he didn't start there were players capable of covering. Considering Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta were all fit... they simply must start in the midfield... this is our 'big game trio' and midfield is where Barca wins games! This leaves a perfectly acceptable group of Alves, Adriano, Maxwell, Abidal, Mascherano and Fontas to choose from for a back 4. I think its just common sense to play Adriano at left back and Abidal at CB.

by BarcaKizz Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:07 pm

Yes, we do need a replacement for Puyol, but I think Pep believed Mascherano can do it... and I'm beginning to have hope that he can. We do need 4 trustworthy CBs though... not players that he'd rather leave on the bench and trust a midfielder or LB there instead. He should either back Fontas, or find someone else.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:15 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:Yes, we do need a replacement for Puyol, but I think Pep believed Mascherano can do it... and I'm beginning to have hope that he can. We do need 4 trustworthy CBs though... not players that he'd rather leave on the bench and trust a midfielder or LB there instead. He should either back Fontas, or find someone else.

Thing is he clearly does'nt, which is why Barca should have bought a ball playing CB who is experienced and proven in thier late 20s etc etc

And then look at Puyol's replacement in the summer whether that means buying someone or promoting someone then whatever.....

by BarcaKizz Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:19 pm

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
BarcaKizz wrote:Yes, we do need a replacement for Puyol, but I think Pep believed Mascherano can do it... and I'm beginning to have hope that he can. We do need 4 trustworthy CBs though... not players that he'd rather leave on the bench and trust a midfielder or LB there instead. He should either back Fontas, or find someone else.

Thing is he clearly does'nt, which is why Barca should have bought a ball playing CB who is experienced and proven in thier late 20s etc etc

And then look at Puyol's replacement in the summer whether that means buying someone or promoting someone then whatever.....

Then he's not doing his job properly. If he didn't want him he shouldn't have promoted him. My hope is he does have faith he just wants to ease him into it... I'm hoping if we were in the same situation come January, he'd play Fontas. Is this optimistic, yes. However, I'll be optimistic thanks :coffee:

by The Franchise Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:37 pm

free_cat wrote:This is not about us buying a CB. We don't need it. We could have played this lineup today and it would have surely worked better:

Alves Machete Fontas Abidal
Busquets

Or if you don't trust Fontas enough (I don't see why, because he is doing much better than Busquets at CB), just play Adriano for Abidal and Abidal as CB.

With this lineup we would have won. Easily. The game against la Real too. Period.

Well yeah, I like the line up with Abidal at centerback and Adriano at leftback.

But in my opinion, I would much prefer Abidal at leftback in big games because of his great defensive ability. in situations like this who would then play centerback?

I just think we have that kind of flexibility and depth in attack and midfield, why not defence too?

by The Franchise Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:43 pm

I agree with Kiz other then about Fontas.

Well its not I disagree, its just Pep doesnt trust him clearly.

Now you are saying he shouldnt of promoted him. Bu I tihnk he had no choice. Fontas is 21/22 and playing in the Segunda. He wasnt going to wait much longer without wanting to leave. I think it forced Pep to promote him simply to buy time.

Mascherano Puyols' replacement...maybe, he has the skillset and even the kind of attitude needed at the spot. Its something which he probably is considering.

I agree most about playing Puyol. I am sorry, if he can play that long then start him and "win" the game first before taking him off. As you said, the team would of found a flow by then and could do without him.

by Khaled Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:57 pm

Actually Kieta is doing fine.. Busquets is better option @ Dm for sure, but Kieta did pretty gd..

The Problem is: Sergio playing as a Center Back.. This should never happen again!!!!

by Khaled Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:31 pm

matpol wrote:It is really frustrating. Why Pep must play Keita? He's good human, but average player. He is no comfortable at DMF. When he plays as DMF, Busquets play as CB and this is horrible. He plays Keita because of his personality, Pep must stop his man crush on Seydou.

On another note. khaledbarca should start a thread for Barcelona - Osasuna. Last two match thread weren't started by khaled and there were two draws. khaled will bring us luck

Done

by billy_gr Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:31 am

If I see Busquets as a CB in one more game I’ll kill myself.
Have Abidal play there ffs.

How I miss Pique…

by messixaviesta Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:40 am

BarcaKizz wrote:Considering Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta were all fit... they simply must start in the midfield... this is our 'big game trio' and midfield is where Barca wins games!

I couldn't agree more.

by messixaviesta Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:43 am

The Franchise wrote:I agree with Kiz other then about Fontas.

Well its not I disagree, its just Pep doesnt trust him clearly.

Now you are saying he shouldnt of promoted him. Bu I tihnk he had no choice. Fontas is 21/22 and playing in the Segunda. He wasnt going to wait much longer without wanting to leave. I think it forced Pep to promote him simply to buy time.

Mascherano Puyols' replacement...maybe, he has the skillset and even the kind of attitude needed at the spot. Its something which he probably is considering.

I agree most about playing Puyol. I am sorry, if he can play that long then start him and "win" the game first before taking him off. As you said, the team would of found a flow by then and could do without him.

Very interesting thoughts. I have largely felt the same way.

by ausbaz Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:06 am

And he played the most games in La Liga out of the whole team last season scratch

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