Phil Ball: Barca plays anti football away

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Phil Ball: Barca plays anti football away - Page 2 Empty Re: Phil Ball: Barca plays anti football away

Post by chinomaster182 Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:20 am

Lord Hispano wrote:Getting tired of this Anti Football poop.

It doesn't exist.

+1

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Post by zizzle Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:43 am

Parking the bus = keeping the ball
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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:45 am

zizzle wrote:Parking the bus = keeping the ball

2 sides of the same coin.

Niether's Anti Footbal, IMO.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:49 am

How is it 2 sides to the same coin?

I will just copy and past what I said earlier.

When teams "park the bus" the other team dont have a say in the matter. They cant force them to not park the bus, its entirely up the team doing it.

Our possesion, other teams have an option. They could come out and press high and not allow us to get out of our half. Like many teams have done before.

Its impossible to stop teams parking the bus, it isnt impossible to stop us keeping possesion.

Not to mention the fact, parking the bus takes little skill because any team in any first division can do it.

Hardly any team can keep possession like we do, in fact, I would say, NO team.

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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:52 am

The Franchise wrote:When teams "park the bus" the other team dont have a say in the matter. They cant force them to not park the bus, its entirely up the team doing it.

Score a goal see what happens.

We all saw it when you did it to Chelsea.



Both strategies are attempts to minmize the opponent.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:01 am

Lord Hispano wrote:
The Franchise wrote:When teams "park the bus" the other team dont have a say in the matter. They cant force them to not park the bus, its entirely up the team doing it.

Score a goal see what happens.

We all saw it when you did it to Chelsea.



Both strategies are attempts to minmize the opponent.

But parking the bus stops the opponant from scoring..what are you talking about?Thats why people call it anti football, because it stops the opponant from playing.

Chelsea? That was a stroke of great fortune..if Iniesta hit that shot 50 times, just that 1 would go in.

How its the same is beyond me totally. As I said, you have no choice about one, while you can do something about the other.
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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:03 am

The Franchise wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
The Franchise wrote:When teams "park the bus" the other team dont have a say in the matter. They cant force them to not park the bus, its entirely up the team doing it.

Score a goal see what happens.

We all saw it when you did it to Chelsea.



Both strategies are attempts to minmize the opponent.

But parking the bus stops the opponant from scoring..what are you talking about?Thats why people call it anti football, because it stops the opponant from playing.

Chelsea? That was a stroke of great fortune..if Iniesta hit that shot 50 times, just that 1 would go in.

How its the same is beyond me totally. As I said, you have no choice about one, while you can do something about the other.

Wel,l the possession game minimizes the opponent's chance to Attack and it takes out the clock as well. I'm not surprised the call it Anti Football as well, even though I don't agree with it.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:06 am

There's a key difference between dominating possession, which is an incredibly hard thing to do which requires a ridiculous amount of technique, and thus why it's very hard to replicate, and putting 9 players in the box. How people do not see or appreciate this difference is beyond me.

Also, the claims that possession football are boring are ridiculous. What team has scored more goals per game than Barca in the last 3 seasons (or 4 including this one) at the champions league? Some possession football can be boring, but possession by itself is not boring. It's what you do with it.
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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:09 am

Well defending isn't child's play either.

Remember when Panthinaikos tried doing it on you guys last season.


No organization of any sort, at all.

To Defend you must have a lot of Mental and actual Defending ability.

Physicallity might work as well, but that exposes your team to suffer Yellow's and Red's.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:10 am

But as I said, you can do something about that. It is within the teams power to change that.

Lets put in teams to make it clear.

When Barcelona are playing their possession games, teams dont want to allow it, so what teams with some heart and ambition do is press up high. Manchester Utd did it, Villarreal have done it, Valencia have done it. There is a way you can combat it and teams have had success doing it.

When Inter parked the bus, or when Chelsea did or when Madrid did, there is literally nothing diferent Barca could of done to combat that. We can pass it quicker, we can put in crosses, we can attack the flanks but in the end they are still parking the bus and there is no route to goal other then fortune and error.

You mentioned the Chelsea game. The goal Iniesta scored came from a Essien error..if they didnt have, we dont score.

As I said, for me, there is a big difference.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:11 am

But anti-football does not refer to good defending, it refers to tactics of putting 9 people in the box and making no attempt to play.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:12 am

Lord Hispano wrote:Well defending isn't child's play either.

Remember when Panthinaikos tried doing it on you guys last season.


No organization of any sort, at all.

To Defend you must have a lot of Mental and actual Defending ability.

Physicallity might work as well, but that exposes your team to suffer Yellow's and Red's.

Defending isnt childs play, but parking the bus is easy compared to possession.

I have seen teams do it with hardly any talent, we struggled to break down many teams who did it. Eventually they folded, which in the end is the problem with parking the bus, but it wasnt anything we did diferent which caused that. We had to sit and hope they would crack.

No other team is capable of playing possession like us, many teams are capable of parking the bus well.
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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:16 am

Lord Hispano wrote:Getting tired of this Anti Football poop.

It doesn't exist.

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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:17 am

Well, for me, there isn't much difference.

I can see where you guys are coming from as I believed it since I was a kid, until I was enlightened. Here's something even the greatest team can never Defend. IMO, it's something you guys you guys lack.

The Longshot.

Also notice how the only teams that can stop the possesion game are teams with similar Technical ability combine with players with outstanding Stamina.

If you don't have those players what are you to do? The only thing most team are able to do. Park the bus.


Last edited by Lord Hispano on Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:19 am

The Franchise wrote:
No other team is capable of playing possession like us, many teams are capable of parking the bus well.

Who exactly? Just Real and Inter. Maybe Chelsea.

Who can keep possesion like you guys? Arsenal, Real, Man U.
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Post by zizzle Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:20 am

some people really underestimate the skill, discpline, grit, and tactical work 'parking the bus' requires.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:22 am

Lord Hispano wrote:Well, for me, there isn't much difference.

I can see where you guys are coming from as I believed it since I was a kid, until I was enlightened. Here's something even the greatest team can never Defend. IMO, it's something you guys you guys lack.

The Longshot.

Also notice how the only teams that can stop the possesion game are teams with similar Technical ability combine with players with outstanding Stamina.

If you don't have those players what are you to do? The only thing most team are able to do. Park the bus.
I'm not arguing that it's not a viable tactic. I'm merely arguing on the definition of anti-football.

I personally find it kind of flattering when a team does it. Can there be a greater display of fear than putting 9 men in the box when you play against them?
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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:22 am

We all have different opinions, Zizzle.

The best we can do is respect the ones we don't agree with.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:22 am

Lord Hispano wrote:Well, for me, there isn't much difference.

I can see where you guys are coming from as I believed it since I was a kid. Here's something even the greatest team can never Defend. IMO, it's something you guys you guys lack.

The Longshot.

Also notice how the only teams that can stop the possesion game are teams with similar Technical ability combine with players with outstanding Stamina.

If you don't have those players what are you to do? The only thing most team are able to do. Park the bus.

Well I said that too, but you might be surprised to learn Barca scored the most goals outside the box in the whole of La Liga last season.

I think though, we limit our shots from distance becase of the possession game. Its a waste attempt when you have the passers we have who believe they can pass their way through.

But again, we scored the most from outside the box so I am not sure its a problem either way.

I agree with your last sentance. Because you cant press for any longer then 30 minutes with dropping off. Also, you need technical players so you can keep the ball and get a rest from all the pressing.

Most small teams dont have this. But I think thats why nobody complains when small teams do it, I at least dont. But when teams who are supposed to have equal or close to equal talent, i think its unneded and quite shameful.
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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:23 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
I personally find it kind of flattering when a team does it. Can there be a greater display of fear than putting 9 men in the box when you play against them?

Or when we see 8 players playing it safe for long periods of the game.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:25 am

zizzle wrote:some people really underestimate the skill, discpline, grit, and tactical work 'parking the bus' requires.

So hard Stoke, Almeria, Betis and al the rest of the fodder at the bottom of the league can do it?

We can all see it takes a certain degree of organisation and discipline and spirit. But lets not pretend its an extraordinary feat only the best of the best can pull off.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:26 am

Lord Hispano wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:I personally find it kind of flattering when a team does it. Can there be a greater display of fear than putting 9 men in the box when you play against them?

Or when we see 8 players playing it safe for long periods of the game.
Guardiola: "Xavi and Iniesta play the best football in the world because they know that a backpass is not a sign of fear but the start of a better play"

In other words, Barca don't "play it safe" (which implies a general lack of courage), they control and seek the perfect opportunity. They're perfectionists.

If you don't understand this concept then you don't understand how Guardiola sees football.


Last edited by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:26 am

Lord Hispano wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
No other team is capable of playing possession like us, many teams are capable of parking the bus well.

Who exactly? Just Real and Inter. Maybe Chelsea.

Who can keep possesion like you guys? Arsenal, Real, Man U.

Yeah, those 3 teams cant keep possession like us. You know that, dont pretend.

Really, just those 3 teams. Lower league teams have never parked the bus well against us? Really?
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Post by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:28 am

We are playing it safe by putting people in triangles and making them run like headless chickens'

Obsurd.

Its not Pique and Puyol with the ball at the back, Its Xavi, Iniesta and Dani Alves passing it in midfield.

How can it be backpasses all the time if those 3 have the most touches of the ball per game and make the most passes per game.

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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:29 am

The Franchise wrote:
Most small teams dont have this. But I think thats why nobody complains when small teams do it, I at least dont. But when teams who are supposed to have equal or close to equal talent, i think its unneded and quite shameful.

It's a football tactic.

Football is a tactical game. Tactics go beyond attack, attack and attack.

And if the team's 'park the bus' tactics work then the only team that should be shamed is the losing team. And if the other team complains of those tactics then they are being sore losers.

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Post by zizzle Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:29 am

The Franchise wrote:
zizzle wrote:some people really underestimate the skill, discpline, grit, and tactical work 'parking the bus' requires.

So hard Stoke, Almeria, Betis and al the rest of the fodder at the bottom of the league can do it?

We can all see it takes a certain degree of organisation and discipline and spirit. But lets not pretend its an extraordinary feat only the best of the best can pull off.


so when was the last time Barca couldnt break the deadlock? :coffee:
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