Carvalho: I quit Portugal because I couldn't stand my team-mate Pepe being picked ahead of me

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Post by Le Samourai Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:08 pm

Lol banning a retired player would be like drowning a dead fish.Pointless.

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Post by Zealous Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:10 pm

Not if he is being banned from club play it isn't.
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Post by Le Samourai Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:24 pm

Zealous wrote:Not if he is being banned from club play it isn't.

Banning him from Real Madrid would be ridiculous.Not to mention it would stir up un-needed tension and conspiracy talk.
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Post by Zealous Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:26 pm

There is talk that he could be banned from Champions League games.

It would be very petty of the FA if they did that.
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Post by Jack Daniels Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:32 pm

ragbirjosh wrote:Lol banning a retired player would be like drowning a dead fish.Pointless.

How in the world do you drown a fish in the first place? albino


Last edited by Jack Daniels on Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:34 pm

For the record, @Franchise, i wanted to be careful about the way i interpret the information we receive, but turns out Carvalho is a serial offender, and it's not the first time.

http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/enfrento-mou-chelsea-suplencia/20110904dasdaiftb_32/Tes

He was simply acting out a diva, in denial he is in the turn of his career...quite sad.
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Post by Zealous Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:42 pm

Well either way what he did was stupid, regardless if he had a reason or not.

As a professional you don't just leave whenever you want.
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Post by The Franchise Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:16 pm

sportsczy wrote:He made a mistake regardless and should be punished... but when a player is 33 and has zero track record of being a trouble maker, you wonder what happened to make him suddenly blow up. There has to be some reason, justified or not. With a player like Balo who's been a punk all his life, you expect him to act like an arse... there's no reason to give Balo the benefit of the doubt.

That's really all this is about: the benefit of the doubt.

Regarding player opinions about coaching... they will and should have one. A lot of the superstars only express their opinions behind closed doors because they know the impact of public criticism. Only in extreme cases do you see them publicly criticize a coach. A prime example is Zidane who roasted Domenech from the get go and publicly. Domenech had no choice but to play him because he was Zidane. It's all a game of power and politics frankly.

But as I said, why is there benefit of the doubt. This is something I dont understand.

Literally everything on this issue is out in the open, or at very least the chance was there for Ricky to defend himself. If there was more, he would or could have said, but he hasnt. So where is the doubt coming from.

As for the coaching, I recognise like Alf has said, my thinking is that of 10 or 20 years ago, but for me, it shouldnt change. Coaches have a hrd enough job already without ego mad players trying to tell them how to do their job.

Even one as bad as Domenech shouldnt have that happen to him, because he is more qualified to make a decision then any player.


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Post by Guest Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:37 pm

The Franchise wrote:
sportsczy wrote:He made a mistake regardless and should be punished... but when a player is 33 and has zero track record of being a trouble maker, you wonder what happened to make him suddenly blow up. There has to be some reason, justified or not. With a player like Balo who's been a punk all his life, you expect him to act like an arse... there's no reason to give Balo the benefit of the doubt.

That's really all this is about: the benefit of the doubt.

Regarding player opinions about coaching... they will and should have one. A lot of the superstars only express their opinions behind closed doors because they know the impact of public criticism. Only in extreme cases do you see them publicly criticize a coach. A prime example is Zidane who roasted Domenech from the get go and publicly. Domenech had no choice but to play him because he was Zidane. It's all a game of power and politics frankly.

But as I said, why is there benefit of the doubt. This is something I dont understand.

Literally everything on this issue is out in the open, or at very least the chance was there for Ricky to defend himself. If there was more, he would or could have said, but he hasnt. So where is the doubt coming from.

As for the coaching, I recognise like Alf has said, my thinking is that of 10 or 20 years ago, but for me, it shouldnt change. Coaches have a hrd enough job already without ego mad players trying to tell them how to do their job.

Even one as bad as Domenech shouldnt have that happen to him, because he is more qualified to make a decision then any player.



Domenech was a complete lunatic and incompetent. Just because someone gets hired or currently has a certain position doesn't make them competent.... actually, incompetence is rampant in the professional world thankfully. Allows for people that are a little less incompetent to get ahead lol.

You can't assume that everything is out in the open. For example, a lot of the issues between Shaq/Kobe/Phil Jackson never became public until years later. It could be one or a combo of 1) Ricky went crazy, 2) there was already tension between Ricky and Bento before the incident and 3) Bento reneged on a promise to Ricky. Giving someone the benefit of the doubt means that you leave the possibility for more facts/circumstances.

Just because a person becomes NT manager, it doesn't make them beyond reproach or challenge both internally and from the outside. You earn the respect of people. You don't get it automatically.

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Post by The Franchise Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:47 pm

sportsczy wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
sportsczy wrote:He made a mistake regardless and should be punished... but when a player is 33 and has zero track record of being a trouble maker, you wonder what happened to make him suddenly blow up. There has to be some reason, justified or not. With a player like Balo who's been a punk all his life, you expect him to act like an arse... there's no reason to give Balo the benefit of the doubt.

That's really all this is about: the benefit of the doubt.

Regarding player opinions about coaching... they will and should have one. A lot of the superstars only express their opinions behind closed doors because they know the impact of public criticism. Only in extreme cases do you see them publicly criticize a coach. A prime example is Zidane who roasted Domenech from the get go and publicly. Domenech had no choice but to play him because he was Zidane. It's all a game of power and politics frankly.

But as I said, why is there benefit of the doubt. This is something I dont understand.

Literally everything on this issue is out in the open, or at very least the chance was there for Ricky to defend himself. If there was more, he would or could have said, but he hasnt. So where is the doubt coming from.

As for the coaching, I recognise like Alf has said, my thinking is that of 10 or 20 years ago, but for me, it shouldnt change. Coaches have a hrd enough job already without ego mad players trying to tell them how to do their job.

Even one as bad as Domenech shouldnt have that happen to him, because he is more qualified to make a decision then any player.



Domenech was a complete lunatic and incompetent. Just because someone gets hired or currently has a certain position doesn't make them competent.... actually, incompetence is rampant in the professional world thankfully. Allows for people that are a little less incompetent to get ahead lol.

You can't assume that everything is out in the open. For example, a lot of the issues between Shaq/Kobe/Phil Jackson never became public until years later. It could be one or a combo of 1) Ricky went crazy, 2) there was already tension between Ricky and Bento before the incident and 3) Bento reneged on a promise to Ricky. Giving someone the benefit of the doubt means that you leave the possibility for more facts/circumstances.

Just because a person becomes NT manager, it doesn't make them beyond reproach or challenge both internally and from the outside. You earn the respect of people. You don't get it automatically.

No need to tell me about Domenech, trust me. Anyone who uses tarot cards and star signs in choosing players I seriously have to laugh at. But at the end of the day, he is in charge and as a player, you opening challanging him and telling him what to do, wont get you anywhere in the long term.

Of course being a NT manager doesnt make you imortal, but players are not the ones who should do it, never. For things to work, everyone has to do their job and their role. Players running at the mouth to coaches isnt knowing their role.

Coaches do and should earn a measure of respect, that measure being mere players not telling him who should play.

Sure number 2 and number 3 could of happened, but the fact Ricky hasnt said it, or even hinted at it tells a story.

What has Ricky got to lose by defending himself? Nothing.

People are calling him all sorts of names, if there is anything else to say which will change peoples view, he would say it.

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Post by Guest Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:54 pm

We'll see if UEFA sanctions him and it costs him games with Madrid... then he may really speak up.

But for now, he may have decided to let things go instead of continuing to sensationalize it. No point in jabbing with Bento if the punishment is nothing more than NT related... which he retired from anyhow.

No defending him btw. Regardless of whether he had reason to or not, you don't just walk off the training ground. There were a million better ways for him to handle this. Very unprofessional.

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Post by The Franchise Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:57 pm

Well he has come out with a second statement caling Bento a mercenary, so you will have to excuse me if I doubt his restraint.

On the subject, I think banning him for Madrid would be outragous. Shocked thats a possibility.



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Post by buddytaller Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:47 pm

I don't subscribe to calling up senior players for the NT if you're not going to play them, it will be sad for example to see Ronaldinho play only 10 minutes tomorrow, with that said, I think Carvalho overreacted and could've handled the situation better.

The Portuguese coach has decided not to pursue the case further, so there would be no club or NT ban, but he has vowed never to recall Carvalho into the NT.
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Post by Ganso Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:49 pm

immature a-hole.If at least he was a legitimately awesome CB,but he sucks,Carvalho should just stop crying
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Post by EarlyPrototype Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:57 pm

What Carvalho did was wrong, but the coach is also an a hole for choosing a defender that did not train. Nothing against Pepe he is better than Carvalho, but I know that Mou will not pick a player if they had not trained with the squad.


Last edited by EarlyPrototype on Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:00 pm

here is the precedent i was after

Many were surprised by the terrified de Carvalho concentration to learn that Portugal would not be a starter in the game against Cyprus. "Never before have I felt so neglected and hurt in my dignity. If you make me feel leftover and I did not say, the only option is to leave," said the Real Madrid player. However, it is not the first time that Carvalho has a bad reaction to be shifted from ownership.

Occurred in August 2005, at Chelsea, with Mourinho as coach. The central white now, a regular starter with the blues at the time, saw the coach began to bet on Gallas and expressed his displeasure in the British press to be the third option: "I do not know why I'm an alternate. He told me so (Mourinho), but I do not understand why. It's totally incomprehensible. " Mourinho, no friend to receive messages through the newspapers, he replied sharply: "Carvalho seems to have trouble understanding what is said, so the same should undergo an IQ test. I worked with him for the last four years and not understand what are now his words. You probably need to see a doctor. This summer I said that we have an extraordinary staff and it was his turn to be patient, everyone would have their chance. What has been said that it is difficult to understand? I hope it's quiet because I will not tolerate this kind of thing. "

Carvalho's remarks also liked the Chelsea chief executive Peter Kenyon and his companions. Terry said: "You can think you're sick of the trainer for a day you do not feel involved." Despite this defense of his coach, Terry tried to remove the club Carvalho imposed the fine, 97,000 Euros, which was not possible.

http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/enfrento-mou-chelsea-suplencia/20110904dasdaiftb_32/Tes
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Post by EarlyPrototype Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:03 pm

I didn't fully understand that google translate is poor.
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Post by the xcx Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:06 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:here is the precedent i was after

Many were surprised by the terrified de Carvalho concentration to learn that Portugal would not be a starter in the game against Cyprus. "Never before have I felt so neglected and hurt in my dignity. If you make me feel leftover and I did not say, the only option is to leave," said the Real Madrid player. However, it is not the first time that Carvalho has a bad reaction to be shifted from ownership.

Occurred in August 2005, at Chelsea, with Mourinho as coach. The central white now, a regular starter with the blues at the time, saw the coach began to bet on Gallas and expressed his displeasure in the British press to be the third option: "I do not know why I'm an alternate. He told me so (Mourinho), but I do not understand why. It's totally incomprehensible. " Mourinho, no friend to receive messages through the newspapers, he replied sharply: "Carvalho seems to have trouble understanding what is said, so the same should undergo an IQ test. I worked with him for the last four years and not understand what are now his words. You probably need to see a doctor. This summer I said that we have an extraordinary staff and it was his turn to be patient, everyone would have their chance. What has been said that it is difficult to understand? I hope it's quiet because I will not tolerate this kind of thing. "

Carvalho's remarks also liked the Chelsea chief executive Peter Kenyon and his companions. Terry said: "You can think you're sick of the trainer for a day you do not feel involved." Despite this defense of his coach, Terry tried to remove the club Carvalho imposed the fine, 97,000 Euros, which was not possible.

http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/enfrento-mou-chelsea-suplencia/20110904dasdaiftb_32/Tes
Its a gibberish tho, any spanish-english translators? Very Happy
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Post by Jeps33178 Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:06 pm

This is obviously not true, you think carvalho, a real proffesional would say some dumb shat like that lol?

You think hes gonna go ahead and say private club matters such as "ill always be #1 for Madrid" or you think hes gonna screw over Pepe like that?
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:06 pm

basically, carvalho was also whining in 2005 when mourinho put him under rotation, he made a public big deal out of it.

there is a source link in spanish

edit: read the damn thing in spanish if you cant get the google translation
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Post by EarlyPrototype Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:08 pm

We don't need that kind of attitude in our club, he is not that special anyway.
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Post by Lord Spencer Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:19 pm

While it is true that Ricky has the right to retire whenever he wants. There is an ethical conduct which players must follow. Ricky did not follow that conduct, and he acted like an ass over it.

You really can't say it is perfectly acceptable to make an ass of yourself.
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Post by Guest Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:19 pm

Mou's response to Carvalho in 2005 is epic lol.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:24 pm

Well, he is in his last season with us, there wont be any incentives to keep him further than that.
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Post by Arquitecto Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:31 pm

I'm not going to be said whats been recycled and said in this thread already.

From a psychological point of view, I simply feel that RC is finding it difficult to come to terms with his waning physical condition to defend amongst the football elite.

You have to understand, RC has been used to being a world class defender and starting among the elite competitions in the world, yet inevitably the day has approached where he cannot keep up with the increase of age and sinews within his body that hinder him from competing in the fast and physical modern game while decades ago he would have been able to, due to the fact that the game back then was focused more on guile and technicality then the physical aspect.

Emotions have obviously gotten the better of him as 33 is old in football but is relatively young when compared to facing life itself as I can't help but feel RC is only reflecting on the times in his career when his place in the squad was unquestionable.

Difference is, he didn't display his emotion in the most mature way but its forgivable as the circumstances must be considered.

I'm sure with a clear and relaxed mind after a few days to think he will be more tranquil and continue to defy his age with RM.
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Post by S32TABLANCA Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:44 pm

He better get used to it, I hope he is just a backup this year. He should retire next year, his decline is evident.
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