Did Zidane Flop?

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Did Zidane Flop? Empty Did Zidane Flop?

Post by justdoit_ Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:09

My friend and I were having the usual dialogue about Messi's place in history (this thread isn't about it, please don't mention him) when he claimed that time has glossed over the faults of past greats and that "he'd rather come up empty in a Copa America than two straight Champions League Finals." I watched the '97 and '98 CL Finals a lifetime ago, and don't remember a thing from either either than the fact that Juventus were playing in both and that BVB and Real Madrid came away with the silverware

So, for anyone that remembers that far back, or has ever watched a replay, was Zidane up to his usual tricks those days or did his game suffer under the pressure? Thanks for the replies.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:14

Yes and Zidane had a history of such, but his wonderful goal in CL final and his brace in the WC final made everyone forget the fact he was a fantastic player but very inconsistent....

As been said before Zidane's career was basically a massive highlight reel he was'nt consistently great but when he did something you remembered it kind of like Ronaldinho tbh.
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Post by Lord Awesome Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:18

I think that goes for any player. Even the past legends.

We always hear about Pele and Maradona's WC's and whatnot, but you never get to hear about their failiures since most people who talk about tham here have never actually seen either.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:22

Lord Hispano wrote:I think that goes for any player. Even the past legends.

We always hear about Pele and Maradona's WC's and whatnot, but you never get to hear about their failiures since most people who talk about tham here have never actually seen either.

Yh that's true it just shows they are human lol as being consistently great like that is impossible and usually the WC successes are overblown because they are viewed by billions of people so people remember it and usually overshadow club failures.....

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Post by Lord Awesome Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:29

Exactly.

If we saw the past legends today, we'd probably say the same things we say about our current generation of players.

Player A is a flop
Player B didn't score against blah
Player C only scores tap-ins
Player D is better than player X because he play for Team A

So on and so forth.

Nothing escapes the wrath of trolls.
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Post by :{Mr.Mustachio! Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:35

I wouldn't say he flopped as such, Juventus as a collective did. When it comes to the CL we peak to early.

He was great in both of those CL's, ADP likewise, But neither were great in the finals.

We were the best team throughout the entire tournament both times, but it all comes down to that one game at the end of the day.
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Post by Guest Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:49

I saw Maradona, Platini, Zico, Zidane, Batigol, etc... i'm older than most here.

Here's the thing with the truly greats. Did they have lesser performances here and there? Sure. But they were truly rare occasions and it was only compared to the massive standards they set for themselves. There's never a loss that i could truly blame on any of these players. It was just football and you lose some.

What made them great was that they won at every club and NT level they participated in. Their teams were always among the best and, when they were sold or retired, it was a loss that the teams couldn't recover from for a bit (some for a very long time).

Zidane didn't flop in '97 finals. Paul Lambert was assigned to follow him all over the field and he would get double-teamed if he ever received the ball. Di Livio and Deschamps weren't able to pick up the slack to make the opponent pay. Dortmund scored 2 goals in 5 mins in the first half and then played very defensive obviously. In the end, it was a team flop and great tactics + efficiency from Dortmund (Riedl was great). It was Zidane's first year at Juve.

In 1998, it was a very good CL final. In fact the goal was offsides... but that's another story. Both sides were wasteful and it could have gone either way. Plenty of offense.

And of course, France won the 1998 world cup.


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Post by Doc Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:52

I actually remember 97 final strangely enough and Juventus as whole underestimated Dortmund. So yeah, Zidane wasn't influential much at all. Can't really remember 98 though except for Pessotto ducking from Mijatovic shot (or so it looked from my PoV).
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Post by LeSwagg James Thu 25 Aug 2011, 16:58

sportsczy wrote:I saw Maradona, Platini, Zico, Zidane, Batigol, etc... i'm older than most here.


Who was better out of Platini, Zico or Zidane in your opinion?

Batigol was a striker, and I'm assuming Maradona was better than all of them..
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Post by The Madrid One Thu 25 Aug 2011, 17:33

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:I think that goes for any player. Even the past legends.

We always hear about Pele and Maradona's WC's and whatnot, but you never get to hear about their failiures since most people who talk about tham here have never actually seen either.

Yh that's true it just shows they are human lol as being consistently great like that is impossible and usually the WC successes are overblown because they are viewed by billions of people so people remember it and usually overshadow club failures.....

Did Zidane Flop? GTFO~1
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Post by Magricos Thu 25 Aug 2011, 17:48

How do people define Zizou as inconsistent and he performed well in most of his matches.

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Post by free_cat Thu 25 Aug 2011, 17:49

Zidane, the most overated player ever. Yes, he flopped. But people prefer not to remember that and only remember the latter part part of his career were he was lucky to score some of his very few goals in finals.
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Post by Magricos Thu 25 Aug 2011, 17:51

free_cat wrote:Zidane, the most overated player ever. Yes, he flopped. But people prefer not to remember that and only remember the latter part part of his career were he was lucky to score some of his very few goals in finals.

Did you see the 98 CL final ? :lol!:

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Post by Doc Thu 25 Aug 2011, 17:59

Magricos wrote:
free_cat wrote:Zidane, the most overated player ever. Yes, he flopped. But people prefer not to remember that and only remember the latter part part of his career were he was lucky to score some of his very few goals in finals.

Did you see the 98 CL final ? :lol!:

You could have asked if he seen Zidane as well. From his post, it would see he hasn't...
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Post by Ali Thu 25 Aug 2011, 18:09

free_cats mad that Messi isn't better then Zidane smh lol
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Post by Guest Thu 25 Aug 2011, 19:22

Swagg_Johnson wrote:
sportsczy wrote:I saw Maradona, Platini, Zico, Zidane, Batigol, etc... i'm older than most here.


Who was better out of Platini, Zico or Zidane in your opinion?

Batigol was a striker, and I'm assuming Maradona was better than all of them..

From 1976-1982, Zico was the best there was in the world. From 1982-1986 Platini dominated and completely outclassed Maradona. When Argentina won the WC in 1986 and Platini basically fell apart physically (retired in 1987), Maradona took over.

Zidane dominated longer than all of them as he was a mover and shaker in elite football from 1997-2006. The other guys had 4-5 year runs basically... although i'll caveat this that Zico was mostly in the Brazil league which was the best in the world in the 70s. So maybe it's just ignorance on my part here.

Technically, Zico was the best actually imo... but he didn't have a lot of success on the world stage because Brazil underachieved. Maradona was right behind him technically. Best field general was Platini without a question. Zidane was a combo field general and technical genius. I think the impact on his team combined with his individual genius made him the best footballer out of all of them.

Don't underrate Zico though. He was insane. I put him right there with Pele and Garrincha in terms of ability. He was better than R9, Romario and Rivelino.


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Post by harhar11 Thu 25 Aug 2011, 21:17

sportsczy wrote:I saw Maradona, Platini, Zico, Zidane, Batigol, etc... i'm older than most here.

Here's the thing with the truly greats. Did they have lesser performances here and there? Sure. But they were truly rare occasions and it was only compared to the massive standards they set for themselves. There's never a loss that i could truly blame on any of these players. It was just football and you lose some.

What made them great was that they won at every club and NT level they participated in. Their teams were always among the best and, when they were sold or retired, it was a loss that the teams couldn't recover from for a bit (some for a very long time).

Zidane didn't flop in '97 finals. Paul Lambert was assigned to follow him all over the field and he would get double-teamed if he ever received the ball. Di Livio and Deschamps weren't able to pick up the slack to make the opponent pay. Dortmund scored 2 goals in 5 mins in the first half and then played very defensive obviously. In the end, it was a team flop and great tactics + efficiency from Dortmund (Riedl was great). It was Zidane's first year at Juve.


In 1998, it was a very good CL final. In fact the goal was offsides... but that's another story. Both sides were wasteful and it could have gone either way. Plenty of offense.

And of course, France won the 1998 world cup.


So exactly the same as when messi plays bad for arg and yet people say that messi is a flop while you are saying that zidane didn't in that game..

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Post by Magricos Thu 25 Aug 2011, 21:20

What does this thread have to do with Messi ?

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Post by the xcx Thu 25 Aug 2011, 21:20

harhar11 wrote:
sportsczy wrote:I saw Maradona, Platini, Zico, Zidane, Batigol, etc... i'm older than most here.

Here's the thing with the truly greats. Did they have lesser performances here and there? Sure. But they were truly rare occasions and it was only compared to the massive standards they set for themselves. There's never a loss that i could truly blame on any of these players. It was just football and you lose some.

What made them great was that they won at every club and NT level they participated in. Their teams were always among the best and, when they were sold or retired, it was a loss that the teams couldn't recover from for a bit (some for a very long time).

Zidane didn't flop in '97 finals. Paul Lambert was assigned to follow him all over the field and he would get double-teamed if he ever received the ball. Di Livio and Deschamps weren't able to pick up the slack to make the opponent pay. Dortmund scored 2 goals in 5 mins in the first half and then played very defensive obviously. In the end, it was a team flop and great tactics + efficiency from Dortmund (Riedl was great). It was Zidane's first year at Juve.


In 1998, it was a very good CL final. In fact the goal was offsides... but that's another story. Both sides were wasteful and it could have gone either way. Plenty of offense.

And of course, France won the 1998 world cup.


So exactly the same as when messi plays bad for arg and yet people say that messi is a flop while you are saying that zidane didn't in that game..
Difference is that Messi has flopped in NT for years.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu 25 Aug 2011, 21:22

The xcx wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
sportsczy wrote:I saw Maradona, Platini, Zico, Zidane, Batigol, etc... i'm older than most here.

Here's the thing with the truly greats. Did they have lesser performances here and there? Sure. But they were truly rare occasions and it was only compared to the massive standards they set for themselves. There's never a loss that i could truly blame on any of these players. It was just football and you lose some.

What made them great was that they won at every club and NT level they participated in. Their teams were always among the best and, when they were sold or retired, it was a loss that the teams couldn't recover from for a bit (some for a very long time).

Zidane didn't flop in '97 finals. Paul Lambert was assigned to follow him all over the field and he would get double-teamed if he ever received the ball. Di Livio and Deschamps weren't able to pick up the slack to make the opponent pay. Dortmund scored 2 goals in 5 mins in the first half and then played very defensive obviously. In the end, it was a team flop and great tactics + efficiency from Dortmund (Riedl was great). It was Zidane's first year at Juve.


In 1998, it was a very good CL final. In fact the goal was offsides... but that's another story. Both sides were wasteful and it could have gone either way. Plenty of offense.

And of course, France won the 1998 world cup.


So exactly the same as when messi plays bad for arg and yet people say that messi is a flop while you are saying that zidane didn't in that game..
Difference is that Messi has flopped in NT for years.

Not quite true, Messi was great for Argentina until Riquelme was shipped out and since then Argentina have had idiotic managers that first pratically played Messi as a CM and then tried him as a fake 9 with 3 dm's behind him.....

Anyway this is'nt about Messi.
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Post by ChollaVille Thu 25 Aug 2011, 22:35

Zidane was not even the best Juve player in 97 and 98.
His first "five star" game was 98. WC final. He was very good before that, but not great.

Later he started to do magic, but 1 Balon d'Ors and 2 FIFA awards he won becouse of tropheys.
In 98. Ronaldo was better, in 2000. Figo was better and won Balon d'Or, in 2003 Henry adn Nedved were better, he won FIFA award but not Balon d'Or.

Zidane was great player, but not so much great. He is not even in top 10 in history, and some people here are sayng that he is the best in history LOL.


Last edited by ChollaVille on Fri 26 Aug 2011, 04:35; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Lord Spencer Thu 25 Aug 2011, 23:12

@ChollaVille;

Did you actually watch Zidane play?


I am sure that we would not be able to accurately sum Zidane up until the sentimentality associated with him is gone. Both negative and positive sentimentality mind you.
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Post by LeSwagg James Fri 26 Aug 2011, 03:00

sportsczy wrote:
Swagg_Johnson wrote:
sportsczy wrote:I saw Maradona, Platini, Zico, Zidane, Batigol, etc... i'm older than most here.


Who was better out of Platini, Zico or Zidane in your opinion?

Batigol was a striker, and I'm assuming Maradona was better than all of them..

From 1976-1982, Zico was the best there was in the world. From 1982-1986 Platini dominated and completely outclassed Maradona. When Argentina won the WC in 1986 and Platini basically fell apart physically (retired in 1987), Maradona took over.

Zidane dominated longer than all of them as he was a mover and shaker in elite football from 1997-2006. The other guys had 4-5 year runs basically... although i'll caveat this that Zico was mostly in the Brazil league which was the best in the world in the 70s. So maybe it's just ignorance on my part here.

Technically, Zico was the best actually imo... but he didn't have a lot of success on the world stage because Brazil underachieved. Maradona was right behind him technically. Best field general was Platini without a question. Zidane was a combo field general and technical genius. I think the impact on his team combined with his individual genius made him the best footballer out of all of them.

Don't underrate Zico though. He was insane. I put him right there with Pele and Garrincha in terms of ability. He was better than R9, Romario and Rivelino.


Oh I see, I wish I could have seen those 3 players play... Only saw Zidane

But nobody is better than R9!! Laughing
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Post by ChollaVille Fri 26 Aug 2011, 04:33

Lord Spencer wrote:@ChollaVille;

Did you actually watch Zidane play?


I am sure that we would not be able to accurately sum Zidane up until the sentimentality associated with him is gone. Both negative and positive sentimentality mind you.

I did, as I said he is great player. But he won player of the year and balon d'or 98. and player of the year 2000. award beacouse of tropheys. I know that only few players did not won award becouse of some trophey (Ronaldo 96, Ronaldo 97, Rivaldo 99, Figo 01, Ronaldinho 2004, Ronalidinho 2005, Messi 2010.)

He won that 2003. FIFA player of the year, but he was not even in top 3 for Balon d'Or.
For me Henry was better, for some people it was Schechenko, for others it was Nedved who won Baon d'Or.

In 1998. it would be Ronaldo if Brazil won it, 2000. it would be Figo who won Balon d'Or (my choice to) or Rivaldo or someone from Holland or Italy (if they won Euro Cup).

And Im very happy that Dortmund won that 1997. CL. In 1998 final Juve was my favourite (well on other side was Madrid).
Again great player, but not so great. Ronaldo and Ronaldinho (despite short career) are greater player than he is.


1998. FIFA award Zidane, Balon d'Or Zidane
2000. FIFA award Zidane, Balon d'Or Figo
2003. FIFA award Zidane, Balon d'Or Nedved.
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Post by RealGunner Fri 26 Aug 2011, 04:39

please dont talk about Zidane like u have seen him play. U cleary havn't

No surprise to see u consider dinho a greater player. Don't know whats with Barcelona fan's ( franchise aside) hate towards Zidane.
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