Gaddafi's Regime is Collapsing!

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Post by 7amood11 Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:57 am

Nobody WANTED a civil war. On February 17th and on the days that followed, protests broke out. Nobody had a knife, nobody had a gun, they were UNARMED protests. You know what happened to them? They were shot at, and tens of them were killed. I can even remember one night in early March when over 200 people were killed in a single night.

You say that you're against all forms of aggression, but then you condone this crap. Shows how much of a hypocrite you are.

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Post by buddytaller Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:07 am

I saw the videos and read the initial reports on Libya, protests broke out in Benghazi, it turned violent and police stations were attacked and security officials were killed, they looted the arms and started the chaos. Search for the video I earlier posted.

I don't believe any government that comes to power through bloodshed, would last. It's a sad day for Libya, they will sadly be turned into a hub of terrorist and Islamist radicals, the promises of elections and democracy would soon turn into a distant dream.

The terrorist would cause terror to the same governments and countries that supported them, pretty much like the story of Osama Bin Laden the US and his Al Qaeda network. The US created Osama to fight the USSR in Afghanistan, the rest is history.
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Post by 7amood11 Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:32 am

buddytaller wrote:I saw the videos and read the initial reports on Libya, protests broke out in Benghazi, it turned violent and police stations were attacked and security officials were killed, they looted the arms and started the chaos. Search for the video I earlier posted.

:facepalm: You're not twisting facts, you're posting the exact opposite of them.

UNARMED protests broke out in Benghazi. 15 people were killed on the first day. Same thing happened in the next few days, with the number of murders increasing. After they realized that they were going to be massacred, they started breaking into arms warehouses and fighting back, and they had every damn right to do so.


buddytaller wrote:I don't believe any government that comes to power through bloodshed, would last. It's a sad day for Libya, they will sadly be turned into a hub of terrorist and Islamist radicals, the promises of elections and democracy would soon turn into a distant dream.

Absolutely right. Which is why Gaddafi's reign has come to a humiliating end. :coffee:

You can only make idiotic predictions buddytaller. During these 8 months there hasn't been a flicker of Islamist activity, but you still insist on it. Looks like this accusation you made is false.



Last edited by 7amood11 on Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:33 am

buddy_taller I understand your sentiments, I too think the protesting might a little percentage of it be instigated by Western Powers however you give accounts of migrants that were in Libya especially of the Ghanaian ones, but I believe I will take the account of 7amood as he lived there and might have account from family and friends.

This is the example, am not in Ghana anymore, don't u think it will be stupid on my part if I argued with you about what I read on say myjoyonline about something that happens in the city you are in?

I might be using facts written by someone but you have first hand knowledge, likewise I'd be pissed off if a problem arose in my county here in Pennsylvania and someone in another country tried to claim otherwise......
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Post by MJ Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:39 am

A constitution is set to be written up in 2012 with elections to be pushed back till at least 2013 with the current provisional government overseeing affairs until then.
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Post by Jonathan28 Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:14 am

What I worry about is that the western powers didn't intervene because they cared about the Libyan people, quite the opposite really. They interveneved only because of the oil and the potential business they had there. What I hate is the way we are trying to force democracy on to other nations, how is that any different to what past dictators did to their own people. Seriously, Syria is lucky that theres no oil there.

EDIT: I was listening to 5 live last night and I heard this-http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b01607q8

Listen to it from 2:57:00

Then I read this-http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/21/british-firms-libya-business

My reaction: :facepalm:
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Post by 7amood11 Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:43 am

Ordinho10 wrote:What I worry about is that the western powers didn't intervene because they cared about the Libyan people, quite the opposite really. They interveneved only because of the oil and the potential business they had there. What I hate is the way we are trying to force democracy on to other nations, how is that any different to what past dictators did to their own people. Seriously, Syria is lucky that theres no oil there.

Of course the West has its own interests, and they overlapped with our aspirations for freedom. Why is Syria lucky? They need help to get rid of Assad.
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Post by Jonathan28 Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:49 am

7amood11 wrote:
Ordinho10 wrote:What I worry about is that the western powers didn't intervene because they cared about the Libyan people, quite the opposite really. They interveneved only because of the oil and the potential business they had there. What I hate is the way we are trying to force democracy on to other nations, how is that any different to what past dictators did to their own people. Seriously, Syria is lucky that theres no oil there.

Of course the West has its own interests, and they overlapped with our aspirations for freedom. Why is Syria lucky? They need help to get rid of Assad.

The thing is they never will, theres nothing to gain from NATO bombing Syria. Iran is more likely to be next on the list I fear
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Post by MJ Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:50 am

It's mainly because of the oil and other interests. Iraq ring a bell? and why wouldn't they intervene in countries that arguably needed Western interference more? Like Sudan, Somalia, maybe Darfur? Or for God's sake don't get me started on Palestine.
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Post by MJ Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:53 am

NATO bombing Syria would be a huge mistake. If any action is to be taken, it should be the economic sanctions suggested by the UK and U.S.
It's not as if the majority of Syrians are protesting and it's not as if there havent been violent protests either. Granted, IMO Bashar-Al Assad has handled the situation poorly.
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Post by 7amood11 Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:56 am

MJGunner wrote:NATO bombing Syria would be a huge mistake. If any action is to be taken, it should be the economic sanctions suggested by the UK and U.S.
It's not as if the majority of Syrians are protesting and it's not as if there havent been violent protests either. Granted, IMO Bashar-Al Assad has handled the situation poorly.

Assad didn't handle it poorly, he freaking massacred his own people. 3000-4000 dead, and more atrocities coming up every day. Economic sanctions should be brought in immediately IMO.
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Post by MJ Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:06 am

I don't know all the details, I get extremely pro Assad news here, and then I get extremely pro Western news if I look elsewhere. From the little research I've done, he's been terrible but I'd need more of an informed opinion to carry on this discussion. What I DO know is that military intervention is the worst thing that could be done right now.
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Post by Lord Spencer Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:08 am

buddytaller wrote:I don't think too much, I've learnt to read between the lies the US and the mass media tells in order to achieve their own selfish interests, America hasn't shed her Cold War mentality, and aims to rid the world of every form of socialist governance, America and her proxies waged senseless ideological wars in Vietnam and Cuba, just because they chose to be different.

And that is just what happened to brother leader, a victim of circumstances, he chose a path of African Unity and social development for his country after he took over the reigns of Libya in a bloodless coup from a monarchy, which was still in bed with Italy, helping her to impoverish Libya.

So many lies have been told about him without a shred of evidence. He chose to sell his nations oil to China instead of the United States and her allies, guess you don't mess with Big Brother, America has dictated to the rest of the world for ages and yet they hypocritically accuse others of same. They maintain the right of Veto in the UN security council and yet call for democracy in other nations, they have killed and maimed so many innocent civilians in Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, yet accuses other governments of same. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds, I didn't buy their lies about Iraq (which is worse off than it was in Saddam's time), I didn't buy it in Libya either.

I am against all forms of aggression, and believe the best way to achieve world peace is through diplomacy not lies and bombs. What has happened in Libya is nothing but shameful, it's despicable for anyone to be happy at the sight of a fellow human being being tortured to death, but sadly enough the mass media has turned a lot of people into blood thirsty psychopaths, who take great pleasure in seeing a fellow human being, being treated such an inhumane fashion.

Saudi Arabia sell most of its oil to China and Japan, I don't see the U.S. getting angry about it.

Did you visit Iraq, did you talk to Iraqi people, do you anything about Saddam, or are you talking out of your ass as usual. I am from Iraq, and getting rid of Saddam is worth all the suffering we had to go through because we went through worse at the hands of Saddam.

Your ignorance is staggering, you choose to believe one source over another without good reason. You ignore the voice of the Libyan people and instead resort to what your Ghanaian pals have t say.

You are the exact type of people responsible for bloody dictators staying in power, you are the ignorant masses supporting the likes of Hitler and Mussolini. For every good deed the criminal did, he did three bad deeds to overshadow it.

But what is the use of talking to you, you are too busy blaming the west and their "cronies" to ever step back and blame yourself. Continue outsourcing your problems to others, and see if you ever become the cause of change. No insult is larger than your insult to all of our intelligence and your insult to the Libyan people by supporting a bloody dictator.

Jog it on son.
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Post by Senor Penguin Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:57 am

buddytaller wrote:I don't think too much, I've learnt to read between the lies the US and the mass media tells in order to achieve their own selfish interests, America hasn't shed her Cold War mentality, and aims to rid the world of every form of socialist governance, America and her proxies waged senseless ideological wars in Vietnam and Cuba, just because they chose to be different.
There are many European countries with socialist ideologies reflecting in the system. I don't see America doing anything about that.

Besides, I don't know why you even mention socialism when it has zilch to do with Libya, Gaddafi and the region.

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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:36 pm

There is nothing we would like more than taking down baashar, hes been the second bloodiest after ghaddafi in this whole struggle. However, bashar has alot of leverage against us and has a wide reaching global network of influence and terror (ghaddafi was isolated).

If we try to protect the syrian people directly there is no doubt in my mind that he would release his goons in lebanon, palestine, iraq, turkey and the gulf against our interests and those of our allies. We are trying to help as much as possible by using our influence on the europeans to stop trade and oil imports.
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Post by MJ Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:00 am

Yuri Yukuv wrote:There is nothing we would like more than taking down baashar, hes been the second bloodiest after ghaddafi in this whole struggle. However, bashar has alot of leverage against us and has a wide reaching global network of influence and terror (ghaddafi was isolated).

If we try to protect the syrian people directly there is no doubt in my mind that he would release his goons in lebanon, palestine, iraq, turkey and the gulf against our interests and those of our allies. We are trying to help as much as possible by using our influence on the europeans to stop trade and oil imports.

You're a freaking super hero bro.


BTW, I never heard anywhere that it was the majority of Syrians protesting, I've actually heard and seen the opposite from tv and Syrians I know.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:33 pm

When is talking about your country using we and us considered thinking that you are a superhero?

Anyways we dont know if the dissidents are a majority or a minority mainly because there is so much violence used against them by militias, security forces and tanks. If they are not a threat then bashar should let them protest and express themselves, he is going through extraordinary bloody lengths to make sure they dont.

Anyways, the tube doesnt really count as a reliable source of information.


Last edited by Yuri Yukuv on Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:35 pm

Congrats for the Islamic Republic of Libya, The NTC just decided that there will be no conventional banking or civil law in personal matters (only islamic sharia).

Good thing they went through a referendum to make such big decisions for their people, oh wait...
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Post by 7amood11 Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:40 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Congrats for the Islamic Republic of Libya, The NTC just decided that there will be no conventional banking or civil law in personal matters (only islamic sharia).

Good thing they went through a referendum to make such big decisions for their people, oh wait...

It looks like you've completely misunderstood AbdulJalil's speech. By "Islamic law", he didn't mean that radical Islamic law such as Iran/Saudi Arabia, he meant a moderate Islamic law, along the lines of UAE, Qatar, etc. We're a Muslim country, of course we will abide by Islamic law (not extreme).
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:45 pm

I dont really care if you use islamic law or not, I would like the state to be small and reflective of libya's people (who are muslim)

Not using a referendum, dictating private property and disabling religious minorities from using the courts for their personal matters is what bothers me. If the country decides to behead people through a referendum I would be completely fine with it for example.

Yes, you will tell me everyone is muslim and thats why they will use shariah for civil cases, however if someone decides to change religion or is secular they would still have to go through the same process.
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Post by MJ Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:51 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:When is talking about your country using we and us considered thinking that you are a superhero?

Anyways we dont know if the dissidents are a majority or a minority mainly because there is so much violence used against them by militias, security forces and tanks. If they are not a threat then bashar should let them protest and express themselves, he is going through extraordinary bloody lengths to make sure they dont.

Anyways, the tube doesnt really count as a reliable source of information.

I just really look up to you is all.

I agree with some of what you're saying. I think it could benefit Al-Assad to allow the people to express themselves and make some real reforms but I'm 100% sure that the protests haven't entirely been peaceful. I've read and seen some protesters rioting and ransacking police stations among other things. Which isn't to justify Al-Assad's treatment of the situation
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:57 pm

Well the protests havent been centralized mainly because Assad has threatened to use brute force to quash any protests, so we cant say that they are all the same but they are uniformly treated by the assad regime.

I really dont believe the regime in syria can really grant any reforms, its a security regime that uses totalitarianism as its main pillar. If you take it away then the regime is left with nothing, the protesters and the regime alike know this.

Its like asking a threatening midget to get rid of his gun before you can negotiate.
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Post by JAY-Z Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:41 pm

Yuri, you live in Syria?
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Post by Soul Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:27 am

Guys I've come across some stuff a guy posted in FB, so can anyone validate these points for me?

--


Libya & QADDAFI ...FACTS THAT CANT BE DENIED
1. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free
for all its citizens.

2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are
state-owned and loans given
to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.

3. Home considered a human right in Libya –
Gaddafi vowed that his parents
would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a
home. Gaddafi’s father has
died while him, his wife and his mother are still living
in a tent.

4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$
50,000 ) by the government
to buy their first apartment so to help start up the
family.

5. Education and medical treatments are free in
Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25%
of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%.

6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career,
they would receive farming
land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and
livestock to kick- start their farms
– all for free.

7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical
facilities they need in Libya,
the government funds them to go abroad for it –
not only free but they get US
$2, 300/mth accommodation and car allowance.

8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government
subsidized 50% of the price.

9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0. 14 per liter.

10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves
amount to $150 billion – now
frozen globally.

11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after
graduation the state would
pay the average salary of the profession as if he or
she is employed until
employment is found.

12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to
the bank accounts of all
Libyan citizens.

13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US
$5 ,000

14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15

15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree

16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation
project, known as the Great
Man-Made River project, to make water readily
available throughout the desert
country.
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Post by MJ Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:25 am

IF that's all true, it sounds like a sweet gig.
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Post by JAY-Z Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:44 am

Soul wrote:Guys I've come across some stuff a guy posted in FB, so can anyone validate these points for me?

--


Libya & QADDAFI ...FACTS THAT CANT BE DENIED
1. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free
for all its citizens.

2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are
state-owned and loans given
to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.

3. Home considered a human right in Libya –
Gaddafi vowed that his parents
would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a
home. Gaddafi’s father has
died while him, his wife and his mother are still living
in a tent.

4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$
50,000 ) by the government
to buy their first apartment so to help start up the
family.

5. Education and medical treatments are free in
Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25%
of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%.

6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career,
they would receive farming
land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and
livestock to kick- start their farms
– all for free.

7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical
facilities they need in Libya,
the government funds them to go abroad for it –
not only free but they get US
$2, 300/mth accommodation and car allowance.

8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government
subsidized 50% of the price.

9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0. 14 per liter.

10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves
amount to $150 billion – now
frozen globally.

11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after
graduation the state would
pay the average salary of the profession as if he or
she is employed until
employment is found.

12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to
the bank accounts of all
Libyan citizens.

13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US
$5 ,000

14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15

15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree

16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation
project, known as the Great
Man-Made River project, to make water readily
available throughout the desert
country.

Now thats what confuses me.


Why if they had all thoose good things, they wanted to put down Gadaffi?
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