Very good article by Goal.com writer on Barcelona football evolution

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Very good article by Goal.com writer on Barcelona football evolution Empty Very good article by Goal.com writer on Barcelona football evolution

Post by jibers Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:02 pm

Very thorough and well written article. No bashing here or fan wars. Just discuss the tactics please, and keep it civil.
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277/la-liga/2011/08/16/2622337/with-the-signing-of-arsenals-cesc-fabregas-barcelona-could-begin-
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Very good article by Goal.com writer on Barcelona football evolution Empty Re: Very good article by Goal.com writer on Barcelona football evolution

Post by Mr Nick09 Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:18 pm

It's actually a very interesting piece indeed. The concept is sound and fantasist at the same time, and looking at what they achieved in the past, it wouldnt be very surprising.

However, that journalist underrates the role of Busquets in the barca system even more than we do in this forum. The defensive aspect of that position isnt something you can match alone with workrate. Busquets is in truth a tactical beast, which makes him virtually irreplaceable in that system the way it is now.

Busquets, despite being so good tactically isnt a natural defender, and while he will improve, he will be a bit of a drawback for his own side. Xavi isnt getting younger, and playing him in a brand new role might not be a sane idea. Sure Fabregas can be tried there instead, but it's going to have the same effect, no balance.

In theory it's a nice idea, just doubt it will come to fruition.


Last edited by St_Nick09_of_Goal on Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Madrid One Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:19 pm

any good team does that.

let them write a sole article on coentrao...
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:26 pm

It's an interesting article, but TBH I think it's overstating the "revolutionary" aspect of it all.

A lot of teams have been focusing on playing CBs with playmaking abilities. In fact, you might say that Barca would still be two years behind Bayern, Dortmund - or most obviously: Germany in that regard.

People have often wondered why players like Tasci and Badstuber kept being recalled into club and country squad when they never looked a hundred percent comfortable in defence.

Well here's your reason.

They're good at playmaking, for a defender. In fact players like Hummels, Aogo, Boateng etc. have previously played as DMs before moving to the back four, so it's really nothing new.

I'd say most modern teams require all of their back four to be comfortable with the ball at their feet even under pressure, to be able to pass the ball a couple times with almost no space available, and to almost never resort to long clearances into uncertain territory.

Sure, if Barca does this actually and conciously with trained midfielders, it's probably a bit more extreme than it has been done before, but, frankly, the idea that you have playing CBs isn't new.

That's what a sweeper was.
Sure, the days of the Kaiser are long gone, but with CBs like Hummels or Pique, do you really need a DM in your back four? They do it just as well, and could probably comfortably move to a DM position.
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Very good article by Goal.com writer on Barcelona football evolution Empty Re: Very good article by Goal.com writer on Barcelona football evolution

Post by free_cat Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:30 pm

Actually, Barça youth team's ahve been developing CB's that were previously midfielders since some time now(Fontas, Bartra, Valiente...).

On the specific setup proposed by the article, I don't think it can work for the reasons Nick stated. And I don't think Pep is planing this also.
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Post by The Madrid One Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:30 pm

the article is making it seem like barcelona are the only club that can do it, can do it right, and bla bla bla.

in the world of football there is such a thing as tactics and when you play them right you will find yourselves with a lot of opportunity.

now here they are talking about "Revoulutionary" defensive adjustments, but how revolutionary is it when anyone with a good tactical brain and with the right tools can do it.

mourinho has aided his midfield and defense before to get players to play in various positions to help in both defence and attack like eto,essien,coentrao, the list is great.

any good team that knows what its doing knows those principles. make a team work with that you have, and exploit your resources.

"A Barcelona team which are far, far ahead of their rivals will evolve the game as we know it."

really?
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Post by Mr Nick09 Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:38 pm

This is just for tactics TMO, we know it's biased to the core, but who cares.
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Post by The Madrid One Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:39 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:This is just for tactics TMO, we know it's biased to the core, but who cares.
its tactics, don't have to gloat about barcelona being "innovators", or just another breed of football. thats all.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:46 pm

it's not important ffs, let it go, just talk tactics.

that's how good threads turn into stupid real v barca flame war, only thing missing is Lionel messi responding to u...

it's not needed here
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Post by The Madrid One Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:50 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:it's not important ffs, let it go, just talk tactics.

that's how good threads turn into stupid real v barca flame war, only thing missing is Lionel messi responding to u...

it's not needed here
take a chill pill nick, just making a small point here, youre the one that had produced 2 replies from both me and you towards this, forget it if you want. i for one wont get in a trolling fight, ill discuss tactics and "philosophies" in a civilized manner, if they cant then thats another story.

you want tactics? then heres a gold mine

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/29/greece-euro-2004-tactics/
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/24/barcelona-2008-09-pep-guardiola-4-3-3/
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/08/teams-of-the-decade-3-porto-2002-04/
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Post by guest7 Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:55 pm

If anything I think they are moving for a 3-4-3, it's completly stupid to move Busquets to a CB role when he is better as a midfielder, besides in a 3-4-3 they can play the "defensive possesion".
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Post by kiranr Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:58 pm

Busquets should be closer to Xavi and Iniesta, not farther.

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Post by Albiceleste Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:28 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:it's not important ffs, let it go, just talk tactics.

that's how good threads turn into stupid real v barca flame war, only thing missing is Lionel messi responding to u...

it's not needed here
really? grow up bro

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Post by jibers Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:37 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:It's actually a very interesting piece indeed. The concept is sound and fantasist at the same time, and looking at what they achieved in the past, it wouldnt be very surprising.

However, that journalist underrates the role of Busquets in the barca system even more than we do in this forum. The defensive aspect of that position isnt something you can match alone with workrate. Busquets is in truth a tactical beast, which makes him virtually irreplaceable in that system the way it is now.

Busquets, despite being so good tactically isnt a natural defender, and while he will improve, he will be a bit of a drawback for his own side. Xavi isnt getting younger, and playing him in a brand new role might not the the same idea. Sure Fabregas can be tried there instead, but it's going to have the same effect, no balance.

In theory it's a nice idea, just doubt it will come to fruition.

Good points as usual nick, I think he was trying to be romantic about the whole thing.

VivaStPauli wrote:It's an interesting article, but TBH I think it's overstating the "revolutionary" aspect of it all.

A lot of teams have been focusing on playing CBs with playmaking abilities. In fact, you might say that Barca would still be two years behind Bayern, Dortmund - or most obviously: Germany in that regard.

People have often wondered why players like Tasci and Badstuber kept being recalled into club and country squad when they never looked a hundred percent comfortable in defence.

Well here's your reason.

They're good at playmaking, for a defender. In fact players like Hummels, Aogo, Boateng etc. have previously played as DMs before moving to the back four, so it's really nothing new.

I'd say most modern teams require all of their back four to be comfortable with the ball at their feet even under pressure, to be able to pass the ball a couple times with almost no space available, and to almost never resort to long clearances into uncertain territory.

Sure, if Barca does this actually and conciously with trained midfielders, it's probably a bit more extreme than it has been done before, but, frankly, the idea that you have playing CBs isn't new.

That's what a sweeper was.
Sure, the days of the Kaiser are long gone, but with CBs like Hummels or Pique, do you really need a DM in your back four? They do it just as well, and could probably comfortably move to a DM position.

Very true. It's been german tradition to have ball playing defenders.
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Post by Giggslegend Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:33 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:it's not important ffs, let it go, just talk tactics.

that's how good threads turn into stupid real v barca flame war, only thing missing is Lionel messi responding to u...

it's not needed here
really? grow up bro

you can set your watch to it
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Post by windkick Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:48 pm

free_cat wrote:Actually, Barça youth team's ahve been developing CB's that were previously midfielders since some time now(Fontas, Bartra, Valiente...).

On the specific setup proposed by the article, I don't think it can work for the reasons Nick stated. And I don't think Pep is planing this also.

Yea Pique even was a DM at one point
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Post by Ganso Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:51 pm

back 4
xavi-busquets-cesc
Sanchez-Messi-Iniesta

Thats what i would do
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Post by windkick Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:58 pm

---------------Valdes

Alves-Masch(Fontas)-Pique(Puyol)-Abidal(Adriano)

---------------Xavi(Busi)

--------Cesc(Thiago)---------Iniesta(Keita)

Alexis(Affelay)-------------Villa(Pedro)

-----------------Messi



In reality there's allot of different combinations to be made here, given the fact we have quite a few players who can play in various positions
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Post by Albiceleste Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:41 pm

Ganso wrote:back 4
xavi-busquets-cesc
Sanchez-Messi-Iniesta

Thats what i would do
Iniesta is wasted at the wing pale

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Post by Ganso Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:44 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:
Ganso wrote:back 4
xavi-busquets-cesc
Sanchez-Messi-Iniesta

Thats what i would do
Iniesta is wasted at the wing pale
he played pretty well every time ive seen him at the wings,he plays like that for spain sometimes if im correct.

I honestly dont think Xavi can fill the dm role.maybe in la liga but def not in cl
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Post by S32TABLANCA Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:19 pm

I thought the article was good, but exxagerated as hell. If Barca do that and Alves already plays in mid, that means they will only have 2 pure defenders... lulz. If the two fullbacks work hard as defenders, though, a 3-4-3 with Busquets as a kind of sweeper-playmaker can work. Not as revolutionary and earth-shaking as the article pretends, though.
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