What is the cause of Guardiola's success?

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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:43 am

Any half decent manager could do well with Barcelona. Plus Guardiola's transfers have been terrible at many time, but because he's at Barcelona he gets away with it. He won't at any other club...

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Post by windkick Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:45 am

The xcx wrote:
windkick wrote:This forum is starting to suck, a honest question and what could of been a well thought out discussion turns in to immediate pointing of instances of "luck", UEFA conspiracies, cheating and "wouldn't of won if" instead of giving any form of praise to a very successful manger or even discussing the topic itself
alright, lucks, conspiracies and cheatings aside, how is he successful then? It must be benefitting from the players, because there are quite a talented ones in barca. But in the end, dosent every successful manager benefit some part from the players? Pep isint known as tactical genius now is he?

There you go, now you are discussing....

Once people stop with the bashing and silly insults, a good topic can be talked about. Sadly all this forum does now is just wait for opportunities to bash Barca
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Post by StevieRayVaughan Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:53 am

First of all, I don't think Pep is any where near tactically as good as someone like Mou because he is a different type of coach. While i believe Mou is comfortably the better manager, that isn't necessarily bad for Pep since Mou is held in such high regards.

I feel Pep is one of the best motivators in world football. The players absolutely adore him/idolize him which is one of the main reasons for his success because they feel he is "one of them". I do understand the point that he has the best team in the world, but you still need to win don't u? He does that extremely well.

Look at it this way, I dont think any other coach can achieve what Pep did at Barca, and i dont think pep can ever achieve his success of barca. They are a perfect match.

But i hope he does go to a different club to challenge himself, then he can truly show how good he is. I do think he is a excellent manager.

Just for the sake of comparisons,

I would say someone like Mou would be 9.5/10, whereas Pep would a solid 8 (with a lot of room for improvement).





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Post by ♠Ace Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:28 am

windkick wrote:Once people stop with the bashing and silly insults, a good topic can be talked about. Sadly all this forum does now is just wait for opportunities to bash Barca

The best thing you can do is ignore. Let's be honest, Madrid + Barca fans will always be looking for the opportunity to stab each other in the back.

Guardiola has got barca playing some great football, but he did inherit an amazing attacking squad. The fact is, we won't really know how good Pep is till he manages another club.

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Post by harhar11 Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:53 am

english_jewel wrote:Any half decent manager could do well with Barcelona. Plus Guardiola's transfers have been terrible at many time, but because he's at Barcelona he gets away with it. He won't at any other club...

Like rijkaard you mean :coffee:

Mr.Hendrix wrote:First of all, I don't think Pep is any where near tactically as good as someone like Mou because he is a different type of coach. While i believe Mou is comfortably the better manager, that isn't necessarily bad for Pep since Mou is held in such high regards.

I don't understand why every defensive minded manager is considered a brilliant tactician. I mean, every team that manage a "small" team uses that tactic simply because its the easiest way to get results. The only difference between them and mourinho, is that mourinho has a team that cost over 100+ million.


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Post by kiranr Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:01 am

Why can't we know how good Pep is? He can only use what is available to him and he can only beat what is in front of him.

He succeeded with the Barca B team, bringing them to the second division. Now he has succeeded with Barcelona.

His tactical prowess is excellent. Do you remember Pedro's goal against Manchester United in the CL final last year? That was straight from Pep's playbook. Infact, it was in his playbook for 3 years and the team had not used it till then.

Barcelona's pressing ability is due to Pep's tactical ability. The way Barcelona compresses the field of play when out of possession and expands it when in possession is amazing. Lot of teams press, but not many are able to achieve the success Barcelona enjoys.

All of the above are tactics that Pep has used and there are many more. Anyone saying Pep needs to succeed with other teams to prove his tactical ability does not watch Barcelona or is not able to understand the tactics Pep uses.

I agree that Mourinho is better than Pep right now, but that is entirely down to the number of years Mourinho has worked as a manager relative to Pep! And, it does not mean Pep is not brilliant tactically!

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Post by the xcx Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:16 am

harhar11 wrote:
english_jewel wrote:Any half decent manager could do well with Barcelona. Plus Guardiola's transfers have been terrible at many time, but because he's at Barcelona he gets away with it. He won't at any other club...

Like rijkaard you mean What is the cause of Guardiola's success? - Page 2 2859867778

Mr.Hendrix wrote:First of all, I don't think Pep is any where near tactically as good as someone like Mou because he is a different type of coach. While i believe Mou is comfortably the better manager, that isn't necessarily bad for Pep since Mou is held in such high regards.

I don't understand why every defensive minded manager is considered a brilliant tactician. I mean, every team that manage a "small" team uses that tactic simply because its the easiest way to get results. The only difference between them and mourinho, is that mourinho has a team that cost over 100+ million.

Every decent manager would put defence as a first priority when attempting to play a game and then think about attacking imo.
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Post by Ali Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:23 pm

Mr.Hendrix wrote:I don't understand why every defensive minded manager is considered a brilliant tactician. I mean, every team that manage a "small" team uses that tactic simply because its the easiest way to get results. The only difference between them and mourinho, is that mourinho has a team that cost over 100+ million.

I REALLY hope this post wasn't implying that Mourinho isn't a brilliant tactician. Like from the inside of my heart.

kiranr wrote:Why can't we know how good Pep is? He can only use what is available to him and he can only beat what is in front of him.

He succeeded with the Barca B team, bringing them to the second division. Now he has succeeded with Barcelona.

His tactical prowess is excellent. Do you remember Pedro's goal against Manchester United in the CL final last year? That was straight from Pep's playbook. Infact, it was in his playbook for 3 years and the team had not used it till then.

Barcelona's pressing ability is due to Pep's tactical ability. The way Barcelona compresses the field of play when out of possession and expands it when in possession is amazing. Lot of teams press, but not many are able to achieve the success Barcelona enjoys.

All of the above are tactics that Pep has used and there are many more. Anyone saying Pep needs to succeed with other teams to prove his tactical ability does not watch Barcelona or is not able to understand the tactics Pep uses.

I agree that Mourinho is better than Pep right now, but that is entirely down to the number of years Mourinho has worked as a manager relative to Pep! And, it does not mean Pep is not brilliant tactically!

I'm sorry my friend, but 1 play and pressing hard aren't exactly revolutionary . I don't agree with most people about how Pep is a tactical donkey, because he actually uses effective tactics, but hes not exactly Mou. Also, no, the reason Mourinho is better then Pep , is because hes better then Pep. Not because of how many years he has played, I can also say that the only reason Pep is close to Mourinho is because hes managing Barca.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:36 pm

LOL Pep is only good because of player's he inherited ?

Was Valdes anyway near as good as he has become under Pep?

Was Pique there?

Was Alves there?

Was Abidal anyway near as good he is under Pep?

Was Busquets in the first team?

Was Iniesta a starter?

Was Xavi anywhere near as effective?

Was Pedro in the first team?

Was Messi the double world player of the year before Pep?

Was David Villa there?

The answer to all of these questions is a BIG FAT NO Laughing
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Post by Doc Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:04 pm

All but two. Dani Alves and Abidal were always that good. Rest you can say is because of Pep's doing...

Also, one can argue for some of the players, it was a natural progression of the supposed talent but that is for another time and place.
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Post by kiranr Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:07 pm

ali8775 wrote:
kiranr wrote:Why can't we know how good Pep is? He can only use what is available to him and he can only beat what is in front of him.

He succeeded with the Barca B team, bringing them to the second division. Now he has succeeded with Barcelona.

His tactical prowess is excellent. Do you remember Pedro's goal against Manchester United in the CL final last year? That was straight from Pep's playbook. Infact, it was in his playbook for 3 years and the team had not used it till then.

Barcelona's pressing ability is due to Pep's tactical ability. The way Barcelona compresses the field of play when out of possession and expands it when in possession is amazing. Lot of teams press, but not many are able to achieve the success Barcelona enjoys.

All of the above are tactics that Pep has used and there are many more. Anyone saying Pep needs to succeed with other teams to prove his tactical ability does not watch Barcelona or is not able to understand the tactics Pep uses.

I agree that Mourinho is better than Pep right now, but that is entirely down to the number of years Mourinho has worked as a manager relative to Pep! And, it does not mean Pep is not brilliant tactically!

I'm sorry my friend, but 1 play and pressing hard aren't exactly revolutionary . I don't agree with most people about how Pep is a tactical donkey, because he actually uses effective tactics, but hes not exactly Mou. Also, no, the reason Mourinho is better then Pep , is because hes better then Pep. Not because of how many years he has played, I can also say that the only reason Pep is close to Mourinho is because hes managing Barca.

I gave AN example of a play. Imagine how big his playbook must be if that one was used 3 years later.

Then why are not most other teams able to convert possession as quickly as Barcelona does?

Who is talking about revolutionary? What did Mourinho do that is revolutionary?

Is the only reason Mourinho is better because he has won with 3 different clubs?
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:10 pm

Doc wrote:All but two. Dani Alves and Abidal were always that good. Rest you can say is because of Pep's doing...

Also, one can argue for some of the players, it was a natural progression of the supposed talent but that is for another time and place.

Maybe but my point was that people that say Pep is only good because of the squad he inherited.

Which is complete bs they finished 3rd ffs, also Alves was'nt there and Abidal was poor at Barca before Pep so it's not like he inherited either one of them playing at the peak of thier powers.

One Pep bought and one Pep was able to get the best out of.

Anyone who says Pep is good because of the side he inherited is either trolling or an idiot.
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Post by Doc Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:17 pm

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Maybe but my point was that people that say Pep is only good because of the squad he inherited.

Which is complete bs they finished 3rd ffs, also Alves was'nt there and Abidal was poor at Barca before Pep so it's not like he inherited either one of them playing at the peak of thier powers.

One Pep bought and one Pep was able to get the best out of.

Anyone who says Pep is good because of the side he inherited is either trolling or an idiot.

More delusional than idiotic. The argument is similar (not in topic but thought pattern) about Mourinho's success. Basically, there has to be reason he is great that wasn't by his own abilities as a manager and as a man. That same thinking maybe applied with Pep who I believe is a fantastic manager. Not too fond of his clothes but every man must have a flaw...
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Post by Abramovich Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:31 pm

That Øvrebø and the RVP sending off I'll never forget what a frakking joke.

Pep is a mastermind of teaching his players how to cheat :lol!:
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Post by SaintJoe Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:57 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:
The referee came out and admitted to it, and they got kicked out of the Champions League

Hmm... no we didn't?

Lionel Messi wrote:
If Porto didn't bribe the refs Mourinho wouldn't have won the champion's league with Porto

What? The bribery accusation was in the portuguese league.
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Post by Art Morte Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:11 pm

You know, guys, if an aunt had a dick she would be an uncle.
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Post by RED Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:23 pm

Because he is a great manager who steadied the ship after last year of Rykkard where they finished 3rd in the league.
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Post by Busby Babe Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:32 pm

One thing he has improved is their pressurising for the ball, they get it back almost instantly.
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Post by ChollaVille Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:06 pm

LOL at madrid haters xD
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Post by harhar11 Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:47 pm

The xcx wrote:
Every decent manager would put defence as a first priority when attempting to play a game and then think about attacking imo.

Exactly my point. It does not take a genius to play a 9-0-1 against a better team.

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Post by Khaled Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:30 pm

The Madrid One wrote:







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Post by white_star Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:52 pm

LOL at some of the madrid fans-just being jelous, Barca fans will praise there manager no matter what because just look what he has won for the team!!

All that aside Mou is better its true for now, might stay the best might not!! Pep does not have to switch teams to become better (ferguson). Pep just has to continue to be successful and will be a great manager, and it wont matter what couple people on a forum say lol!!

I also have to add that both managers have great tactics that are effective, which one is better is based on ones preference of the style. In my eyes (i like attacking football) Peps tactics are great and effective, the pressing, movement and attacking is great to watch. Mou is more defensive and i personally don't like it, but you do anything to win.
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Post by alexjanosik Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:41 pm

Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

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Post by Lord Awesome Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:49 pm

alexjanosik wrote:Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

Barca won that game through a mistake from the ref. More the refs fault than Pep's.
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Post by nichabr Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:00 pm

its annoying watching madrid fans get so jelous....barca are currently twice the team madrid are even if they do play with dirty tactics....

the only teams that should really be complaining and in my opinion deserve to complain are arsenal their the only ones who really got screwed with their goal scorer being sent off.....what do madrid fans have to complain about, their players coming out and playing a scruffy defensive failure and their coach making a fool of himself....
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Post by alexjanosik Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:03 pm

Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

Barca won that game through a mistake from the ref. More the refs fault than Pep's.

The closet Stoke fan.
Jog it on son.
The last time this happened I asked Stoke fans to kindly explain why the Special Five was so great tactically.And none could explain because he isnt.He is average tactically.Like I said any dumbo can park the bus.Hell even you can.
Doesnt mean you are Cruyff or Sacchi or Michels or Guardiola.

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