Newcastle United FC

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Post by Busby Babe Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:25 pm

Blue Barrett wrote:
redsnoopy wrote:i'm not very happy that my Newcastle is classified as "rest of the world". It should be put together n the main list with the newcastle logo

Not enough Newcastle fans for it to have its own section, sorry.

He's just being polite. The real reason is because they're 'a wee club from the north-east' Razz

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Post by BenHarrison Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:27 pm

Wow, not enough toon fans here to warrant a Newcastle section?!

In fairness, I don't know what we'd talk about. Certainly not new signings...

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:31 pm

BenHarrison wrote:Wow, not enough toon fans here to warrant a Newcastle section?!

In fairness, I don't know what we'd talk about. Certainly not new signings...

We could always rant about Ashley, Kinnear and Pardew.... you know the usual Razz
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Post by Faubert Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:22 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
BenHarrison wrote:Wow, not enough toon fans here to warrant a Newcastle section?!

In fairness, I don't know what we'd talk about. Certainly not new signings...

We could always rant about Ashley, Kinnear and Pardew.... you know the usual Razz
That would be more moronic, uneducated opinions about Ashley, then? He is an exceptional businessman, and an equally impressive football owner. It would be good if you could see past his geographical origin and recognise how much good he has done for Newcastle. He has secured the long-term future of the football club - investing £250m in the process - devised a highly effective transfer strategy, radically overhauling what was a technically deficient, overpaid sqaud; retaining the services of a talented, young manager when fickle, tactically weak fans called for his head, and delivered highs that include a 5th place Premier League finish and a European quarter-final. You're very lucky to have him. But, what, you don't like him because he changed a name and hired his mate? Embarrassing.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:12 pm

What good? we have finished top 10 once under his tenure Laughing

What's effective about his transfer policy? it relies on out of contract or clauses.... its a very limited strategy which has many flaws.

Funny that you mention the technically deficient squad considering that the manager doesn't have a clue how to use the current squad it makes the technique on show utterly pointless and deficient.

Also i'm from London so i couldn't care less where he's from....

While what you say is true about securing the long term future.... what future is that? mid table for ever because under Ashley and his no ambition ways we will never finish 5th again as he doesn't have the ambition to do so.

All he cares about is staying up, so he can get the TV money.

Also he is an exceptional businessman.... outside of football.

He doesn't have the first clue about how to run a football club.... he doesn't understand the game which is showed by his hiring of Kinnear, Pardew among many other things.

Like last summer when we finished 5th and needed to push on he only made one signing in Vurnon Anita who has been horribly mis-used by the manager.

Fair play to him he need rectify the summer mistakes in January but he only did so because we were going down otherwise and lo and behold this summer he hasn't learnt a thing and we are going into next season with a drastically unprepared squad.

While he has reduced debts this means nothing while you doing so you are effecting the teams performances and hurting the clubs revenue and other income with how you run the club.

No decent company wants to come near us as far as sponsorship goes and for good reason so we are left with horrible companies like Wonga who practically glorified loan sharks.

Also he didn't just hire his "mate" in Kinnear he hired someone who isn't fit for purpose as shown by his work as director of Football so far.

Not to mention Kinnear is responsible for probably the blackest season in recent history involving NUFC.

Embarassing? doesn't even begin to describe Mike Ashley.
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Post by Faubert Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:00 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:What good? we have finished top 10 once under his tenure Laughing
I've already covered this.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:What's effective about his transfer policy? it relies on out of contract or clauses.... its a very limited strategy which has many flaws.
That he is able to achieve remarkable value in the transfer market, and has radically transformed a rubbish squad into quite a good one. And what's so wrong about clauses, expiring contracts and contractual disputes? You bought Ben Arfa for ~£5m, Sissoko for ~£2m, Cabaye for ~£4m - dispute, expiring contract, clause.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Funny that you mention the technically deficient squad considering that the manager doesn't have a clue how to use the current squad it makes the technique on show utterly pointless and deficient.
Absolute nonsense. There are some examples of remarkable individual performances under Pardew. Ben Arfa has never been utilised so successfully, Demba Ba had never scored more regularly, Yohan Cabaye has occasionally looked phenomenal, Tim Krul has secured his first senior caps for the Netherlands, Santon returned to the Italian senior side, Coloccini made it into the PFA team of the year, and Sissoko had some quite astonishing performances as a number 10 - a position no other manager has ever played him in - before a thin squad and a massive schedule tired him.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:While what you say is true about securing the long term future.... what future is that? mid table for ever because under Ashley and his no ambition ways we will never finish 5th again as he doesn't have the ambition to do so.
Rubbish. You cannot see into the future nor do you know Mike Ashley. He understands the financial structure that he operates within - he is a talented businessmen, a remarkable boss - and effectively maximises the resources available to him - see my post about your transfer policy. Newcastle, after their huge January spending, will probably make a small loss this year. What on earth do you want him to be doing? Where is the evidence of his lack of ambition.  

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:All he cares about is staying up, so he can get the TV money.
Baseless speculation. Does not warrant a reply.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:He doesn't have the first clue about how to run a football club.... he doesn't understand the game which is showed by his hiring of Kinnear, Pardew among many other things.
Look at your net spend over the past 5 years and the squad he's assembled. And the magical Graham Carr - who hired him? And Pardew finished 5th, for god's sake. The LMA and Premier League manager of the year plucked from obscurity; Ashley ridiculed for sacking Hughton. But Mike was right.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Like last summer when we finished 5th and needed to push on he only made one signing in Vurnon Anita who has been horribly mis-used by the manager.
Mike Ashley retained the core of a squad that had performed so well, supplementing it with a young, talented Dutch international - a good window. How was he to know you would suffer so badly from injuries? Stop blaming him for things he has no control over.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Fair play to him he need rectify the summer mistakes in January but he only did so because we were going down otherwise and lo and behold this summer he hasn't learnt a thing and we are going into next season with a drastically unprepared squad.
Unprepared? You have one of the top 8/9 teams in the league. What on earth are you talking about? Do you want him to spend £30m every window?

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:While he has reduced debts this means nothing while you doing so you are effecting the teams performances and hurting the clubs revenue and other income with how you run the club.
Servicing the club's debts most certainly does not mean 'nothing'. What a foolish, ignorant thing to say. And now he effects performance? He's now the manager? More pertinently - is there anything you won't blame him for?

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:No decent company wants to come near us as far as sponsorship goes and for good reason so we are left with horrible companies like Wonga who practically glorified loan sharks.
You are aware of all the companies who offered to sponsor Newcastle. No, of course not. Next.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Also he didn't just hire his "mate" in Kinnear he hired someone who isn't fit for purpose as shown by his work as director of Football so far..
What has he done so far that has demonstrated he is 'not fit for purpose'? I have no idea.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Not to mention Kinnear is responsible for probably the blackest season in recent history involving NUFC.
Alan Shearer relegated Newcastle with his incompetence, not Kinnear.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:19 pm

Shearer Laughing

While he did an awful job as manager not even Mourinho would have saved us at that point.

I don't need to see anything in this role to know he's not fit for purpose, his past is enough to tell he's not good enough.

Yes we are unprepared, the squad is a good one outside wingers and strikers but Pardew proved last season he cannot get the best from these players so we need more to make up for that.

Otherwise i would be fine, although still think we are bit light upfront.

Also everyone knew the squad wasn't good enough to handle 4 competitions, which is why we had to buy 6 players in January.

Also servicing the club debts doesn't mean nothing in isolation but it does when you making the team go backwards and showing a lack of attention towards income.

Our commercial income is lower than it was 7 years ago and there are reasons for that and if the owner isn't to blame who is?

Also we may have finished 5th and Pardew may have got manager of the year.... but do you know who else finished 5th and got manager of the year? George Burley and do you know what happened to his team the following year? relegation.

It was a fluke.

As for the players.... Sissoko played well twice as a #10 afterwards his performances nose dived.

Pardew squeezed every bit out of the squad when we finished 5th and for that i have to say well done....

But the squad has changed since then, we had a hard working team who thrived on direct football which suits Pardew down to the ground in fact i'd argue Pardew would get more from that "rubbish squad" than he does this one.

This is a more technical team and one Pardew cannot get to crips with, this is another problem we have a manager who insists on long ball and no movement but have a buying policy which is mainly around technical players who thrive on a passing game.

Lastly his lack of ambition is obvious.... the only time he has spent any sort of money is when we looked like going down and he had to protect his investment and risk losing out on all the TV money.

Also i'm not aware of all the companies wanting to work with NUFC no but if we were a more commercially attractive club we wouldn't be aligning ourselves with Wonga which again is down to the owner.
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Post by Avram Grant Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:28 pm

Of course Mourinho would have been able to save us. Laughing

As of 2nd April 2009, we were in 18th, 3 points off Sunderland and 4 points off Portsmouth. We had a game against Portsmouth, a game in which we drew 0-0, thanks to the tactics from Shearer. Who could forget the three man midfield trio of Butt, Smith and Duff? The players looked completely bewildered during his time at the club.

I don't like Kinnear, but we would have stayed up.

Anyway, I have been looking for a general football discussion forum for some time. Hello. I am a Newcastle fan.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:35 pm

Lets be honest what happened before sent us down....

That mess with Kinnear, Keegan etc etc.... if Shearer kept us up it would have been a miracle.

We where already on the slippery slope before Shearer took charge and nothing was going to halt the slide.
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Post by Avram Grant Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:42 pm

Yes, although I do not think Kinnear did as bad a job as made out. He is not a likeable person, but more of the disruption and damage was done by caretaker Hughton.

We should (and could) have beaten Stoke away in April '09 - Shearer went with a 3-5-2 system that day and the players were utterly perplexed by what they were being asked to do. Have a look at Stoke's team that day. Utterly atrocious and we were lucky to draw.

Portsmouth, as covered, should have been three points. Our approach to the Fulham home game was also terrible from a tactical perspective, and we were beaten by a very workman like plodder side.
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Post by Faubert Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:53 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Shearer Laughing

While he did an awful job as manager not even Mourinho would have saved us at that point.
More drivel. Shearer managed one win in EIGHT, and you were relegated by a single point. A better manager - even Joe Kinnear - keeps you up

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I don't need to see anything in this role to know he's not fit for purpose, his past is enough to tell he's not good enough.
Part of your earlier post:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Kinnear he hired someone who isn't fit for purpose as shown by his work as director of Football so far.
Laughing


Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Yes we are unprepared, the squad is a good one outside wingers and strikers but Pardew proved last season he cannot get the best from these players so we need more to make up for that.
Don't be ridiculous. Make a best XI out of the teams that finished in the  bottom half last year and tell me how many Newcastle players you end up with. Your team is a good one.  

So what about when you finished 5th? I presume that was a total fluke or something equally as mental. You know, when he finished 5th ahead of the Champions of Europe, playing Mike Williamson most weeks. What did he prove then?

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Also everyone knew the squad wasn't good enough to handle 4 competitions, which is why we had to buy 6 players in January.
That's not true. Not only because your fully fit squad was capable of handling four competitions - two of which you were knocked out in the first round anyway - but because the majority of people accepted the window for what it was - good if unspectacular.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Also servicing the club debts doesn't mean nothing in isolation but it does when you making the team go backwards and showing a lack of attention towards income.
Showing a lack of attention to income?! Mike Ashley?! Come on, dude.  

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Our  commercial income is lower than it was 7 years ago and there are reasons for that and if the owner isn't to blame who is?
There's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that - you were regularly in the Champions League at the start of this century. Now I'm sure you're aware of the financial awards from playing in the Champions League - more people willing to spend more money to get a seat every week, more sponsors wanting to spend more money to associate themselves with your club.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Also we may have finished 5th and Pardew may have got manager of the year.... but do you know who else finished 5th and got manager of the year? George Burley and do you know what happened to his team the following year? relegation.
And David Moyes once finished 5th, and was then nearly relegated before qualifying for the Champions League. But that's not relevant either, yeah?

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:It was a fluke.
Ah, man. So it was a fluke. Laughing

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:As for the players.... Sissoko played well twice as a #10 afterwards his performances nose dived..
Fatigue, new country, new culture. A great player - and a potentially great number 10. You have to give him credit for that. Fair play, Alan, I say.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:But the squad has changed since then, we had a hard working team who thrived on direct football which suits Pardew down to the ground in fact i'd argue Pardew would get more from that "rubbish squad" than he does this one.

This is a more technical team and one Pardew cannot get to crips with, this is another problem we have a manager who insists on long ball and no movement but have a buying policy which is mainly around technical players who thrive on a passing game.
You don't play long ball, and this is something I can prove with stats. You can't argue with objective statistical evidence. And when Alan has had a fully fit team to pick from, you play an attractive passing game.
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Post by Avram Grant Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:00 pm

I agree that many of our fans (and especially the aggressive internet message board type fans) give Pardew too much of a hard time. They are unwilling to see that players must shoulder 50% of the blame for a poor year. And that is all it was - a poor year.

I am confident we will finish in a top ten position this year, even if we do not bring in any of our mooted targets.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:05 pm

Attractive passing game Laughing

We played the most long ball games in the league last year, more than Stoke Laughing


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4938214/Premier-League-long-ball-kings-not-Stoke.html

Also i agree our best XI isn't that bad in fact its good, but Pardew cannot get the best from it as last season proved so we need more to make up for that.

We need more in a few areas anyway but its especially important when the manager doesn't know how to utilize the squad.
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Post by Faubert Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:18 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Attractive passing game Laughing

We played the most long ball games in the league last year, more than Stoke Laughing

That stat is only for passes longer that about 25m, IIRC - which is why teams like Wigan and Liverpool are so high. Some proper statistical analysis - taking direction and proper length into consideration - will tell you that Newcastle played the 9th fewest long balls.

And you have played some very good stuff under Pardew - Chelsea (H, 12/13), West Brom (A, 11/12), Stoke (H, 11/12). Your expectations are clearly unrealistic, and your perspective hindered by your hatred of Ashley and your inability to grasp even the most basic logic.
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Post by Avram Grant Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:21 pm

Pardew has always struck me as one of the most impressive coaches because of his pragmatism. He is capable of mixing it up, long and short, dirty and technical, and that is why we finished 5th and came so close to breaching the top ten the year before with a strikeforce of Shola Ameobi and Peter Lovenkrands.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:23 pm

Expectations unrealistic? i don't even expect top 10 tbh, in fact i'm concerned about relegation Laughing

As for the style of play it isn't as bad as all that yes, but it sure as hell isn't free flowing or passing.

And it certainly does not suit our current crop of players with players like Cabaye and Ben Arfa often seeing the ball by pass them on regular occasions or too deep to be impactful in the final third.


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Post by Avram Grant Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:26 pm

I am confident we will finish top ten this year. And I say that even if we miss out on Gomis.

We have no EL, a good manager desperate to atone himself and a fit crop of players.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:18 pm

Good to see you two gents join our forum.

Are you both friends or just found out about this place from somewhere else?
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Post by Blue Barrett Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:12 am

Good to see lads giving Mole a run for his money :coffee:
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Post by Avram Grant Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:57 am

I know Faubert from old Twitter dealings. He's a very switched on Ajax fan with a great appreciation for our league.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:34 pm

While i disagree with him on Ashley and Pardew, i can clearly tell he's quite intelligent and know's what he's talking about to some degree.

Anyway on to the news ( or lack there of Laughing)

Gomis

Firstly there seems to be confusion on the Gomis deal.... some people are saying we have agreed a fee but are struggling to agree on wages and some are saying terms have been agreed and struggling to agree a fee.

Anyway for now we are at an impasse regardless.

Remy

We are in advanced talks with QPR over a Remy deal, with a loan deal seeming more preferable to protect us against his impending court case over alleged rape which i think is smart.

Talk QPR might want a fee thrown in though, so again we don't really know where we stand with that one either.

Bent

Apparently talking to Darren Bent's representatives this week.

Niang

There was talk this morning in the Italian media that we are looking to loan Niang with a view to a 6m transfer down the line.

That about deals with the transfer rumors....

Quotes from Cabaye, who looks like staying unless PSG offer something silly which looks unlikely since Verratti has signed a new contract.

The feeling in the squad is very, very positive. It’s nice to work in this atmosphere,” he said.

“We just want to progress with the ball and keep more of the ball than last season.

“We gave away the ball too easily sometimes. The manager wants us to take one or two touches on the ball and move after the pass.


“It’s good. We’re not 100% fit, but we’re working hard.”

Part in bold is encouraging if true, will wait and see if it actually comes to fruition.

On to more positive news... Steve Harper's Testimonial.

Steve Harper will celebrate his 20 years as a Newcastle player when a team of former Magpies superstars meets an AC Milan Legends side.

Alan Shearer, Les Ferdinand, Rob Lee and Faustino Asprilla will pull on the black and white stripes once again for a charity game at St James' Park on Wednesday, September 11.

They will be in good company too with the AC Milan Glorie squad featuring Franco Baresi, Palo Maldini, Alessandro Costacurta and Andriy Shevchenko.

All the proceeds from the event will be divided between three charities close to the 38-year-old Hull keeper's heart - the Great North Children's Hospital, the Sir Bobby Robson Foundation and the Newcastle United Foundation.

Harper, who made his 199th and final appearance for Newcastle against Arsenal on the final day of last season, said: "This match is a massive honour for me.

"I had a fantastic send-off against Arsenal at the end of last season, so this is really my opportunity to say thank you to a region which has given me so much support and to use my time to raise as much money as possible for three incredible causes.

"To have some of the best players to have ever worn the black and white shirt back at St James' Park alongside some of the greatest names from Milan is fantastic, and with every penny raised going to three important north-east charities, I hope as many people as possible can come along and enjoy it.

"I'm sure it will be a special night."

Baresi, who will captain the Milan side said: "I would like to firstly congratulate Mr Steve Harper on his 20 years with Newcastle United.

"I was very happy to hear of the possibility of AC Milan Glorie travelling and playing against a Newcastle United legends team at such a famous stadium.

"I know the passion of Newcastle fans and I know of the club's history and the love of football in the city, so I congratulate Steve and wish the fans and Newcastle United a magnificent occasion."


cheers
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Post by Avram Grant Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:50 pm

End the 4-2-3-1 madness.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:11 pm

Avram Grant wrote:End the 4-2-3-1 madness.

:bow:

Doesn't suit the team at all.

We just don't have the players suited to it.

I would either use 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 with Ben Arfa playing as the "1".
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Post by Avram Grant Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:23 pm

4-3-1-2 is probably even less suitable for our crop of players. Ben Arfa is not designed for a central role and that eliminates Marveaux, one of our most naturally talented players. If we do incorporate the suitable number 10 Marveaux, then there is no role for Ben Arfa.

It also aggravates some of our full back problems. Debuchy and Santon will be caught out of position even more with no designated cover. The potential overloads down that side are absolutely terrifying.

We must fit Ben Arfa and Marveaux into the same team. No 4-3-1-2.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:40 pm

While i do agree with all of that.

I do think he can play well enough for the system to work.

As for Santon and Debuchy being caught of position it is true....

But for such a system to work we would have to control the midfield a lot better and that is obviously a given.

While i agree with Marveaux and Ben Arfa in the same team would be great, we come to the two attacking fullbacks.

How would you fit Marveaux and Ben Arfa in the same team without risking defensive balance?

I would say 4-2-2-2 but again you are relying on fullbacks for width and if we don't control the midfield we will find ourselves with that same issue.

Basically we need to control the midfield better for any of these systems, ideas etc etc to work.

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Newcastle United FC - Page 29 Empty Re: Newcastle United FC

Post by Avram Grant Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:01 pm

My main reason for not wanting a 4-3-1-2 system is that we must have Ben Arfa and Marveaux in the same side. I'd go for a proper 4-3-3 and just put Marveaux in the middle.

Debuchy is one of our best players, but he and Santon will have to moderate their forays forward at times.
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