Is Xavi the greatest midfielder ever?

Should've narrowed it down to "Greatest Central Midfielder". It was already established in the last forum that it would be too hard to compare him with the likes of Nedved and Zidane, given that midfielders can play very different roles.

But, if we're sticking with this..I'm gna have to go with "no"

Voted no, for a reason.

Voted don't know because I well..don't know.

Actually I am closer to a no than to a yes.

The reasons are obvious. If it was "the greatest CM" - then ok.

Greatest midfielder - no.

As I said before.

He is greatest CENTRAL MIDFIELDER of all time.
Just MIDFIELDER... hmm... I don't know

He is the greatest midfielder i have ever seen playing football, In my modest opinion!

after watching TMO's zidane video today i really cant say as to who is the best midfielder i have seen, if you had asked me yesterday it would have been zidane without a doubt but if u ask me now i dunno because zidane is great and all but xavi does everything so elegantly it really overwhelms you. And i know that zidane is quite old now but its pace that weakens not anything else as time goes by.

as for best CM i have seen it goes to xavi the engine of this recent barca. i remember during euro 2008 the commentator said that the ball is safer at xavi's feet than in a swiss bank referencing it to his remarkable possession keeping skills

spanky489 wrote:after watching TMO's zidane video today i really cant say as to who is the best midfielder i have seen, if you had asked me yesterday it would have been zidane without a doubt but if u ask me now i dunno because zidane is great and all but xavi does everything so elegantly it really overwhelms you. And i know that zidane is quite old now but its pace that weakens not anything else as time goes by.

as for best CM i have seen it goes to xavi the engine of this recent barca. i remember during euro 2008 the commentator said that the ball is safer at xavi's feet than in a swiss bank referencing it to his remarkable possession keeping skills

LOL xavi is more elegant than zidane? Are you on heroin/coke/weed?

Xavi's work is definitely more subtle and harder to notice. That alone will keep him from ever been recognized in the same breath as some of the more recognized AMs of time. That being said, his work is definitely as impressive and important, especially for this Barca team. Although it has to be said that his partnership with Iniesta really allows Xavi to do the amazing work he does.

ragbirjosh wrote:

spanky489 wrote:after watching TMO's zidane video today i really cant say as to who is the best midfielder i have seen, if you had asked me yesterday it would have been zidane without a doubt but if u ask me now i dunno because zidane is great and all but xavi does everything so elegantly it really overwhelms you. And i know that zidane is quite old now but its pace that weakens not anything else as time goes by.

as for best CM i have seen it goes to xavi the engine of this recent barca. i remember during euro 2008 the commentator said that the ball is safer at xavi's feet than in a swiss bank referencing it to his remarkable possession keeping skills

LOL xavi is more elegant than zidane? Are you on heroin/coke/weed?

Imo Xavi is as gd as Zidane Overall.. Both achieved everything in footbal.. both had same influence on their teams ( CL winner teams (3), WC & Euro winner teams, + 6 Leagues).. so i don't think spanky said any thing wrong..

Zidane is a Legend, Xavi is too many People also a Legend.. he lead his team to win every possible trophy on Club & NT level!

alfredandrew wrote:Xavi's work is definitely more subtle and harder to notice. That alone will keep him from ever been recognized in the same breath as some of the more recognized AMs of time. That being said, his work is definitely as impressive and important, especially for this Barca team. Although it has to be said that his partnership with Iniesta really allows Xavi to do the amazing work he does.

Zidane had players like Viera, Makelele etc.. with him On France NT..

Zidane had players like Figo & Beckham etc.. with him in Real Madrid..

So?

I'm not saying it's a detriment to Xavi's skill, only that he's lucky to have formed a great partnership with another player, when many other great players don't get that chance

Giggity5313 wrote:I would say he is a unique type of breed of CM.

Best midfielder of all time? Maybe most accurate passer, but a midfielder is very loosely used, and can be expanded to include zidane, even messi and ronaldo.
So I say no. Unless you are talking about CM. Now that is a different story, he's definitely up there.
Makelele wasn't known for his amazing attacking skills btw khaled. Vieria isn't iniesta either. Iniesta contributes to the team and xavi so much more then anyone would think. (why i consider iniesta better then xavi).

1- yeah lol i know.. Makelele & Viera (DM/deep CM)!

2- Zidane was an attacking Midfielder like Iniesta.. while Xavi is a CM! both have different roles..
The only way we can compare Zidane to Xavi is the influence on their teams.. both lead their clubs & National Teams wo win everything..

Both won WC, CL, Euro & alot of leagues/cups.. Both were a very important part of their teams..

The point why i mentioned Viera & Makelele or Figo/Beckham etc.. to say that Zidane has great midfielder/Players with him...

Iniesta had Xavi & Xavi had Iniesta YES .. Same for Zidane ( this my the point)!!

Xavi = Zidane ( Acheivments)!

Yes he is.

Not the best ever, but imo he is the reason why Barca has success. I fear the day he and Puyol retires, from that day forward our reign of dominance will end and we will still be great just not on our current level

I am copying some of my recent posts from the old forum here. Since I am new to this one it will take me time to get a hang of how to do various things.

the fact remains that without him, his team mates won the world cup and the European championship and those are not bad tournaments to win while when Messi does not have his Barcelona team mates, his sum achievement is under 23 Olympics medal. Zidane took a French side without strikers to world cup glory, and a mediocre French side with an even mediocre manager to a penalty kick away from winning it for the second time and in both tournaments, he was voted the best player.

batman, this is something I too have had in mind for some time and have said several times before. To really be unquestionably established as one of the best players of all time, Messi has to show that he can win big or at least come very close without Xavi and Iniesta and that means with the Argentina national team.

You are factually incorrect though. Zidane was not voted best player in WC 1998. The honor went to Ronaldo and Zidane only finished seventh in the list. A lot of people forget that Zidane's contribution in WC 1998 was not all that much before the final. France relied most on it's excellent defense and their most outstanding player in the entire tournament was Lilian Thuram. Then Zidane became the man of the match of the final and is thus widely known as the star of the tournament but the final itself I give less importance to because Brazil were just not in the right mental state with Ronaldo's last minute illness. Zidane has done many great things in his career and is in my all time top ten. However this WC 1998 victory is much lower in quality compared to his other achievements. What it did do though, in his own words, is make him believe that nothing would ever be impossible for him.

Zico, Maradona, Rivelino, Ronaldinho, Zidane, Rivaldo, Sócrates, Ademir da Guia, Cruyff, Platini, Bergkamp, Gérson, Falcão, are better, just to name a few...

My reply to pedrobr is as follows.

Zico is often called 'White Pele'. He can be called an attacking midfielder or a second striker. A brilliant player who perhaps should have achieved a little more. I have read that before Maradona came to prominence he was considered the world's best player even ahead of Platini.

Maradona again was more of a second striker playing right behind Valdano. Yes we can also call him an attacking midfielder. Nothing more to add about a player who might just have been the best ever.

Gerson and Didi were in Xavi mould but I really doubt if they were better than him. Maybe they were the best of their eras just like Xavi is the best in this era.

Rivelino was an attacking midfielder and as per Maradona one of the greatest players ever. So no arguments here.

Ronaldinho can be called an attacking midfielder or a second striker. We have discussed enough about him.

About Zidane we have already discussed and debated to death.

As for Socrates and Ademir, they were good for sure. Socrates doesn't have much to show in terms of achievements as I have said before. Ademir played in a different era with not that much competition. It's hard to say much about him.

Cruyff was actually a center forward for his team but due to their total football he played all kinds of roles.

Platini is a very good comparison. All things considered I rate him a little ahead of Xavi due to standing out more as an individual. He is considered the best final passer but as I said before I don't think he was a full game orchestrator like Xavi. He was excellent at set pieces and scored a lot of goals. In terms of achievements he is a little behind Xavi having not won the world cup.

Bergkamp was more like a second striker. Brilliant with a very silky touch, no doubt.

Falcao came in as a replacement in WC 1982 and ended up second best player of the tournament. He was certainly a very special player but I don't think I have enough reason to say he was definitely better than Xavi.

Strikerless.HMM.So the likes of Heenry and Trezeguet were defends then.

Small mistake alex. Henry and Trezeguet were not ready then. They were in the squad but played very little. France played with Dugarry, Djorkaeff and/or Guivarch up front in those days. None of them were world class players.

Coming to 2006,he was nowhere near the best player at the tournament.
So average in the group stages that he was sent off and France won comfortably in a muct win game without Zidane.
The only great game he had was against an overweight and shockingly poor Brazil.
Again I could name atleast 2,3 French players were jst as good,forget other nationalitries.
Best player should have gone to one of Pirlo,Buffon or Cannavaro as they were far better than Zidane.

This is an exaggeration alex.

He was average in the group stages but really good in the match against Spain. As for the game against Brazil yes the Brazilians were in party mode and deserved what happened to them. However we should not ignore the fact that they were after all tournament favorites and he made them dance for 90 minutes virtually in a one man show. As for other French players who stood out I could name Vieira, Henry, Makelele and Thuram. However I think Zidane would still edge it just above Vieira.

As for tournament best player I think I agree with your choices. All three were very deserving but Zizou wasn't such a bad choice either.

Overall even though he didn't win the trophy I consider Zidane's WC 2006 performance far greater than his WC 1998 performance.

Just wanted to say something to all and especially to alex to give an interesting perspective to this discussion. See Lev Yashin and Gordon Banks are probably the best goalkeepers of all time but do we call them the best players of all time like Pele and Maradona? Whether we like it or not there is a gradation among the positions of football players when making a list of this kind that is irrespective of position. A central midfielder like Xavi or Matthaus will not sit at the top of such lists. In fact top twenty will be almost impossible for him. The initial positions will be taken up by forwards and attacking midfielders with a lot of flair and goal scoring ability. The central midfielders would come after that. Defenders and defensive midfielders would come next. Lastly it would be the goal keepers. I have enough reason to believe that Xavi is as good a central midfielder as any the planet has ever seen. If I cannot call him the best definitively then I can at least say the claim for him being the best of all time is no less than the claim for just about anyone. However his highest possible position in such a list will be where realistically a central midfielder could be placed in the plethora of such talent. My guess is between 21 to 30 at the best, 31 to 40 more realistic and maybe 41 to 50. He is very likely to be in the top fifty players of all time at least. So in such a list there will be a lot of midfielders ahead of him and thus I cannot call him the best midfielder of all time in spite of my immense respect for our maestro.

Let me also try to enumerate the list of criteria we need to look at when trying to make such a list objectively.

1. Natural talent of the player ( based on what you have seen of him and what you have read and heard ). We can call this the wow factor.

2. Achievements in terms of trophies and at times other statistics

3. Contribution to the achievements of all his teams considering the overall quality of the teams he played in, the kind of role he played and the number of times he was the difference maker when it really mattered.

4. Quality of competition he faced and the kind of competitions he participated in and how many times.

5. Consistency and longevity

Now how high would Xavi rate on these criteria? A little low on point 1. Very high on point 2. Reasonably high on point 3 considering he has players of the quality of Messi and Iniesta among others right now alongside him and played an understated second fiddle role in the Rijkaard era. Not so high on point 4 since first international football and now even club football are affected by mediocrity in our times. The late 80s, early 90s and even the late 90s would be considered a more competitive era for example. Extremely high on point 5. When you combine his scores on all these points you get a very fair idea how high he would rank in an all time list. At least that's my way of looking at things and when speaking on such matters I try to make an extra effort to be objective.

jdeepak14 wrote:Just wanted to say something to all and especially to alex to give an interesting perspective to this discussion. See Lev Yashin and Gordon Banks are probably the best goalkeepers of all time but do we call them the best players of all time like Pele and Maradona? Whether we like it or not there is a gradation among the positions of football players when making a list of this kind that is irrespective of position. A central midfielder like Xavi or Matthaus will not sit at the top of such lists. In fact top twenty will be almost impossible for him. The initial positions will be taken up by forwards and attacking midfielders with a lot of flair and goal scoring ability. The central midfielders would come after that. Defenders and defensive midfielders would come next. Lastly it would be the goal keepers. I have enough reason to believe that Xavi is as good a central midfielder as any the planet has ever seen. If I cannot call him the best definitively then I can at least say the claim for him being the best of all time is no less than the claim for just about anyone. However his highest possible position in such a list will be where realistically a central midfielder could be placed in the plethora of such talent. My guess is between 21 to 30 at the best, 31 to 40 more realistic and maybe 41 to 50. He is very likely to be in the top fifty players of all time at least. So in such a list there will be a lot of midfielders ahead of him and thus I cannot call him the best midfielder of all time in spite of my immense respect for our maestro.

Let me also try to enumerate the list of criteria we need to look at when trying to make such a list objectively.

1. Natural talent of the player ( based on what you have seen of him and what you have read and heard ). We can call this the wow factor.

2. Achievements in terms of trophies and at times other statistics

3. Contribution to the achievements of all his teams considering the overall quality of the teams he played in, the kind of role he played and the number of times he was the difference maker when it really mattered.

4. Quality of competition he faced and the kind of competitions he participated in and how many times.

5. Consistency and longevity

Now how high would Xavi rate on these criteria? A little low on point 1. Very high on point 2. Reasonably high on point 3 considering he has players of the quality of Messi and Iniesta among others right now alongside him and played an understated second fiddle role in the Rijkaard era. Not so high on point 4 since first international football and now even club football are affected by mediocrity in our times. The late 80s, early 90s and even the late 90s would be considered a more competitive era for example. Extremely high on point 5. When you combine his scores on all these points you get a very fair idea how high he would rank in an all time list. At least that's my way of looking at things and when speaking on such matters I try to make an extra effort to be objective.

jd
Interesting points but I dont agree and I will give my reasons.
You mention that in such lists CM's will naturally come down the order.
But Xavi should be the exception imo.
The simple reason being the mesmerizing influence he has even on the biggest of matches.
CM's are generally not included in such lists because they just dont have such influence on a match.
There has not been a CM in history who has had influence on a match as Xavi.So based on his influence on a match combined with all that he has achieved I think he deserves to be called the best midfielder of all time.
Take Xavi vs Zidane itself.
Name a match in which Zidane had as much influence as Xavi in the CL final or Xavi in the Clasico or Xavi at the Emirates(I could go and on).
You wont be able to find any.Maybe the match against Brazil but then again it was nowhere near as impressive as the ones I listed.

And thats the reason why Xavi,even though a CM deserves to be the best.Other CM's just havent had his influence on a game.

Thanks alex.

See you are right that Xavi is outstanding at what he does. However the natural ability or the wow factor that I mentioned has to seen as the combination of all the skills you have and how good you are at each. Xavi scores very high on passing, vision, game intelligence and tactical qualities. However he does not score so high in touches on the ball, close control, dribbling and goal scoring. So he will not rate low on this point but not as high as some of the all time greats.

As for the point about influence, as I said a few things need to be looked at here. Xavi will score high on influence on a game and key games for that matter but considering the quality of the team mates he had both at club and national level will bring down his contribution score a little. Also the fact that he was not such a key player in the Rijkaard era for several years will decrease what he scores from his career before Aragones and Guardiola arrived on the scene.

So lets revisit the question again.
A year on from dominating United in the CL final,Xavi steps up yet again and puts in another peerless performance in the Euro final.
And that too against all odds,playing out of position at AM,having no forwards in front of him to pass to and tasked with negating the influence of Pirlo.Came out flying with all colors.Used all his skill,experience,vision, passing,tactical awareness and put in a MOM performance.
So the answer for me is a resounding yes.IMO he is the best midfielder of all time.

alexjanosik wrote:So lets revisit the question again.
A year on from dominating United in the CL final,Xavi steps up yet again and puts in another peerless performance in the Euro final.
And that too against all odds,playing out of position at AM,having no forwards in front of him to pass to and tasked with negating the influence of Pirlo.Came out flying with all colors.Used all his skill,experience,vision, passing,tactical awareness and put in a MOM performance.
So the answer for me is a resounding yes.IMO he is the best midfielder of all time.

Dictating I agree, generally? Too broad, if you need a b2b cm like Viera or Essien then Xavi won't fit the bill. If you need a conductor then he is peerless.