La Liga 2024/25

Too easy for Betis that goal but what a neat finish...

La liga the most competitive league

I bet Carlo and the players are loving life right now - watching Barca drop points like confetti and still somehow managing to miss the party!

Expect Real to take 3 points vs Girona... vs the likes of Romeu n Van De Beek? Even though still relying on Modric ffs... half a B team Real still better than us

After Sandro and the likes, we've lost points against yet another bunch of our rejects; Roque, Bartra, Ez Abde etc. This is embarrassing given Betis are really poor this season

Good match for Real Madrid with plenty of positives.

1. We played with a 4231 with Mbappe playing centrally, Brahim playing on the left and tracking back on that wing, and with Bellingham as the fulcrum between midfield and attack, offering himself between the lines, dropping back to help the team process the ball in deeper inside midfielder/CM positions and also in a good position to be a goal/assist threat and to help with pressing and the organization of same down the middle. What we saw today is along the lines of the 4231/4141 hybrid that I liked when we used it against Espanyol earlier this season (Rodrygo was playing left wing with Mbappe central) and that I've been asking for with Mbappe playing as a CF, Bellingham as a 10, and ideally Vinicius down the left as a LW rather than more of a LCF in a 442/4222. I had been a fan of the 442/4222 but it's not working and it's arguably taking away from better positions (team wise) for Bellingham, Vinicius, and Mbappe.

The individual and team based trade offs and dynamics that this sort of scheme with this sort of player positioning brings is what I think we should focus on.

I was watching some Bayern footage from 2011-2013 the other day and Ribery and Robben were running and tracking back functionally on the flanks with Muller and Gomez/Mandzukic playing centrally and Muller floating. I think Vinicius has the character and humbleness to do the type of running Ribery could do if Ancelotti asks it from him and trains him for it.

Otherwise you have Bellingham having to reduce himself from an arguably more omnipotent and optimized role in attack, defense, and transition if he has to play as a left midfielder in a 442/4222.

2. It was also good too see some good enough turning and link up snapshots from Mbappe, as well as running behind the Girona defense with pace that is good to see. He also took his shirt off and he reminded me of Tobey Maguire post spider bite in the Sam Raimi film. He's putting in the work while remaining lean enough. For comparison's sake I believe CR7 hulked up too much in 10/11 in comparison to 09/10 and was a bit slower and less nimble for it.

3. Tchouameni also showing how his powers and tradeoffs are probably more enhanced and suited for a CB role.

4. Also of note is that I don't think Valverde has an optimized chance of being an organizing CM from the right, and that's not what is being asked of him anyways (that was Modric's role) and Guler can be better still from the right but he's not the optimal profile there, particularly if he doesn't have a good full back overlapping him and if Brahim and Rodrygo can offer more optimized dynamics from there.

Vinicius originally was a traditional winger before he came to Madrid tmo wat u on about?

A tale of two halfs sums up Madrid season so far. 4231 is possible but there will be a lot of sacrifices defensively to make the offense work and it was girona whom we were up against.

Not sure if we'll see similar against a better team so I'll reserve my judgment on the formation.

There's a difference between on paper having been or being a winger and actually being a winger in the present who actually consistently passes the eye and tactics test and the numbers test (i.e. defensive running and actions metrics) defensively.

For multiple reasons I would very much like to see an extended period where Rodrygo (RW) and Vinicius (LW) are made to run up and down the left and the right in a defensively functional way in the way a "modern side" would have. Due to club culture and specific coaching philosophies and dynamics at the club I don't know how possible that is at the current moment at the club. If I remember correctly Ancelotti went as far as to somewhat excuse Vinicius and Mbappe from defensive expectations in a press conference from like a month and a half ago.

When playing 442 Vini is being indulged defensively, same in 433 as it's been Rodrygo who falls back to complete a line of 4 with the 3 midfielders while the team defends in 442 with Vini as LCF. And with 4231 this season to my recollection it's either been that we've used it when Vini hasn't been available (e.g. against Girona yesterday and against Espanyol earlier in the season) or if Vini has been playing the same thing has been done where the team structure is adjusted so as to excuse Vini.

CR7 on paper was a left winger from 09/10-12/13 here but I'll be damned if he was actually pulling of a modern back and forth at elite intensity defensively down the flank. The team had to adjust and either we were poorer defensively in multiple phases because of him even if he did track back or it was Ozil or Alonso who would have to adjust towards the flank to make up for how we had to excuse CR7.

For a 4231 one the biggest questions then is can Vini do what Brahim, Arda, and Rodrygo can do defensively without getting butthurt or being a non functional liability. I say he can and has in the past, but I don't know that that is the expectation or wish Carlo has atm. I think he's wanting to pull off that more traditionalist thing where other players are somewhat sacrificed to make a functional scheme work more so from the talent of the players and the intensity of particularly the midfield line than a more "modern thing" that entails very precise and specific tactical and intensity expectations on each and every player.

Mbappe seemingly picking up some form already.. so when Vinis back n they keep sorting out their game, the will finally hit the ground running? Bellingham ran the show though it was a very poor Girona as expected...

Mbappe is exactly the same. Jude has picked up form though so that's great

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/42908642/barcelona-coach-hansi-flick-handed-two-game-touchline-ban

He gets banned for doing something every other coach does every other game... he will get used to it n learn his lesson I hope, we are not Real afterall

Girona in shambles. A red card in their favor and still they lose. Mallorca don't shive. Hope they aren't like that when we meet.

The stats are telling too. 69% possession and nothing to show for it. Pathetic.

Hopefully Real Madrid are productive today. 60+% possession but only scoring one goal is disgraceful and an insult to attacking football. Well girona don't play to impress so I'll give them a pass.

Mallorca, on the cusp of relegation last season to 5th place this year.

All these so called liga lower teams are making la liga interesting. Last year it was La Real, Betis, this year who knows. Villareal are back. Bilbao is looking very competitive, both in EL and a strong 4th place in liga. Barca has a good coach and good starting lineup, but still no bench strength. Simone is finally playing some offense utilizing their summer signings.

All this good for liga, but I get the sense Madrid is ready for a good run. I felt in last game before Mbappe went off, he was showing some of the play, we expected. If we can Alaba back in near future and give Rudiger the redt that he deserves and is asking for, we will be ok. The downside is the Tebas version of Spanish cup in Asia??? Which will put more strain on Rudiger, Valverde, etc.

I just realized it’s not Spanish super cup next week, it’s a fifa intercontinental cup.

All these so called competitions are killing. It’s got to the point of ridiculous.

Off the top of my head

Europe super cup
Spanish extended super cup in Asia
So called world club championship
And this intercontinental cup.

Players are complaining but fifa, uefa nor Tebas are listening. Injuries galore and people blaming fitness coach! The players would boycott if they were organized, but they aren’t. They are viewed as commodities by FIFA UEFA AND Tebas

awful defending, that aint new. Asencio should have started as a cb rather than tchoumeni, such an odd experiment by ancelotti

Bellingoat ffs, what a game

Some notes on the first half of Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid:

- Both teams played 4231ish structures overall, with 442ish in defensive blocks. Vallecano came out more intense and assured, we did not match them at the start and... we blinked.

- Both Lucas and Fran were exposed defensively. Lucas is anticompetitive at this rate. Either bring a loaned functional RB during winter, try the RM youth product RB Jesus Fortea (who is one of the currently most hyped prospects of RM's youth academy), or put Valverde more often there with the return of Camavinga, or try Asencio at RB.

- Fede is the gift that keeps on giving. My "Schweinsteiger."

- If Lucas hadn't had a bad final touch on one of our attacking plays and if Arda hadn't missed his shot/had left it for the better positioned Jude we would have scored goals earlier and the dynamic would be different.

- Good attitude with the equalizing. We need to finish this off and win this. Maybe bring in Vini now and sub Arda out.

- Interesting fluidity among the front 4 and with the double pivot. Carlo is instructing better fluidity between the double pivot that is allowing Fede to play more as an inverted midfielder, he's better profiled to be participative.

- We could benefit plenty from being cultivated to play out the ball and hang on to it more, suppress the opposite team on the field and emotionally/psychologically that way. Not enough "control" from our part.

bill I thought Ronaldo's team was Valladolid?

I told you tmo that it was a 4231 that we're gonna be leaning towards. Indeed you will always remind us you spotted valverdes potential from the beginning. Without a doubt a valverdes camavinga duo should be strongly considered when both are available.

It annoys me that vinicius Tobias didn't work out. Vazquez is showing his age. Hopefully Fran steps up or we will need to change our setup as I don't see us signing anyone in January.

I like the fight we're giving but we're also making it too easy for rayo vallecano. We need to finish them off in the 2nd half. Obviously we're not gonna control the midfield considering who's playing. The double pivot requires personality and physicality and modric is too old.

Rodrygo needs to step it up a notch or sub him out for endrick. We need goals.

edit: as I was making this post Rodrygo scores. Excellent. As expected of my man. Now let's put this game to an end and put the squeeze on the title race.

Edit2: rayo vallecano really bringing the game to us eh. Figures. Ceballos needs to come on for modric. Not a lot we can do with defensive subs. Maybe bring in Vallejo for tchouameni. Our injury list at the back is dire

One can say many things about a Madrid match but boring is definitely not one can claim with seriousness. These wretches really trying hard to replicate what they did last year.

Edit3: didn't realize camavinga was available on the bench. Took long enough. But is it too little too late?

Oops my bad

Taking off guler is an interesting decision. feels like we got Carlo PSG today for certain.

I only got last 1/2 hour. I’m in Republica Dominicano and it took them along time to get a feed. Definitely a case of too many games and only able to get a decent lineup late in game.

Turok_TTZ wrote:Taking off guler is an interesting decision. feels like we got Carlo PSG today for certain.

Last year rayo vallecano caught us off guard and slapped us silly while taking the 3 points. This time around we have to share the spoils. Can't complain I guess. We didn't make the most of our chances and rayo always seems extra motivated against us.

At the same time screw your local team bill they did it again!

They are not my team. The schedule is the problem.

Some notes on the second half of Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid:

- Poor game management after the Rodrygo goal. We blinked. Again. Not enough control or possession dynamics that could help us with said control. RM too nervous after the Rodrygo goal. Rayo earned the result with heart and ridiculous from us to concede 3 goals. Lucas is anti-competitive. Clearly.

Incredible fail from Rudiger not to score the winning goal at the end.

- By the time they scored Modric looked ragged, he got subbed out way too late, again mistakes from Carlo with his subs timings.I had made the note to myself and somewhat alluded to it in my previous post that Lucas should be taken off, Valverde on to RB, Camavinga on to Valverde's place and Ceballos for Modric, all done too late, even if we had won.

- Even if we win against Sevilla we will end the calendar year 2nd (by 1 point) unless Leganes or Atletico give us a Christmas gift.

- @ Turok, yes 4231 is the way, and that's one of the several positives from this game, along with Tchouameni playing relatively well at CB and being kept away from midfield, and Camavinga and Valverde playing with movements that help them profile up on the pitch to be more participative (Carlo is finally having Fede and Camavinga play in more inverted central midfield positions).

Edit: First goal was not only on Lucas but also on Tchouameni and Arda to some degrees.



Today was a perfect storm draw, and it must have been one of the La Liga matches of the season.

futbol_bill wrote:They are not my team. The schedule is the problem.

I was merely jesting bill but I do recall on a previous occasion that you had leanings towards rayo vallecano despite being a Madrid socio.

@ TMO I merely suggested 4231 as a way to get the most out of the offense but there can be no pros without cons as we saw clearly today. The formation requires more defensive quality as it puts more pressure on the backline and admittedly we have been found very lacking defensively as of late. Carlo must be frustrated with our defensive shift. And the formation is out of now necessity at this point. Too many injuries and fatigue setting in.

But Bill is right. Too many matches and worse, the change of format of the CWC. Real Madrid is gonna be ragged and beat down liked a rented mule before the hell that awaits us in January. And that's without considering the CDR. Too many ****ing matches. Bill worked in the banking sector iirc, it's clearly his fault. Your lot, FIFA and La Liga are too greedy for profits and you steal your kickbacks from the blood, sweat, and tears of our players.