2022/2023 Premier League Discussion

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Post by RealGunner Sun May 14, 2023 3:14 pm

They are definitely the champions

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Post by Vibe Sun May 14, 2023 4:29 pm

Too much strength, too much depth, too much money.

GG Arsenal Molenation
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Post by Myesyats Sun May 14, 2023 5:47 pm

Arsenal crumbling, are they gonna come back again tho?
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Post by Myesyats Sun May 14, 2023 6:23 pm

Not today captain
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Post by Helmer Sun May 14, 2023 6:25 pm

City habe set the standards too high, Arsenal still had an amazing season and they are still in rebuild phase in my opinion. Good but still not enough and slowly getting there to compete at the top.
And glad that others fans are accepting that it is nearly impossible to compete against this City team. That is why I posted couple of weeks ago, any club has to be absolutely ruthless in the market and reshaping their squad if they have to compete against City. Then of course other things like coaching and tactics need to be spot on week in - week out.

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Post by Firenze Sun May 14, 2023 6:30 pm

amazing season? maybe by their shit standards, still below us though

1 trophy, 1 cup final

hehe

they benefit hugely by all of the other usual top 4 teams having their worst seasons in many years and were genuinely very lucky this season in general

quote me a year from now when they're sitting in 6th, Arsenal are not back

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Post by El Gunner Sun May 14, 2023 6:46 pm

we've been better than your shit club since SAF, bozo, sit down and stfu. When was the last time your shit club posted 80+ pts in a season and was in a proper title race
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Post by El Gunner Sun May 14, 2023 6:49 pm

we've been better than your shit club since SAF left, bozo, sit down and stfu. When was the last time your shit club posted 80+ pts in a season and was in a proper title race
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Post by Thimmy Mon May 15, 2023 7:45 am

Gundogan is an important player for Man City, and his talent speaks for itself, but several times this season I've read and heard people point out that City "have the likes of Mahrez and Gundogan on the bench" as a reference to their quality of depth, and I think it's easy to assume that these players who are both in their 30s would slot into any team as a starter and perform like they are now performing during the business end of the season.

If I were a potential buyer, I'd consider the possibility that they're hitting peak form this late in the season as a result of not having to play 90 minutes twice a week. That's a luxury that benefits Man City, and not necessarily a club like Barcelona, who don't have a lot of squad depth and would presumably expect him to slot into their starting XI. I imagine he would have his own expectations as well.
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Post by Nishankly Mon May 15, 2023 3:59 pm

Decent try from Arsenal but City is about to beat their total from last season. 95 points give you chance at the title against this City team, still no guarantee.
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Post by Winter is Coming Mon May 15, 2023 4:26 pm

Thimmy wrote:Gundogan is an important player for Man City, and his talent speaks for itself, but several times this season I've read and heard people point out that City "have the likes of Mahrez and Gundogan on the bench" as a reference to their quality of depth, and I think it's easy to assume that these players who are both in their 30s would slot into any team as a starter and perform like they are now performing during the business end of the season.

If I were a potential buyer, I'd consider the possibility that they're hitting peak form this late in the season as a result of not having to play 90 minutes twice a week. That's a luxury that benefits Man City, and not necessarily a club like Barcelona, who don't have a lot of squad depth and would presumably expect him to slot into their starting XI. I imagine he would have his own expectations as well.


Gundo has played 3500 mins across all competition this season, only Ederson, Rodri and Haaland have played more mins then him. I wouldn't say he had the benefit of resting.

However I agree with, there depth in terms of investment and talent isn't much different too most top teams. I feel Aresnal and Pool are the lightest, but RM in the CL had 2 players worth 100m, 2 players worth 35 mill and Mendy who cost about 50m, a healthy United side would have Maguire 80m, Martial 60m, Fred 50m, Lindelof 35m, Van Beek 35m, they would probably rotate between Wan Bissaka 50m and maybe even Anthony and Sancho who cost 80m each lol Chelsea lets not even talk about them, they have ridculous investment and quality themselves.

Even in Arsenal case, they literally dropped out early in most competition, further added Jorginho, Tossard and Kiwior in Jan, and Veira was signed in the summer for 35m and has played less then 500 mins in the PL. I can understand the depth arguement if they were competing in all competition, but that wasn't the case here, further more for league play they had good enough quality and depth, conceeding 3 goals to Southampton who are dead last at home and giving up a 2-0 lead to West Ham, is what killed there chances.

I hope Arensal invest more this summer, they're team can do a lot, if they keep building on this, but I feel their owners won't sadly.

If I was Arensal I'd target one of Laporte or Kim Min-jae for CB. Maddison for midfield, David for foward have GJ rotate between him and Saka.

This would probably cost Arsenal around 150-200 mill.

Next season top 4 will be hard, only 3 teams can make it into their, Chelsea won't have any Europe, Liverpool won't have CL (unless United or Newcastle choke), so they'll be heavy contenders. United will get maybe stronger and Newcastle will also get stronger, but I feel CL might do a number on them, but who knows.
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Post by El Gunner Mon May 15, 2023 5:00 pm

My window wishlist for Arsenal in terms of priority:
1. Rice and Caicedo (yes both! our biggest weakness is still midfield control, not necessarily numbers or quality in defense. Defense, as it has always been always, starts from having a stable midfield. Partey has been great this season, but his biggest drawback is being injury prone, and he seemed to just fall-off in recent for some unknown reason... however there are some rumours that he is carrying a knock, so yea, it may be that.

Rice can play as an 8, but it's more so having a stable pivot in front of the defense more than anything else. We don't need Rice going forward a lot when we have Zinchenko at LB going forward to occupy those midfield positions in order to create. Rice can simply fall back and cover for Zinny. Even better if we get Cancelo too who we are being linked with because that gives us more options for inverted fullback football both sides of the field.

With having CL football next season, we can gracefully rotate a midfield pivot between Rice, Caicedo and Partey - now that's strength in depth! Midfield instantly sorted out)

2. Ivan Toney (or some other goal scoring striker) Jesus isn't a good enough goal scorer, it's that simple.

3. Backup left-back if Tierney leaves (as mentioned Cancelo would be awesome if we get both Rice and Caicedo)

4. Improvement on Rob Holding


Last edited by El Gunner on Mon May 15, 2023 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Thimmy Mon May 15, 2023 5:00 pm

He's been rested regularly throughout the season. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I strongly disagree with your suggestion that he hasn't benefited from resting lol

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Post by futbol_bill Mon May 15, 2023 6:48 pm

Winter is Coming wrote:
Thimmy wrote:Gundogan is an important player for Man City, and his talent speaks for itself, but several times this season I've read and heard people point out that City "have the likes of Mahrez and Gundogan on the bench" as a reference to their quality of depth, and I think it's easy to assume that these players who are both in their 30s would slot into any team as a starter and perform like they are now performing during the business end of the season.

If I were a potential buyer, I'd consider the possibility that they're hitting peak form this late in the season as a result of not having to play 90 minutes twice a week. That's a luxury that benefits Man City, and not necessarily a club like Barcelona, who don't have a lot of squad depth and would presumably expect him to slot into their starting XI. I imagine he would have his own expectations as well.


Gundo has played 3500 mins across all competition this season, only Ederson, Rodri and Haaland have played more mins then him. I wouldn't say he had the benefit of resting.

However I agree with, there depth in terms of investment and talent isn't much different too most top teams. I feel Aresnal and Pool are the lightest, but RM in the CL had 2 players worth 100m, 2 players worth 35 mill and Mendy who cost about 50m, a healthy United side would have Maguire 80m, Martial 60m, Fred 50m, Lindelof 35m, Van Beek 35m, they would probably rotate between Wan Bissaka 50m and maybe even Anthony and Sancho who cost 80m each lol Chelsea lets not even talk about them, they have ridculous investment and quality themselves.

Even in Arsenal case, they literally dropped out early in most competition, further added Jorginho, Tossard and Kiwior in Jan, and Veira was signed in the summer for 35m and has played less then 500 mins in the PL. I can understand the depth arguement if they were competing in all competition, but that wasn't the case here, further more for league play they had good enough quality and depth, conceeding 3 goals to Southampton who are dead last at home and giving up a 2-0 lead to West Ham, is what killed there chances.

I hope Arensal invest more this summer, they're team can do a lot, if they keep building on this, but I feel their owners won't sadly.

If I was Arensal I'd target one of Laporte or Kim Min-jae for CB. Maddison for midfield, David for foward have GJ rotate between him and Saka.

This would probably cost Arsenal around 150-200 mill.

Next season top 4 will be hard, only 3 teams can make it into their, Chelsea won't have any Europe, Liverpool won't have CL (unless United or Newcastle choke), so they'll be heavy contenders. United will get maybe stronger and Newcastle will also get stronger, but I feel CL might do a number on them, but who knows.

I think you are missing the point regarding squad depth. First off the market for getting top players is only a handful of teams; the oil state clubs (PSG, City and now Newcastle possibly Man U in future) plus ManU, maybe Chelsea plus with some restrictions RMadrid and Bayern.

Then there is the next level, that can afford some but not enough to have depth as well. This would include Pool, Arsenal, maybe Spurs, and then Barca if they can get their precariously financial situation under control.

First priority is always starters, then it takes time over several years to build depth and keep in mind a lot can go wrong with selections. Your comparison of various teams includes players e.g. Hazard, ┬áthat just haven’t worked out. When talking about depth, you need to be talking about players that can contribute and are acceptable to playing that bench strength role.
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Post by Myesyats Mon May 15, 2023 7:21 pm

Thimmy wrote:Gundogan is an important player for Man City, and his talent speaks for itself, but several times this season I've read and heard people point out that City "have the likes of Mahrez and Gundogan on the bench" as a reference to their quality of depth, and I think it's easy to assume that these players who are both in their 30s would slot into any team as a starter and perform like they are now performing during the business end of the season.

If I were a potential buyer, I'd consider the possibility that they're hitting peak form this late in the season as a result of not having to play 90 minutes twice a week. That's a luxury that benefits Man City, and not necessarily a club like Barcelona, who don't have a lot of squad depth and would presumably expect him to slot into their starting XI. I imagine he would have his own expectations as well.

Pedri and FDJ are undisputable starters, so if we also sign Zubimendi who is a personal wish of Xavi, Gundo wouldnt necessarily be a starter every game
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Post by Winter is Coming Mon May 15, 2023 7:52 pm

I maybe misunderstood what you were trying to imply. I thought you meant he wasn't relied upon as much, due to him being rested too often. Making comparison with Mahrez also threw me off since he was been more largely a rotation option and being rested compared to Gundo.
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Post by Winter is Coming Mon May 15, 2023 8:08 pm

futbol_bill wrote:I think you are missing the point regarding squad depth. First off the market for getting top players is only a handful of teams; the oil state clubs (PSG, City and now Newcastle possibly Man U in future) plus ManU, maybe Chelsea plus with some restrictions RMadrid and Bayern.

Then there is the next level, that can afford some but not enough to have depth as well. This would include Pool, Arsenal, maybe Spurs, and then Barca if they can get their precariously financial situation under control.

First priority is always starters, then it takes time over several years to build depth and keep in mind a lot can go wrong with selections. Your comparison of various teams includes players e.g. Hazard, ┬áthat just haven’t worked out. When talking about depth, you need to be talking about players that can contribute and are acceptable to playing that bench strength role.


I understand that, my point was when I see largely United/Chelsea fans complaining about City depth or others saying nobody can compete with City I disagree with that, as most the top teams can do it thus I gave the amounts of players sitting on various benches. City are state funded and most likely broken many rules to get were they are, however they have been a lot smarter as club over the last 5-6 years, both United/Chelsea in the PL have the same financial power, they've been poor at it.

I mean he had a chances to sign Julian Alverez for 15m, but we ended up buying Ferran Torres for 60m and then City went and bought Julian Laughing
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Post by futbol_bill Mon May 15, 2023 9:44 pm

Saying they can or can’t compete with City is questionable. First off all clubs make mistakes with signings all the time, some being fault of clubs and some the player. And some clubs much more, such as early days of City, PSG, Chelsea this past year and of course ManU ever since Sir Alex departed.

Secondly, with good coaching and recruiting plus some luck in draws and avoiding key injuries, a lot smaller teams are able to compete, i.e, the Italians and Portuguese this year, Spanish in the past decade, particularly in Europa, and Germans besides Bayern in Europe.

And finally the necessity of good bench strength comes into play with injuries and hectic schedules particularly in February thru May.

And when you look into the bench strength, it is best to look at where the strength is versus were it might be needed. With Madrid, the midfield is great with even some of them able to play another position, e.g. Valverde and Camavinga. But they only have Asensio as a backup forward and literally no backups for fullbacks other than the versatile Nacho.

Bottom line to me is if you are other than City, PSG, maybe soon Newcastle, Bayern or R. Madrid, the odds of you winning CL is very slim unless you have incredible luck of draw and injuries.

You can add Pool, Arsenal, maybe Barca to the list in some years, but usually they have to prioritize league or CL. For that matter, RMadrid and Bayern also have to do this same prioritization.

I have excluded both ManU and Chelsea from this discussion, maybe I should also keep Barca with these two. Until they improve their signings and coaching esp with Chelsea, they are likely to remain as ‘hopeful of league success’, irrelevant in Europe!
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Post by Firenze Sat May 20, 2023 4:56 pm

90th min equalizer for Loserpool after being dominated and Villa missing a pen

and they get 10 mins of ET randomly so you know they're winning ffs

We would have guaranteed top 4 today if they lose
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Post by Firenze Sat May 20, 2023 5:06 pm

only need 1 point from two home games now, Chelsea and then Fulham

reckon we get that done on Thursday
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Post by BarcaLearning Sat May 20, 2023 5:32 pm

Too far a gap for Liverpool to catch Man U... Liverpool just had too many slumps this season. Man U arent that bad enough to slip up that badly.

Think read De Gea gonna win GK award or something for the most clean sheet? What a joke?
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Post by Firenze Sat May 20, 2023 5:41 pm

you have never had a GK as good as him lol

well deserved
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Post by Firenze Sat May 20, 2023 7:23 pm

arsenal Proud

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Post by Myesyats Sat May 20, 2023 7:56 pm

Barca, Napoli, Man City

CL Man City/Inter

WC Argentina

safe to say football won this season Molenation
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sat May 20, 2023 7:56 pm

Imagine spending literally billions and finishing below a team with Dan Burn in the team @Firenze
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Post by Nishankly Sun May 21, 2023 4:46 am

Arsenal, put themselves in a position of privilege above City (something even Klopp couldn't) and still crumbled. They won't even get 85 points after all this. Wow, they are such a disappointment. Best of luck worshipping this season to never again witness it you losers
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