Erling Haaland's adventures in Manchester City

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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Oct 09, 2022 2:21 pm

Following on from that, would love to see CR's assists assist stats or some kind of contribution to games won. Obviously his goals have been key as goals win games, but we all know the assists n play making is prolly way low to some of the top players in the lists mentioned Very Happy

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Post by Thimmy Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:33 pm

Myesyats wrote:Messi in 11/12 scored 73 goals across all comps but also had 32 assists which makes up for a total of 105 goal contributions.

That is impact on winning, not taking into account successful dribbles in opponent's half that advance the play and many other variables (for that refer to dr.@Harmonica)

Even if Haaland were to score the same amount of goals, he's never going to rack up nearly as many assists. So far he has 3 in 13 games, so he's on course for 14 assists at best, imo (thats being v generous, there are games where he has 2 touches on the ball)

To be the goat you also have to be an elite playmaker, imo.


Yeah, that's probably not going to happen. Even if he had some hidden, elite, playmaking ability, I doubt he'll ever play as a false 9 or in a role where you'd expect him to play a bit deeper and create plays for others. With his physical profile, you'd want him to be a spearhead in order to get the most out of him, not a slingshot. Unlike someone like, Harry Kane, he has blistering speed and power. Maybe I have a peculiar idea of how football works, but it seems a bit silly to waste that only to showcase some... skills.

If you need to be a dribbling playmaker in order to be considered in the GOAT discussion, then that scales down the scope of players eligible for that title quite drastically, which brings me back to the entertainment point. Every year, I see or hear someone criticizing the Ballon D'or and other award ceremonies for being popularity contests and not rewarding the players that deserve it, but is that really a bad thing if most people want to vote for whoever looks the most impressive, regardless of whether or not they achieved the most that season? I know I wouldn't have voted for Pogba in the EPL team of the season, but talent-wise, he's got a lot in his locker that he seems to be recognized for despite hardly ever putting it on display.

Man City is clearly not set up in such a way that everyone wants to bring the ball to Haaland at all times. It may seem that way with how many goals he's scored, but unlike Messi at Barcelona or CR7 at Real Madrid, Man City is a team with players in practically every position who want to get on the scoresheet, and there's probably no reason to change that when he can have an impact despite only having a single digit amount of touches on the ball. Efficiency is his biggest strength.

I think the main strength of this City team is that they have so many ways of approaching offensive situations that it seems impossible to contain them when they go forward. Even with KDB ignoring Haaland's runs behind the defensive line regularly, he still has the most assists in the league and they're creating more scoring chances than anyone else since no one seems to be able to contain the 8+ outfield players that want to get on the scoresheet.
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Post by Myesyats Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:50 pm

Thimmy wrote:If you need to be a dribbling playmaker in order to be considered in the GOAT discussion, then that scales down the scope of players eligible for that title quite drastically, which brings me back to the entertainment point.

Thats exactly why there is only one GOAT. These players are very rare, which is why they're so treasured. Thats the entire point, isnt it?

Messi is an elite playmaker and an elite striker. Usually top attackers are only one or the other, and several levels behind.
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Post by Thimmy Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:11 pm

I wasn't referring to the amount of players eligible for the title, but the profile of the player. It has to be quite specific if you're required to possess a particular skill set that may or may not have direct impact on the result of any given match. That's the opposite of what Cruijf mentioned, as it rules out most positions and favors someone who's circumstance in a club allows them to showcase their various abilities from an offensive position.

From what I understand, that's someone who has entertainment appeal. Like I mentioned before, Messi is an obvious choice by those criteria considering he's sustained elite levels of both entertainment and efficiency. I am curious if there's a specific line that's drawn to which entertainment and impact hold different values, or if it's arbitrary and subject to individual interpretation. I'm guessing it's the latter - no one knows, but everyone knows Erling Haaland's adventures in Manchester City - Page 10 1f605

I'm not trying to argue in Haaland's favor or that decisiveness should be the top criteria, by the way. But it is interesting to read what people think the requirements for that unofficial title is. The initial thing that impressed me the most about Haaland was that he's a big guy that has such a unique set of skills for someone of his size that I've genuinely struggled to compare him to anyone else I've ever seen in this sport, but it seems to me that a player is expected to fit into a more traditional mould in order to be considered truly "complete" and a valid heir to the "GOAT" title.
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Post by El Gunner Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:39 pm

simply put Timothy, Messi just has so much more to his game which means Haaland will never reach him in the GOAT debate but he has everything it takes to go down as one of the all-time greats (not just striker)
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Post by Found Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:34 am

Unbelievable movement and shot efficiency.
I seen a statistic that Kevin De Bruyne has twice as many actual assists as expected assists this season. My Viking is elevating KDB to double the amount of assists he deserves after years of suffering behind the limp wristed T-Rex impersonator. In less than 6 months all of Sterling’s bozo moments will have been cancelled out, unbelievable Jeff :bow:
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Post by Thimmy Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:53 pm

The more I watch it, the more I'm impressed by how incredibly good that ball from Ederson is.

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Post by Casciavit Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:43 pm

Ederson is probably the greatest passer ever as a GK. My issue with him is he isn’t an insurance policy as a goalie whatsoever. Goalies who have outperformed their xG conceded since 2014/2015:

Oblak: +74 (since his debut)
Alisson: +50
Donarrumma: +47
Lloris: +41
Neuer: +35
De Gea: +35
Courtois: +30
Ter Stegen: +21
Ederson: -4

Honestly think his 1v1 save against Salah last week was the first time he saved a shot that I didn’t expect him to. There’s a reason Alisson starts over him for Brazil and rightfully so. City's playing style won him a few golden gloves so his legacy will end up being greater than his actual performance level.
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Post by Thimmy Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:51 pm

Yeah, I agree. I don't rate him very highly as a shot stopper, but like with the rest of City's defense, I think they get away with being defensively flawed here and there since the team's playing style revolves around ball retention.
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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:03 am

El Gunner wrote:simply put Timothy, Messi just has so much more to his game which means Haaland will never reach him in the GOAT debate but he has everything it takes to go down as one of the all-time greats (not just striker)


Don’t agree. Messi was/is one of the goats because of his goals and end product. Same with CR, Pele. It’s a very fair metric to judge someone on. Maradona carried shit teams. The only player I can think of that’s in the discussion with that metric is Cruyff.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:58 am

i think you misunderstood what i was saying... i wasn't denying the impact of goals on greatness, i just said Messi is way more than a goal-scorer which is what sets him apart from the rest
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Post by Thimmy Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:52 pm

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Post by Thimmy Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:50 am




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Post by Varnagel Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:58 pm

Let's be real: Haaland is already one of the greatest strikers in history at the age of 22.

His goalscoring numbers throughout his career is mindblowing.

The question is if Haaland might end up as a GOAT-striker, which I think he will.

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Post by Firenze Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:16 pm

Just tied Messi's CL record of 5 goals in 1 game and he has 30 mins left
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Post by Firenze Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:21 pm

nvm pep subbed him lol
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Post by Thimmy Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:36 pm

Firenze wrote:nvm pep subbed him lol


He often seems to do that when he scores more than one goal in the first half Laughing
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Post by Glory Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:54 am

Meh. Doesnt matter even if he scores like 100 goals, if this so called GOAT striker cant help his team win the league or the CL, he should be regarded as a failure. League especially in which by the way his team were doing fine until he came along.

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Post by Thimmy Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:39 pm

Meh, you should probably worry about your own team. Which is currently in third, one spot down from your last season under your childhood hero, Ole despite having fixed your defensive issues and finally gotten rid of both Pogba and CR7.. and your bitter rivals, Liverpool. Kinda hmm Glory, glory Manitad+2

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Post by Lucifer Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:50 pm

That was brutal ffs. Guy screwed Leipzig so Hard, Benzema wanted to record it.

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Post by Vibe Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:59 pm

Glory wrote:Meh. Doesnt matter even if he scores like 100 goals, if this so called GOAT striker cant help his team win the league or the CL, he should be regarded as a failure. League especially in which by the way his team were doing fine until he came along.


I think too much emphasis is put on players winning trophies as regarding to their greatness.

It's a team sport, not only do you depend on the other 20 players in the squad but the entire club structure as well.

Sure, brilliant players elevate others but only to an extent. He wouldn't be a failure if he never wins a trophy in my eyes.
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Post by Myesyats Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:20 pm

Vibe wrote:
Glory wrote:Meh. Doesnt matter even if he scores like 100 goals, if this so called GOAT striker cant help his team win the league or the CL, he should be regarded as a failure. League especially in which by the way his team were doing fine until he came along.


I think too much emphasis is put on players winning trophies as regarding to their greatness.

It's a team sport, not only do you depend on the other 20 players in the squad but the entire club structure as well.

Sure, brilliant players elevate others but only to an extent. He wouldn't be a failure if he never wins a trophy in my eyes.

Nonsense.

Rashford >

Even if what sets them apart is one curacao cup.
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Post by Vibe Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:41 am

UCL will probably separate them after this season, this might finally be the year for City.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:54 am

please, we say that every year
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Post by Vibe Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:21 am

Well this is as good of a chance as they're gonna get.

None of the opponents look very impressive this season. Quite the opposite.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:49 am

drew Bayern and even if they get past that, Real Madrid most likely in the semis...

yea they're gunna crash out
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