The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3

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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:43 pm

Also I don't think we've ever proposed that any number of vaccinations are "enough"? Who is this straw man futbol is arguing with?
You keep getting vaccinated every N months until the personal and societal risk is much lower, at which point you probably stop. I don't think it's that bad? IDK what the problem on that front is.

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Post by Myesyats Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:46 am

LeVersacci wrote:I wonder how many shots will be given/forced to the public this year

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/top-israeli-health-official-approves-second-covid-19-vaccine-booster-2021-12-30/

Covid deaths last 7 days, yeah lets make fun of israel for vaccinating their people (:

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Post by LeVersacci Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:38 am

If your tiny brain took my post as something I was making fun of then I feel sorry for you.

I would hope the death data was low considering that's the only job the vaccine is capable of.
Sadly it doesn't prevent contracting the virus or transmission as the narrative was in the beginning.

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And if that's the case, then what's the point of the passports, mandates, lockdowns etc. still going on?

CDC director herself is saying 75% of Covid deaths came with people that had atleast 4 comorbidities.



Cases & deaths data are bullshit anyway as they count a person that came to the hospital because of a broken leg as covid positive, if the person had covid. Same applies to death. If a person died in a car crash and had covid, then they're added to the data.

Call me when we can see data between deaths 'from' covid and deaths 'with' covid.

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Post by rincon Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:44 am

LeVersacci wrote:
Cases & deaths data are bullshit anyway as they count a person that came to the hospital because of a broken leg as covid positive, if the person had covid. Same applies to death. If a person died in a car crash and had covid, then they're added to the data.

Call me when we can see data between deaths 'from' covid and deaths 'with' covid.

What a ridiculous way to discuss. The amount of bad faith in these arguments is incredible. Laughing
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Post by Myesyats Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:13 am

nutcase
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Post by futbol Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:40 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
futbol wrote:The numbers look fake for sure. Why would it be much different than in Germany, where it looks like this:

Calender weeks 49 - 52 (2021):

People in intensive care:

2 times vaccinated: 350
Unvaccinated: 850

Official numbers:

https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Wochenbericht/Wochenbericht_2022-01-06.pdf?__blob=publicationFile (page 24)

The ratio is about 1:2. Yet in France it's 1:20? Sure. Not sus at all. I suppose we Germans are made of Kruppstahl, after all.

Only in your wildes dreams does 2 times jab, that is more than 6 months old by now for the majority, give you real world 95 % protection (that's what 11 vs. 212 means). lol

If I'm served numbers like that, alarm bells should start ringing.

Also rest assured that even the German numbers, which are much more realistic, are still fake. They do shady stuff like adding "unknown vaccine status" to the unvaccinated or count people who are in intensive care for a broken leg and get tested positive for Corona by coincidence as a hospitilized Covid case. But only for unvaccinated, because the vaccinated don't need to be tested. lol


This is because you're comparing total numbers vs numbers per 100k. Germany has a 72% vaccination rate, so if you adjust the numbers to a per 100k basis you will get a ratio of 1:7ish, not quite the 1:20 the french numbers are showing but a vast improvement over 1:2 anyways.

In any case, there's many companies trying to build the pan-sarbecovirus vaccines so I'm sure at some point we'll have an all-variant answer. If until then we have to get a yearly jab then I don't see what the big deal is, personally.


No, France has about the same vaccination level as Germany, you don't need to adjust anything. It has nothing to do with "per 100k".

France has apparently 212 per 1 mil. unvaccinated in intensive care and 11 per 1 mil. vaccinated. In percentages, 95 % of intensive care patients in total would be unvaccinated. That's the information.

In Germany we had 1.200 in intensive care in the past 4 weeks, out of which 850 were unvaccinated. So that's 70 % of intensive care patients. That's a massive difference. To reach France numbers it would need to be more like 7000 vs. 350 (instead of 850 vs. 350), which is a ratio of 1:20. Then you'd get France's 95 %.

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Post by futbol Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:44 am

Nishankly wrote:Unlike your source which is "trust me bro", why don't you go and verify these numbers in hospitals who are reporting it rather than sitting infront of a PC crying about it lol. Go do your own survey if you want to disprove them.


My source is the Robert-Koch-Institut, the official German federal government research institute. What in the hell are you on about?

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Post by futbol Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:05 am

Myesyats wrote:
futbol wrote:Why do you think 3 is enough? Gut feeling? If you boostered now it's useless again until next winter. That's why Pfizer boss said it will be an annual vaccination for years to come.

It is predicted that one of these new variants, maybe omicron already, will be the last one that we need worry about. The mutations are spreading more widely but arent more deadly.

Flu vaccinations are also an annual thing, people just dont do them, some do.

"The CDC recommends annual influenza vaccinations for everyone age 6 months or older."

Not sure why people are acting surprised like vaccines werent in existence before 2020.


The common flu virus mutates vastly so that's why you need a new vaccine every season. With Covid they told us that:

1. It doesn't mutate that easily and that's why vaccinations will work in the first place and 2 times jab = "fully" vaccinated, then you are done. Yet we're soon out of the Greek alphabet and 2 times isn't "fully" anymore. From Saturday onwards in Germany you will need additional tests to enter a restaurant even when double jabbed. Unless you have the 3rd jab, then you are allowed freedom again for a few months.

2. Vaccines can easily be adjusted due to the mRNA technology. Yet people still inject the Alpha vaccine while we've already gone through Delta and Omicron.

VivaStPauli wrote:Also I don't think we've ever proposed that any number of vaccinations are "enough"? Who is this straw man futbol is arguing with?
You keep getting vaccinated every N months until the personal and societal risk is much lower, at which point you probably stop. I don't think it's that bad? IDK what the problem on that front is.


Are you for real? No one has ever said something about "every N months". Majority of people got jabbed to get their lives back, to travel, to enter restaurants, to be allowed into the bus, to work without testing every day and due to fearmongering that they are going to kill their parents/grandparents. If people were told from the beginning that this is gonna be a regular thing because the protection wanes within months and the vaccination doesn't stop transmission and infection, the vaccination rate would be literally about equal with the flu vaccinations at best, maybe about 20 %.

You can already see how fragile the trust in the vaccines is. People in Germany freaking out about Moderna and only wanting BionTech. Let's not even talk about AstraZeneca, which got ousted after 1 famous thrombosis death of a young teacher.

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Post by Warrior Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:46 am

Where i live some people are told their surgery/treatment is getting delayed, the hospitals are fully occupied and mostly by unvaccinated smartasses (the odds are 13x higher)
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Post by El Gunner Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:59 am

you people actually still trust any of these numbers given to you?
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Post by Warrior Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:06 pm

I don't have any proof they aren't true

I trust the government more than Joe Blow on a forum, yes
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Post by El Gunner Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:30 pm

i'm not saying it should be the other way around lol... just there's been so many later-proven-to-be-untrue claims that have come from the government and medical community since this whole thing started that it seems wise to be skeptical
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Post by Warrior Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:37 pm

Tbh i don't really follow covid developments

But when i read most people in hospital are not vaccinated to me it makes sense. The vaccine was meant precisely so you don't die from Covid. That you can still catch a new variant omnicron makes also sense.
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Post by Myesyats Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:43 pm

futbol wrote:With Covid they told us that:

1. It doesn't mutate that easily
and that's why vaccinations will work in the first place and 2 times jab = "fully" vaccinated, then you are done. Yet we're soon out of the Greek alphabet and 2 times isn't "fully" anymore. From Saturday onwards in Germany you will need additional tests to enter a restaurant even when double jabbed. Unless you have the 3rd jab, then you are allowed freedom again for a few months.

2. Vaccines can easily be adjusted due to the mRNA technology. Yet people still inject the Alpha vaccine while we've already gone through Delta and Omicron.

Who told you that? The only voices I heard were that nobody knows whether it will mutate at all, or mutate into deadlier versions or maybe mutate into milder variants. A big question mark, essentially. I've never seen anyone be sure of the fact that it won't mutate easily. New variants will emerge and have been emerging because lots of people still arent vaxed and refused to vax for the past year.


As for the alpha vaccine. Its not as effective for delta etc as for the initial stuff, but still provides protection from severe  cases.

from yesterday: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/11/covid-vaccine-programs-could-end-with-third-dose-israeli-doctor-say

Three vaccine doses are likely to provide sufficient long-term protection against severe Covid-19, a prominent Israeli doctor has said.
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Post by El Gunner Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:31 pm

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:11 pm

futbol wrote:No, France has about the same vaccination level as Germany, you don't need to adjust anything. It has nothing to do with "per 100k".

France has apparently 212 per 1 mil. unvaccinated in intensive care and 11 per 1 mil. vaccinated. In percentages, 95 % of intensive care patients in total would be unvaccinated. That's the information.

In Germany we had 1.200 in intensive care in the past 4 weeks, out of which 850 were unvaccinated. So that's 70 % of intensive care patients. That's a massive difference. To reach France numbers it would need to be more like 7000 vs. 350 (instead of 850 vs. 350), which is a ratio of 1:20. Then you'd get France's 95 %.

Yes you do, you're not comparing like numbers, you're comparing total numbers vs "per 100k of [vaccinated status]".

In Germany you have 850 unvaccinated vs 350 vaccinated total in the ICU
In France you have 212 per unvaccinated 1m in the ICU vs 11 per vaccinated 1m in the ICU

Germany has a vaccination rate of 73% for 2 doses and a population of 83.2m.
So to get to a similar comparison you need to adjust these:
850/(83.2 x 0.27) = 37.83 unvaccinated patients in the ICU per 1m unvaccinated people
350/(83.2 x 0.73) = 5.76 vaccinated patients in the ICU per 1m vaccinated people

If you compare the 2 you get a ratio of 6.6 which is pretty close to my guess. Ie it still gives users a lot of protection

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Post by LeVersacci Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:15 pm

Warrior wrote:Tbh i don't really follow covid developments

But when i read most people in hospital are not vaccinated to me it makes sense. The vaccine was meant precisely so you don't die from Covid. That you can still catch a new variant omnicron makes also sense.
Wrong. The vaccine was meant to prevent infection and transmission. Like Futbol said, that was the promise to the people. Get 2 shots and it's back to normal. No more mask, lockdowns and other social measures to prevent the spread.

The narrative quickly changed to no hospitalization and death with the breakthrough cases.


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Post by rincon Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:51 pm

Warrior wrote:Where i live some people are told their surgery/treatment is getting delayed, the hospitals are fully occupied and mostly by unvaccinated smartasses (the odds are 13x higher)

In line with Belgium, here it is 14x higher (as of mid November at least, last time I read about it).
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Post by Nishankly Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:26 pm

edit: no point


Last edited by Nishankly on Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:01 am

China reports 5 cases of bird flu

https://bnonews.com/index.php/2022/01/china-reports-5-new-cases-of-h5n6-bird-flu/

For fucks sake...
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Post by Nishankly Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:42 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:China reports 5 cases of bird flu

https://bnonews.com/index.php/2022/01/china-reports-5-new-cases-of-h5n6-bird-flu/

For fucks sake...


This happens every year though throughout the world no?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:06 pm

Yeah prob nothing to worry about
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Post by BarcaLearning Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:32 am

Whats the latest on everyones mind? From my latest understanding the Omicron is pretty much unstoppable and it will infect most ppl worldwide. China atm will be key to see what happens, whether the strictest rules in the world can stop it where everywhere else have no, vaccinated or not, n basically the experts saying its just better to just let it slowly infect everyone to achieve real immunity n hence the virus?

Cant wait... still fking stuck in border closures n restrictions 2 yrs in now ffs... Sad
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Post by El Gunner Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:49 pm

are you from China, BarcaLearning?
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Post by LeVersacci Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:54 pm

I’ll have what’s he’s having

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Post by danyjr Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:45 pm

I personally refused to take the mRNA vaccines even though my whole family took them.

Reason is these vaccines were not on trial for long enough, nowhere near how long they should have been. There can be potential side effects to these vaccines that nobody knows of yet.

Therefore I decided to take a vaccine type that was already tried and tested.

To not take the vaccine in my opinion is foolish, with all due respect to anti-vaxxers. Still, they should be given the choice with no catch. Unless they are harming the health of others.
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