Re: The Dream Team: PSG 21/22 Watch

by The Franchise Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:27 pm

In previous runs? Yes, but adding Messi creates defensive issues.

I cant remember the specifics of PSG any more, too much time has passed. But just logically, Gueye, Danilo, Draxler and Di Maria behind Ney and Mbappe (as was in the Bayern game) you can see how that could be defensively solid from a structural point of view. Adding Messi into the mix for one of those midfielders will have a knock on effect.

Yes, the fullbacks may be weak, but even if strong they will have to solve that situation.

Marqinhos will be needed at the back, as I maintain, Ramos is done.

by Casciavit Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:43 pm

sportsczy wrote:Fullbacks were really the issue dani... defense up the middle was fine. Florenzi/Dagba and Kurzawa/Bakker was just awful. It cause all sorts of imbalance issues as the midfielders and CBs had to compensate.

Hakimi and Diallo/Kimpembe will be much better. Not to mention Ramos is a better CB than Kimpembe period. Also, teams could press Gueye, Danilo and Paredes because they were so awful with the ball. Verratti was the only with any ball skills. Believe it or not, Wijnaldum is miles better with the ball than all those guys other than Verratti.

So automatically, they will be better defensively just in terms of defense on the flanks and ability to handle pressure. How much better? We'll see.

There is a chance Marquinhos become a DM and you play Kehrer as a CB. We'll see.

Yeah there's no way Paredes is awful on the ball or lumped with those guys. He's very press resistant. PSG players consider him one of the best technicians at the club.

Lumping his ball skills with Gueye and Danilo GTFO. Laughing

by Casciavit Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:02 pm

I honestly think that's the most factually incorrect statement I've heard on here. How do you watch football for 40-50 years and say that?

Eye test, stats, YouTube comps, and coach/player comments would all disagree with you. I can't believe what I've read. This is as bad as Jorginho Ballon d'or shouts ffs.

by Winter is Coming Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:51 pm

All Poch needs to tell Messi is to up his defensive work rate for 4-5 games in the CL, Ligue 1 is a walk in the park, unless group of death CL group stages should be a breeze and depending on who they face in the KO rounds they got an easy draw he can walk they get a top team he needs to help out. It’s not much to ask considering he wants another CL and Ballon Dor, PSG do have a far superior squad and ambition right now.

by sportsczy Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:02 am

PSG consider Paredes the best deep playing CM they have. He's a poor man's Xabi Alonso. Nothing wrong with him technically. But he's not very good under pressure.

There's a reason they kept playing Marquinhos at DM in big games.

by Hapless_Hans Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:03 am

Hakimi isn't even a full back, really

Wijnaldum will try to mop up as best as he can, I guess but even he can't be everywhere.

by Hapless_Hans Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:05 am

sportsczy wrote:PSG consider Paredes the best deep playing CM they have. He's a poor man's Xabi Alonso. Nothing wrong with him technically. But he's not very good under pressure.

There's a reason they kept playing Marquinhos at DM in big games.

didn't you tell us that was because Tuchel was being an obtuse dumbass?

by Casciavit Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:07 am

It's because he's chatting out of his ass.

Tuchel played Marquinhos as a DM and Paredes as a LCM because he wanted a more physical player in front of defense as well as wanting to field Kimpembe and Thiago Silva as well. He also wanted someone who could drop and form a 3-man backline depending on the situation, and it made more sense having Marquinhos dropping back as a CB than an unathletic DM who used to be a #10. Since Poch has joined Paredes has been PSG's starting DM. If anything Marquinhos started as a DM for his off-the-ball work, not his on-the-ball work.

Him not being good under pressure simply isn't true. Go compare the first leg against Bayern without him and the second leg with him and that's all you need to see. Go watch the game against Barca or the semi-final against RBL and if you tell me with a straight face he isn't good under pressure you must be trolling.

People even make youtube comps of his composure on the ball. That's just his close control under pressure. They even make comps of his line-breaking passes under pressure too.

The stats disagree with you as well.

The Dream Team: PSG 21/22 Watch - Page 2 E7ort3dVcAYPiIB?format=jpg&name=large

The Dream Team: PSG 21/22 Watch - Page 2 E7ort3dVcAYPiIB?format=jpg&name=large

The Dream Team: PSG 21/22 Watch - Page 2 EyEAmTIXEAMwXgm?format=png&name=900x900

Look how progressive he is on the ball and his low amount of turnovers/dispossessions in comparison. The fact is he is one of the most press-resistant DM's in football and just because he doesn't act like a fidget spinner like Verratti doesn't change that. He had fewer turnovers/90 than Verratti in 19/20 and marginally higher in 20/21 (0.98 vs 1.07). Guardiola even highlighted his ability on the ball before the City game. Him being poor under pressure is absolutely false.

by Harmonica Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:11 am

The Franchise wrote:I question it defensively. Against the likes of City, Bayern, Chelsea and co.

Sure, they may look to use a high pressure game. But those strong sides are very press resistant and will find solutions. They will have to spend time without the ball in those games.

One of those front 3 have to sacrifice defensively and even when they do, it will be a tough situation with Messi who will contribute nothing in those moments.

The Dream Team: PSG 21/22 Watch - Page 2 LqaCOMO

by The Franchise Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:19 am

Winter is Coming wrote:All Poch needs to tell Messi is to up his defensive work rate for 4-5 games in the CL, Ligue 1 is a walk in the park, unless group of death CL group stages should be a breeze and depending on who they face in the KO rounds they got an easy draw he can walk they get a top team he needs to help out. It’s not much to ask considering he wants another CL and Ballon Dor, PSG do have a far superior squad and ambition right now.

Agree with this, that's why a pressing system could be possible.

But it is also a matter of a mentality, to use an effective counter press its not going to be enough to just deicide you want to work hard all of a sudden. It has to be a habit, a mentality, consistently.

Will be interesting to see those big games.

by The Franchise Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:22 am

For the record, Paredes is a serious player, in my opinion. I dont understand the arguments Sports is asserting here.

Very few players as good as him doing what he does.

by The Franchise Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:27 am

Harmonica wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I question it defensively. Against the likes of City, Bayern, Chelsea and co.

Sure, they may look to use a high pressure game. But those strong sides are very press resistant and will find solutions. They will have to spend time without the ball in those games.

One of those front 3 have to sacrifice defensively and even when they do, it will be a tough situation with Messi who will contribute nothing in those moments.

Amusing/Frightening you think this negates anything I said.

Messi pressing 5m to lunge into a tackle against the sideline.

Now go watch 98% of all Barca games the last half decade, where the opponent is building from the back and he doesnt even break into a jog to cover a space or close off a passing angle, let alone put the ball carrier under pressure.

by Harmonica Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:50 am

The Franchise wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I question it defensively. Against the likes of City, Bayern, Chelsea and co.

Sure, they may look to use a high pressure game. But those strong sides are very press resistant and will find solutions. They will have to spend time without the ball in those games.

One of those front 3 have to sacrifice defensively and even when they do, it will be a tough situation with Messi who will contribute nothing in those moments.

Amusing/Frightening you think this negates anything I said.

Messi pressing 5m to lunge into a tackle against the sideline.

Now go watch 98% of all Barca games the last half decade, where the opponent is building from the back and he doesnt even break into a jog to cover a space or close off a passing angle, let alone put the ball carrier under pressure.

Oh sorry I thought you said Messi offers nothing defensively and does no pressing.

by The Franchise Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:20 pm

Are you intentionally being so simplistic?

Clearly I was referring to a specific aspect of the game, a more collective aspect, than 1 single moment of Messi doing something defensively.

I actually said "Messi who will contribute nothing in those moments".

The emphasis being those moments, which is not like the one you are showing.

by Doc Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:58 pm

Dani, you're talking about Messi with Harmonica. There is only way that conversation was heading.

by Harmonica Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:15 pm

The Franchise wrote:Are you intentionally being so simplistic?

Clearly I was referring to a specific aspect of the game, a more collective aspect, than 1 single moment of Messi doing something defensively.

I actually said "Messi who will contribute nothing in those moments".

The emphasis being those moments, which is not like the one you are showing.

Simplistic because it hardly calls more effort.

Those moments are trivial, Messi knows when to press and when to not. He does that in big games, and there's no fear that Messi wont do it for PSG. There's no point of pressing when you are leading 2-0 against minnows, you need to start thinking the next game, because there's so many games. I'm saying there's no need, until defense goes into sleep mode and lets couple in. And that was the problem with Barcelona, Messi was needed 90 min against every single minnow because you knew defense would cock it up at some point. And that's mostly because individual mistakes.

Don't be too fixated on this idea of yours, that Messi's pressing is the problem. It's never been a problem for Barcelona, just cause from other problems that Messi needed to fix.

by The Franchise Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:19 pm

Ok buddy. Lets agree to disagree.

by Arquitecto Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:36 pm

by futbol_bill Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:18 pm

There are a couple of articles today in AS! First is Mbappe is unhappy with Messi’s arrival putting him behind both Neymar and Messi. And then there is a 2nd article that says Mbappe will not be released, will have to wait until next summer and the plan is to bring in C. Ronaldo to replace him!

Lol, doubt if there is any substance to either, but they have given me comic relief!

by Casciavit Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:28 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Winter is Coming wrote:All Poch needs to tell Messi is to up his defensive work rate for 4-5 games in the CL, Ligue 1 is a walk in the park, unless group of death CL group stages should be a breeze and depending on who they face in the KO rounds they got an easy draw he can walk they get a top team he needs to help out. It’s not much to ask considering he wants another CL and Ballon Dor, PSG do have a far superior squad and ambition right now.

Agree with this, that's why a pressing system could be possible.

But it is also a matter of a mentality, to use an effective counter press its not going to be enough to just deicide you want to work hard all of a sudden. It has to be a habit, a mentality, consistently.

Will be interesting to see those big games.

The habit thing is amusing. It reminds me of back in 2014 when fat Messi was jogging 5km a match under Tata and the excuse was he was saving himself for the WC. Laughing

The WC came around and even though he played well and tried to up his workrate you could see him struggling bad. If he came into the tournament with the fitness he had in 2015 Argentina probably goes on to win it. So I agree with you when it comes to pressing. It's not an on and off thing. It needs sustained rhythm IMO.

by Winter is Coming Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:25 am

The Franchise wrote:
Winter is Coming wrote:All Poch needs to tell Messi is to up his defensive work rate for 4-5 games in the CL, Ligue 1 is a walk in the park, unless group of death CL group stages should be a breeze and depending on who they face in the KO rounds they got an easy draw he can walk they get a top team he needs to help out. It’s not much to ask considering he wants another CL and Ballon Dor, PSG do have a far superior squad and ambition right now.

Agree with this, that's why a pressing system could be possible.

But it is also a matter of a mentality, to use an effective counter press its not going to be enough to just deicide you want to work hard all of a sudden. It has to be a habit, a mentality, consistently.

Will be interesting to see those big games.

It'll be interesting thats for sure. I'm more interested to see how Poch deals with this even if he can't get Messi to do some defensive work will he be able to get the other two + create a system to cover for Messi lack of workrate in that area? I still feel it'll be a little different compared to us we had actual challengers in La Liga, PSG can rest him more, so he can save his energy for the bigger moments. PSG has already been to a final + semifinal in the last 2 years, they've just strengthen their squad even more + depth, no excuses really.

by Harmonica Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:19 pm

https://www.reddit.com/r/psg/comments/p2ybqg/get_along_guys/

by The Franchise Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:59 pm

Casciavit wrote:

The habit thing is amusing. It reminds me of back in 2014 when fat Messi was jogging 5km a match under Tata and the excuse was he was saving himself for the WC.

The WC came around and even though he played well and tried to up his workrate you could see him struggling bad. If he came into the tournament with the fitness he had in 2015 Argentina probably goes on to win it. So I agree with you when it comes to pressing. It's not an on and off thing. It needs sustained rhythm IMO.

I think anyone who played on a team at a decent level or coached, has experienced something similar like this before.

Sometimes your team just has a "natural" rhythm and automatism about itself. At some point you are not playing your opponent, what they do or don't do is somewhat irrelevant. You play and you know what your team does, you just execute your game and your principles regardless. The fact one week your opponent may be poor and the next your opponent may be strong is irrelevant, you will still attempt to do the same things.

To think you can walk around with no intensity 90% of the time and then suddenly flip a switch and be perfectly automated is hogwash. It never happens. That 2014 example you used about an individual works the same as it would be for a team I suspect.

Though your example is also probably partly a physical aspect too, it all makes sense to me.

PSG could up being very successful, but it wont be because they pissed around the entire Ligue 1 season and CL group stage, then suddenly flip a switch against City, Chelsea, Pool, Bayern, whoever unless all those teams suffer some kind of failure of their own. They will have to find some kind of method which is sustainable. If that means, not using an high intensity, high pressing defensive organisation then so be, that's very possible too.

by The Franchise Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:17 pm

Winter wrote:
It'll be interesting thats for sure. I'm more interested to see how Poch deals with this even if he can't get Messi to do some defensive work will he be able to get the other two + create a system to cover for Messi lack of workrate in that area? I still feel it'll be a little different compared to us we had actual challengers in La Liga, PSG can rest him more, so he can save his energy for the bigger moments. PSG has already been to a final + semifinal in the last 2 years, they've just strengthen their squad even more + depth, no excuses really.

I think the other 2 have shown willingness to at least put in a shift. I have never watched either play in an important game and felt like their effort was poor. They may have not dropped back into their own defensive third, but even if they play as the highest man on the pitch they are active and looking for moments to make a defensive play.

There is no doubt that PSG have less tough matches to play, so I agree with you overall.

I think another advantage they will have compared to us is they will control more games. Now, we may be more of a "possession team" than they are, but when I say control I am talking about how the games actually unfold. We can control certain opponents for 88 minutes and have the ball in their half for 85 of those minutes. But we can also have games where we have 15 minutes of control with the ball in our half for 10 of those minutes. PSG will rarely encounter those moments.

Teams will be very reluctant to go man v man, high press all the way up the field and expose all the space behind for Mbappe to play in. Therefore, they will likely allow PSG to have the ball and play in their half. Because of that I expect PSG to not have to be stuck inside their own half as much as we can be.

I dont know the stats, perhaps we average more ball possession than PSG or not, but when we struggle, we are stuck inside our own half for long periods and have very little ability to use quick transitions. Teams dont need to keep the ball in their own defensive third, because our first line is so easy to break and we offer very little threat in transitions.

PSG will be different I am sure. Lets say, because of that front 3 they wont be that difficult for opponents to get past the 1st line if they were committed to building from deep, I doubt teams will want to spend long periods in the PSG half because of all the space they leave behind so are far more likely to just play in transitions and not send many players forward.

Again, have to wait and see.

by sportsczy Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:48 pm

Lille is the defending Ligue 1 champions as FYI... for those who think it's a walk in the park. Montpellier and Monaco also won Ligue 1 in the past 10 years. Not to mention that PSG clinched the Ligue 1 title before the last 5 games of the seasn... only 3 of the 7 times they've won it in the past 10 years.

Lyon was actually far more dominant in the league back in the 00s.

Just so this really silly narrative stops because, frankly, both Juve and Bayern have had an easier time in the league.

by Valkyrja Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:09 pm

If taking a 35 yo depressed Messi from Barca, after being kicked out by La Liga, is rape, what does Mbappe leaving for a finished Madrid team mean ? What does this make of football’s dream club ? Losing your golden goose after specifically mentioning that he has no reason to leave after registering some super-star retirees like Ramos and Messi ?

BREAKING: PSG are now thinking of selling Kylian Mbappé as the player did not follow up on a 5+1 year optional plus increased salary extension offer. @RMCsport #rmalive

Guess RMC is quiet reliable

by Sponsored content