EURO 2020 Final: England - Italy

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Post by Robespierre Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:02 pm

Well Italy was on disavantage just a time at this Euro : final.

Same thing for 2006.

Even here you tie with the goal of a defender on corner kick  , Bonucci. And he's similar with Materazzi for the hatred that rivals have towards him ( It's deserved for both tbf)

But both played a great tournament after a not positive year ( another analogy . Bonucci was poor in Serie A this year imo. And No-one expected that WC by Materazzi, and not just because Nesta' injury was unpredictable)

England have conceded just 2 goals, both on free kicks , no ?

Well it's relevant. Basically Italy were brillaint for the most of tournament, I don't think England was same, but they were solid. Probably the most solid on the tournament.

I mean if you watch Maguire after this Euro, you'd think that money was correct. But he 's been another type of defender to Manchester.

@Arquitecto wrote:Kane's penalty was an absolute joke. Donnarumma timed and dived perfectly but it just out-swung to the farthest corner of the box and was just so perfect it hurt.


I was surprised about Bernardeschi

At the end he gave his sense to his Europeo .. I'd say Mancini was right on everything . Even for one of his most debatable callings

Bernardeschi had to do just two good things : penalties. He did it against Spain and England. Shot very good.

You 'd not expect he is so cold on it

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Post by Casciavit Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:19 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Casciavit wrote:Why is a 19 year old taking the 5th penalty???


never seen anyone fuck a penalty shootout up as badly as Southgate did

letting 19 year old Saka take the fifth penalty?! Not giving Sancho and Rashford even a minute to play and then just sub them on so they can miss their PKs

well they must be so grateful for this kind of man management Laughing
thanks so much you POS Laughing


You could tell he was going to miss from the moment he stepped up. Some 19 year old who plays for Arsenal no less. Where was Grealish and co??

I could understand bringing Rashford on because he's quite good at penalties. Though I'm not sure how subbing in penalty kick takers right before penalties works out historically. Seems to be the kind of thing that's good in theory rather than practice.
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Post by Casciavit Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:37 pm

Italy were lucky with that set piece goal. No way they score in open play against that 5-4-1. Football's version of a terrorist formation.
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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:43 pm

Wasnt surprised by Bernadeschi personally.

I am well aware of his actual talent as you dont go from what he did in Fiorentina to his first season in Juve to just losing even your first touch but for Italy he generally always been like Fabio Grosso, good for the Azzurri no matter what form.

And for someone in this low-state of confidence both his penalties were really really good. He will be remembered for that.
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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:51 pm

@farfan wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:Pickford was better today in penalties given he is considerably small than Rupeerumma, way less talented and had way less pressure.

Bless him and I hope he recovers.


Felt sorry for him.

He was singled out as the weakest link throughout the tournament but ended up stepping up when it mattered most.


Very much so.

No coincidence that England kept such a stellar defensive record with him between the sticks and he deserves a lot of credit in rising up to the Occassion.
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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:16 pm

Amazing win for Italy, injuries, going behind, away to Englands packed home ground, and winning pens, this has to be one of the best wins of a tournament ever? Talent wise they are all that, but their mentailty, tactics and teamwork was just so good. They forced their way into the win and back into games numerous times. Good mix of old and young players too.

Thought Mancini was crap after his Man C times, who would have thought he was do so well with the NT Razz

Was thinking Pickford is the best GK ever after he saved Jorginho's pen, and then Dumammra saves three in a row to win it Razz

All in all England just werent good enough? I dont know, their midfield completely outplayed, but u would think they could have done better in a game in which they were leading for so long and had such home advantage. I would like to see more Greahlish in the future actually, and less double pivot with a back 5, makes it so defensive and boring.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:29 pm

Pickford will be fine, I'm more concerned about Saka and Sancho as you know damn well the Racist pigs will be out in force saying absolutely detestable things on their socials.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's already happened.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:33 pm

No doubt they'll attack Rashford too but obviously the difference between a 24 year old experiencing abuse and a 19 year old experiencing abuse are two different things and they might not be mentally equipped to deal with it.

Hopefully they're ok.
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Post by CBarca Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:42 pm

Hate finals being decided on PK's. Feels more like a tie than a win for any team, but I give credit and congratulations to Italy and their fans
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Post by Doc Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:41 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Pickford will be fine, I'm more concerned about Saka and Sancho as you know damn well the Racist pigs will be out in force saying absolutely detestable things on their socials.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's already happened.

Oh they already did. The FA had to issue a press release.
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Post by Superstone Mariomintsch Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:45 pm

@Robespierre wrote:Well Italy was on disavantage just a time at this Euro : final.

Same thing for 2006.

Even here you tie with the goal of a defender on corner kick  , Bonucci. And he's similar with Materazzi for the hatred that rivals have towards him ( It's deserved for both tbf)

But both played a great tournament after a not positive year ( another analogy . Bonucci was poor in Serie A this year imo. And  No-one expected that WC by Materazzi, and not just because Nesta' injury was unpredictable)

England have conceded just 2 goals, both on free kicks , no ?

Well it's relevant. Basically Italy were brillaint for the most of tournament, I don't think England was same, but they were solid. Probably the most solid on the tournament.

I mean if you watch Maguire after this Euro, you'd think that money was correct. But he 's been another type of defender to Manchester.

@Arquitecto wrote:Kane's penalty was an absolute joke. Donnarumma timed and dived perfectly but it just out-swung to the farthest corner of the box and was just so perfect it hurt.


I was surprised about Bernardeschi

At the end he gave his sense to his Europeo .. I'd say Mancini was right on everything . Even for one of his most debatable callings

Bernardeschi had to do just two good things : penalties. He did it against Spain and England. Shot very good.

You 'd not expect he is so cold on it

Yes Italy's journey from Semi to winning the final is similar to the one in 2006. England conceded 2 goals from set plays. 1 from the only freekick goal in the tournament, the other from corner.

Bernardeschi was great at his penalties, but I wouldn't say he's like Grosso @Arquitecto He didn't do that well outside of the penalties, still many misplaced passes. Grosso was very reliable.

And yeah, as @El Gunner said Kane took the best penalty. I agreed. It's like Belotti's penalty's against Spain. Simon guessed correctly and simply couldn't save it as it was too hard and too far to the corner. That's the simplest route in penalty imo, hitting it hard to the bottom corner of the side opposite of your strong foot. If you're right footed, hit it hard to bottom left; if you're left footed, hit it hard to bottom right. Even I did score using that penalty for my team in the final, 1 before full time, 1 in penalty shootout, though yeah the levels are worlds apart Laughing
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Post by elitedam Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:15 am

Congrats to all Italy fans!

Having to go watch penalty shootouts can't be good your health. They should be banned for public safety.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:11 am

@Casciavit wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Casciavit wrote:Why is a 19 year old taking the 5th penalty???


never seen anyone fuck a penalty shootout up as badly as Southgate did

letting 19 year old Saka take the fifth penalty?! Not giving Sancho and Rashford even a minute to play and then just sub them on so they can miss their PKs

well they must be so grateful for this kind of man management Laughing
thanks so much you POS Laughing


You could tell he was going to miss from the moment he stepped up. Some 19 year old who plays for Arsenal no less. Where was Grealish and co??

I could understand bringing Rashford on because he's quite good at penalties. Though I'm not sure how subbing in penalty kick takers right before penalties works out historically. Seems to be the kind of thing that's good in theory rather than practice.


Rodri got subbed in in minute 120 and missed too.
These players are not warm, they're not in the game, they're not running in rhythm. It's just bad management. Give them at least 20 minutes or so.
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Post by rincon Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:29 am

My first football memories were WC 98. GOAT tournament as a kid. The next was Euro 2000, great road to the final and then winning it 1-0 vs the champions France only to concede in injury time. I was watching with about 1000 Italians, everyone was already celebrating when France equalised in the 94', ridiculous match that should have been over and then we lost by a golden goal by Trezeguet. Thankfully later the golden goal was abolished because that was the most heartbreaking thing to go through.

Another final in Euro 2012, this time unexpected, and lost humiliatingly to Spain.

Feared to watch a 3rd Euro final and lose, but this team was too solid, too dominant, wonderful work by everyone. They give such a sense of confidence from back to front. Donnarumma is unbelievable, Chiellini and Bonucci are the best defensive partners of the last decade. Almost 400 matches played together. Di Lorenzo and Emerson were very good. Emerson in particularly continues the mysticism of not playing at club level but doing great for Mancini.
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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:32 am

@Arquitecto wrote:Congratulations to Spencer too as Ive witnessed his love for Serie A teams for a decade in the UCL and know how much he wanted this. I still remember celebrating with in GL chat,that Hamsik goal in the UCL group stage where they scored in the final minutes.



I don't remember that, but it sounds like something I would do Laughing

I actually have a soft spot for perennial underdogs like Napoli, and I am sad they couldn't get more success with some of their best teams.

As for my love for Italy, I honestly feel a little sad that it isn't seen as valid in some parts. Especially when I followed the team since the late 90s and have been a huge fan since I started rooting for Milan.
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Post by rincon Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:10 am

@Arquitecto wrote:Wasnt surprised by Bernadeschi personally.

I am well aware of his actual talent as you dont go from what he did in Fiorentina to his first season in Juve to just losing even your first touch but for Italy he generally always been like Fabio Grosso, good for the Azzurri no matter what form.

And for someone in this low-state of confidence both his penalties were really really good. He will be remembered for that.

You weren't surprised by Bernardeschi but were you surprised by Italy then?

Predicted us to lose every match except Spain
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Post by Babun Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:05 am

For me, yesterday's game was decided by management. Mancini was my MOTM overall. Southgate and the advising team behind him lost outright to the Italian one. Southgate came with the intial perfect formation vs Italians but didn't expect them to tinker so soon in mid game and then didn't have any answers for it.
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Post by Robespierre Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:28 am

@Myesyats wrote:my panties is wet

ALL ROADS LEAD TO ROME (imo)


Albano legacy in Poland Molenation



@Lord Spencer wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:Congratulations to Spencer too as Ive witnessed his love for Serie A teams for a decade in the UCL and know how much he wanted this. I still remember celebrating with in GL chat,that Hamsik goal in the UCL group stage where they scored in the final minutes.



I don't remember that, but it sounds like something I would do Laughing

I actually have a soft spot for perennial underdogs like Napoli, and I am sad they couldn't get more success with some of their best teams.

As for my love for Italy, I honestly feel a little sad that it isn't seen as valid in some parts. Especially when I followed the team since the late 90s and have been a huge fan since I started rooting for Milan.


but not, you pure passion for Italy is evident Very Happy
i wait you to go up the open bus driven by me and rincon
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Post by The Franchise Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:38 am

Well deserved, not just the final but the tournament overall. The best team I saw for the majority of games, most complete team and full of big characters.

Congrats to every Italian fan.

As for England, well, they scored early and started fast but even those first 15 minutes, I saw Italy easily reaching the England third. They were comfortable despite being a goal down and did not panic. Of course, its a final, England are a good team and there was difficult movements but I think Itay were relatively in control for the 90 minutes.

Extra time became complicated, more England possession and all of the Italian forwards and mids who entered the pitch, dropped the level and England had some control.

Choosing a 19 year old who isnt a penalty specialist as far as I know, and 2 others who dont take penalties for their clubs (Sancho, Rash) to come on with only 2 minutes of play left was not wise at all. But even during the game, I dont think Southgate got it right.

Mount played 30 minutes more than he should have. Rice finally had a good game and he gets hauled for Henderson. Tripps was doing a good job and his crossing is always a danger, removed and Saka tbh didnt actually do anything other than get dragged down by Chiellini. Its not even clear to me why they changed system during the game. Italy were having more issues with Sterling and Mount overloading Joringinho and the wingbacks keeping the Italian fullbacks from helping.



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Post by Myesyats Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:19 am

@Robespierre wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:my panties is wet

ALL ROADS LEAD TO ROME (imo)


Albano legacy in Poland Molenation

Italian anthem:

They are branches that bend
the sold swords;
Already the eagle of Austria
has lost its feathers.
the blood of Italy
and the Polish blood
Drank with Cossacks
But its heart was burnt.

Polish anthem

March, march, Dombrowski,
To Poland from the Italian land.
Under your command
We shall rejoin the nation


Molenation

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Post by Superstone Mariomintsch Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:40 am

@Thimmy wrote:
@Superstone Mariomintsch wrote:
@Jesp wrote:


so they have spoken about their expeirence from seeing him in manutd and knowing the player he is ... so they are not wrong

Lukaku on a hattrick handed him the match-winning penalty against PSG though. So he does have some pedigree as pressure penalty taker.



I do remember that one, of course. That was a solid penalty. I don't recall him doing the obnoxious stutter in his run up that time (if he did, I stand corrected), and I don't think the pressure of that match is even comparable to the euro final at Wembley. Man United weren't expected to beat PSG, and if I remember correctly, Lukaku had been missing a few penalties previous to that match. It was a decisive penalty, but not one where I believe he'd be in too much trouble, had he missed it. Some Man Utd fans believed Rashford to be the answer to Lukaku's misfiring penalty taking, after that match, but then he missed against some PL team a few matches later.

I know some players tend to score when they do the stutter, but in a high-pressure match like this, I'd interpret that as a sign of nervousness, rather than confidence. You're not doing yourself any favors by prolonging the run up.
Yes, all that you said is correct. Stuttering disrupts the momentum of the run-up and may imbalance the player when kicking the ball. It has to be nervousness. I don't know who started the trend of this stutter run-up.

What you said about Lukaku missing some penalties before and Rashford confidently taking that penalty without as high pressure situation as now is also true. Man Utd were total underdog going to that game, with many youth players having to play. They didn't expect to win, Rashford wouldn't face as much scrutiny as now.

However, it's also relative to the surroundings. Lukaku is actually a good penalty taker. Whilst in this England side, Rashford is amongst the best penalty taker. Kane aside, nobody is a standout penalty taker. Him choosing to do the stutter and not looking at the ball was a wrong decision. However, Southgate not warming him up at all to the game was an even bigger mistake I think. Nonetheless, Rashford's already quite experienced, he'll be fine from this. Saka as the 5th taker though, ugh, that's almost intolerable. Hopefully he'll be okay
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:46 am

@rincon wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:Wasnt surprised by Bernadeschi personally.

I am well aware of his actual talent as you dont go from what he did in Fiorentina to his first season in Juve to just losing even your first touch but for Italy he generally always been like Fabio Grosso, good for the Azzurri no matter what form.

And for someone in this low-state of confidence both his penalties were really really good. He will be remembered for that.

You weren't surprised by Bernardeschi but were you surprised by Italy then?

Predicted us to lose every match except Spain


Theres a difference between being negative about a team and then just a mere prediction to which the latter mine usually are off bar semis and finals.

Ive praised Italy throughout the tournament I was cynical given the front line scores mostly through their own individual efforts rather than combining, then the fullback situation and paired with their lack of testing against real teams, until it was Belgium.

The win surprised me not because of the team but on the circumstances they overcame for it and thats what makes it such a good win.

Individually I rate 90% percent of the players. Rating a teams chances in individual situations is different.

They won convincing each game bar maybe the game I predicted they'll win (Spain) and no one can take that away from them, as a result I already congratulated you in the previous page.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:47 am

@Babun wrote:For me, yesterday's game was decided by management. Mancini was my MOTM overall. Southgate and the advising team behind him lost outright to the Italian one. Southgate came with the intial perfect formation vs Italians but didn't expect them to tinker so soon in mid game and then didn't have any answers for it.


Mancini only really has stumbled vs Spain where Enrique caught him by surprised along with his misfires in extra-time vs the same.

Otherwise v Belgium Italy were considerably better. 2nd half of England his changes were subtle but huge. And I am not just speaking of subs but his position outliers.

For me he is overall the star of the tournament and Im astounded by his evolution as a coach.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:53 am

Final thing lets get the notion that England were favoured by UEFA to win as yes this was the UEFA 2020 England Euros given Wembley was 98% of the venues but the ref last night was perfect and overlooked certain pressures to be fair on both sides.

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Post by Arquitecto Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:01 am

@Arquitecto wrote:My bigger point beyond the ramble that is above is;

How the fuck has Unique not been unbanned to be with us on this final.

#RepriseUnique


And finally finally I take back this statement given he would have went at it at Saka, Sterling and Sancho etc after the penalties, here.


Yes, despite him "having black friends."
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Post by rincon Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:17 am

Kuipers was really impressive. Handled the final perfectly, managed the game well, carded in sensible manners. I don't really care to remember most refs, so I don't know if he is good or bad in general. Perfect final though.
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