EURO 2020 Final: England - Italy

Jesp wrote:

rincon wrote:

Robespierre wrote:CAMPIONI D'EUROPE for 2nd time after 1968 !!!!!!!

CAMPIONI

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay happy serie a fans! lets hug it out .... !
spare us some slack about the whole dolllarumma debacle for sometime in distant future plz ... XD

Jesp wrote:

McLewis wrote:I will never understand how more of the senior players in this English team didn't step up. Stones and Sterling, in particularly, should be taking these.

Saka and Sancho are gonna get torn apart by the media and fans, but they stepped up when more experienced players didn't. That's commendable no matter how bad their penalties.

this is why i can defend english players ...
not english media... they put unnecessary pressure

I mean this is on Southgate as well. Not every teenager is going to rise that occasion. It might be construed as Southgate having a lot of trust in Saka and that's admirable, but that kid is going to need therapy after this.

Congratulations to italia fans

Southgates team selection was wrong he had to continue with their usual 4231
Even without the early goal course of the game would have been similar with italy dominating in the first two thirds but lacking quality to peneterate in final third

The narative would have been different but since the ealy goal it looked justified to retreat and control space
But england had higher quality in attack their performance was unacceptable and southgate is the only one to blame

rincon wrote:

Jesp wrote:

rincon wrote: CAMPIONI

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay happy serie a fans! lets hug it out .... !
spare us some slack about the whole dolllarumma debacle for sometime in distant future plz ... XD

tomorrow we may go back to being who we are but tonight we are all big serie a family !

Great team

A bright future ahead for the younger guys. Legacy cemented for Chiellini and Bonucci

Babun wrote:

Thimmy wrote:Sterling's a senior member at 26, but Rashford's a baby at 3 months away from 24?

He is part of the 11 who brought England to the final. There's a majour psychological effect of togetherness in tough times which makes people in groups stronger. As soon as those two came on, I made a joke they'd miss their penalties and they did.

I already mentioned this, but me and 2 friends of mine who are Man United fans, predicted that he would miss. I don't know what their reasoning behind that prediction was, but mine was that I've noticed that there's a pretty substantial disparity between the quality of his penalty shots when he misses, and when he scores. Purely based on speculation, I suspect he's not someone who's exceptional at managing his nervousness - and that's the most important thing in high-pressure situations like this. Mole is arguing that he was just unlucky, but you might as well argue that hitting the post is just as good as a goal, if that's your standard.

Jesp wrote:

Superstone Mariomintsch wrote:

Jesp wrote:


i guess southgate will be looking at that england didnt even need to play to bring it upto pk they had more arsenal than italy to win. not just in fisrt 11 but also in bench.

they only started coming out it seems at the very end of 90 mins and in ET.

also that sub that gareth made to bring players for pk prep was a bad thing because i think everyone is correct when it comes to more senior more experience players taking pk first than the young ones

Southgate is the opposite of Hjulmand. He's like Pep who's reluctant to sub many players, always have to have a spare sub in the end. Penalty shootout is more about luck though. If Rashford scored there we might have different discussion. Like LVG subbing Krul in 2014. But, putting Saka as the 5th kicker is certainly a terrible decision.

i still dont undertand its like 85 mins and his team is still sitting deep! it was not until the very end of 90 min game that he pushed his team forward...
yea pk is luck, it could have gone either way. but it was clear that italy was the best team in attack and they made more chances had more shots than england

for a quality of england and depth they had .... 6 shots just 2 shots on goal and dragging this team to play upto pk... i dont know ok .. so southgate may be like that i dont understand why his assistant coaches pushed him to play a bit agreesive. surely he worked on second half of ET... they looked more threat.

hjumlmand in his defense doesnt have a depth and quality that southgate had in his disposal. i still thikn though Hjulmand made denmark toothless by not bringing cornelius and skov olsen instead and bringing too many players to put workrate and defense but i understand that he has a lot less to work around with.

england has crazy depth.. i mean their sub has quality to starting 11 and win it ... italy in almost player to player arent the best against england

Yeah we've discussed about it in the other thread. I'm specifically saying about the substition habit. Whilst Hjulmand subbed too many players to early, Southgate is his polar opposite. I think both extremes are not good.

Yeah, what @Babun said is correct. Southgate should've integrate his other players more, not just the main 14 players he used (Saka-Trippier interchanging, Henderson & Grealish first 2 subs). It's not good for them really.

And yeah, that was so bad for Saka. Hopefully he can come back strong from this

McLewis wrote:

Jesp wrote:

McLewis wrote:I will never understand how more of the senior players in this English team didn't step up. Stones and Sterling, in particularly, should be taking these.

Saka and Sancho are gonna get torn apart by the media and fans, but they stepped up when more experienced players didn't. That's commendable no matter how bad their penalties.

this is why i can defend english players ...
not english media... they put unnecessary pressure

I mean this is on Southgate as well. Not every teenager is going to rise that occasion. It might be construed as Southgate having a lot of trust in Saka and that's admirable, but that kid is going to need therapy after this.

i agree ... and i kinda started to understand now why coaches in italy ... and even mancini to extent was defensive to young players ....
my heart sunk seeing Saka like that. that kid has so much reasons to be proud ... he needs praise.

i hope i am not being taken wrongly but ... rashford has played more and has more senior expeience udner the belt.

saka pk i will totally defend. even sancho. rashford its like belotti ... both had poor pk that costed or would have cost their team

Thimmy wrote:

Babun wrote:

Thimmy wrote:Sterling's a senior member at 26, but Rashford's a baby at 3 months away from 24?

He is part of the 11 who brought England to the final. There's a majour psychological effect of togetherness in tough times which makes people in groups stronger. As soon as those two came on, I made a joke they'd miss their penalties and they did.

I already mentioned this, but me and 2 friends of mine who are Man United fans, predicted that he would miss. I don't know what their reasoning behind that prediction was, but mine was that I've noticed that there's a pretty substantial disparity between the quality of his penalty shots when he misses, and when he scores. Purely based on speculation, I suspect he's not someone who's exceptional at managing his nervousness - and that's the most important thing in high-pressure situations like this. Mole is arguing that he was just unlucky, but you might as well argue that hitting the post is just as good as a goal, if that's your standard.

so they have spoken about their expeirence from seeing him in manutd and knowing the player he is ... so they are not wrong

Jesp wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:This Italy win was huge because Italy needed to catch up to Germany who has 3 Euro wins, then France with 2 so now 4 World Cups and 2 Euros looks way way better then just that one Euro in 1968 to which was so far back its irrelevant.

i see this more as a healing after WC shambles by Ventura. also that no more boring players ...
also importantly Italy and i guess england too but everyone needed healing and something to celebrate after 2020...
Italy did it right ... from squad balance (still i wish mancini could have brought even better players) and we know what zaniolo is capable off, they get their passion right they get their patrotism and love for country right ...just look at NT anthem
no one does that better than italy...

Very much so.

After Ventura I saw that Italy would need a rebuilding process of at least a decade to recover from that.


Mancini when helming Italy I was not excited for but by god he has been perfect.


His changes for the second half of today are legendary and never did I fear England as I did in the first after that.

Warrior wrote:Great team

A bright future ahead for the younger guys. Legacy cemented for Chiellini and Bonucci

Good point. Despite their 15 Serie A's won they needed that one big trophy and Cheillini having the time of his life through the tournament and turning into Buffon with hugging basically anyone was the best sight.

Arquitecto wrote:

Jesp wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:This Italy win was huge because Italy needed to catch up to Germany who has 3 Euro wins, then France with 2 so now 4 World Cups and 2 Euros looks way way better then just that one Euro in 1968 to which was so far back its irrelevant.

i see this more as a healing after WC shambles by Ventura. also that no more boring players ...
also importantly Italy and i guess england too but everyone needed healing and something to celebrate after 2020...
Italy did it right ... from squad balance (still i wish mancini could have brought even better players) and we know what zaniolo is capable off, they get their passion right they get their patrotism and love for country right ...just look at NT anthem
no one does that better than italy...

Very much so.

After Ventura I saw that Italy would need a rebuilding process of at least a decade to recover from that.


Mancini when helming Italy I was not excited for but by god he has been perfect.


His changes for the second half of today are legendary and never did I fear England as I did in the first after that.

i slept like crazy totally forgot to set alarm. i was shocked that italy had a 2 min concede lol
to my relief southgate has done a great job for italy by sitting deep XD

yea the whole ventura thing i had zero confident. buffon retiring, crying.... there was more doubt about chelini and bonucci future.

Mancini for sure has made this italy play exciting. there is a good dynamism in this team.
i feared that only after the very late into the game England then only started to being england lol but it was too late

rincon wrote:Started with a -1 goal handicap from minute 2 playing a final as an away team and came back to win it.

Bonucci's goal released so much pressure, before it was the most tense 60 minutes in a long time. The team was playing wonderfully, fully deserved, should have won it in 90 minutes but England was brilliant in defense and Chiesa went off injured.

Love this team. So likeable, so much enthusiasm. Love Spinazzola, love Chiellini, love Bonucci, love Chiesa, love Donnarumma, love Jorginho, and most of all love Mancini.

Seeing Mancini in tears for winning was everything. The man that missed the nazionale as a players and has always expressed his love for it, always trying to get the top job as a manager for years.

Yeah that was a brilliant fight back. Chiesa was simply unstoppable. His injury really hindered Italy there. Losing Spinazzola who's probably the player of the tournament, and then this. Really great that Italy managed to pull through. What Mancini did after that Ventura mess was just incredible.

Anyway when's the last time the home nation won? Platini's France? From what I remember, England, France, and Portugal all lost their final at home. It's bizarrely a disadvantage somehow

Congrats @Robespierre @Rincon and all our Italophiles

special congrats to @Breva

over the course of the tournament, deserved winners

Italy-Belgium was the real final quality wise

Anyway, here's proof I was firmly rooted in the Italia (actually Sardinia) camp even when it was 0-1

Jesp wrote:

Freeza wrote:Really happy with this win. Spent all day cheering on Italy in my Atalanta shirt

maele shirt??? XD
we got something for u guys after Denmark game ^O^ and Denmark has ever reason to be proud.. they did the unexpected!

Of course. Had to get one before he leaves and becomes the most expensive Danish player ever

Thimmy wrote:

Babun wrote:

Thimmy wrote:Sterling's a senior member at 26, but Rashford's a baby at 3 months away from 24?

He is part of the 11 who brought England to the final. There's a majour psychological effect of togetherness in tough times which makes people in groups stronger. As soon as those two came on, I made a joke they'd miss their penalties and they did.

I already mentioned this, but me and 2 friends of mine who are Man United fans, predicted that he would miss. I don't know what their reasoning behind that prediction was, but mine was that I've noticed that there's a pretty substantial disparity between the quality of his penalty shots when he misses, and when he scores. Purely based on speculation, I suspect he's not someone who's exceptional at managing his nervousness - and that's the most important thing in high-pressure situations like this. Mole is arguing that he was just unlucky, but you might as well argue that hitting the post is just as good as a goal, if that's your standard.

His pen was crap, I agree with you. Sancho's war on target but not precise enough. People talk about penalty misses, usually it's 50/50 if the keeper is exceptional and the shot isn't perfect. Maguire had the unstoppable shot.

Jesp wrote:

Thimmy wrote:

Babun wrote:
He is part of the 11 who brought England to the final. There's a majour psychological effect of togetherness in tough times which makes people in groups stronger. As soon as those two came on, I made a joke they'd miss their penalties and they did.

I already mentioned this, but me and 2 friends of mine who are Man United fans, predicted that he would miss. I don't know what their reasoning behind that prediction was, but mine was that I've noticed that there's a pretty substantial disparity between the quality of his penalty shots when he misses, and when he scores. Purely based on speculation, I suspect he's not someone who's exceptional at managing his nervousness - and that's the most important thing in high-pressure situations like this. Mole is arguing that he was just unlucky, but you might as well argue that hitting the post is just as good as a goal, if that's your standard.

so they have spoken about their expeirence from seeing him in manutd and knowing the player he is ...  so they are not wrong

Lukaku on a hattrick handed him the match-winning penalty against PSG though. So he does have some pedigree as pressure penalty taker. Plus, he (and Sancho & Saka) might be consistently very good in the penalty's training. We don't really know what's behind there. Though again, it was extremely poor putting Saka as the 5th taker

About Belotti, I guess he thought if he did the same penalty against Spain (which was simply unsaveable, hard to the left bottom corner), it'd be saved, if he hit not hard or not to the corner enough. Those Switzerland penalty takers spring to mind. That's why he tried different method and it's just worse  

Anyway, Pickford was outstanding really. He also guessed Bonucci's penalty right, just not high enough. How he stayed to wait Jorginho and saved his pen was incredible. All the credit for him and Donnarumma. Though many of the pens were poor. Maguire was just straight up savage though

I agree Jesp.


Above all the players even I credit Mancini as my star of the Euros as it wasn't just some grinding Italian win they genuinely wowed the world and I only saw some missteps v Spain due to Enrique surprising him but otherwise how this Italy embosses Mancini's evolution and balls as a coach is just a great story.

Pure class and culture in him too. Love him.

Look anyone blaming the players for missed penalties dont get how ridiculously good Donnarumma is with penalties.

He is basically the only player in recent memory I expect him to save literally half the penalties he is shot at.

Its not that deep. He is unironically that good at it.

Superstone Mariomintsch wrote:

Jesp wrote:

Thimmy wrote:

I already mentioned this, but me and 2 friends of mine who are Man United fans, predicted that he would miss. I don't know what their reasoning behind that prediction was, but mine was that I've noticed that there's a pretty substantial disparity between the quality of his penalty shots when he misses, and when he scores. Purely based on speculation, I suspect he's not someone who's exceptional at managing his nervousness - and that's the most important thing in high-pressure situations like this. Mole is arguing that he was just unlucky, but you might as well argue that hitting the post is just as good as a goal, if that's your standard.

so they have spoken about their expeirence from seeing him in manutd and knowing the player he is ...  so they are not wrong

Lukaku on a hattrick handed him the match-winning penalty against PSG though. So he does have some pedigree as pressure penalty taker.

I do remember that one, of course. That was a solid penalty. I don't recall him doing the obnoxious stutter in his run up that time (if he did, I stand corrected), and I don't think the pressure of that match is even comparable to the euro final at Wembley. Man United weren't expected to beat PSG, and if I remember correctly, Lukaku had been missing a few penalties previous to that match. It was a decisive penalty, but not one where I believe he'd be in too much trouble, had he missed it. Some Man Utd fans believed Rashford to be the answer to Lukaku's misfiring penalty taking, after that match, but then he missed against some PL team a few matches later.

I know some players tend to score when they do the stutter, but in a high-pressure match like this, I'd interpret that as a sign of nervousness, rather than confidence. You're not doing yourself any favors by prolonging the run up.

I dont agree with the stutters either.

They never last, are cheap and just are to make up for shit penalty technique.

Best penalty takers of all time from Gerrard to Ballack to Lampard never did that bullshit

Casciavit wrote:Why is a 19 year old taking the 5th penalty???

never seen anyone fuck a penalty shootout up as badly as Southgate did

letting 19 year old Saka take the fifth penalty?! Not giving Sancho and Rashford even a minute to play and then just sub them on so they can miss their PKs

well they must be so grateful for this kind of man management
thanks so much you POS

Kane's penalty was an absolute joke. Donnarumma timed and dived perfectly but it just out-swung to the farthest corner of the box and was just so perfect it hurt.

Well Italy was on disavantage just a time at this Euro : final.

Same thing for 2006.

Even here you tie with the goal of a defender on corner kick  , Bonucci. And he's similar with Materazzi for the hatred that rivals have towards him ( It's deserved for both tbf)

But both played a great tournament after a not positive year ( another analogy . Bonucci was poor in Serie A this year imo. And No-one expected that WC by Materazzi, and not just because Nesta' injury was unpredictable)

England have conceded just 2 goals, both on free kicks , no ?

Well it's relevant. Basically Italy were brillaint for the most of tournament, I don't think England was same, but they were solid. Probably the most solid on the tournament.

I mean if you watch Maguire after this Euro, you'd think that money was correct. But he 's been another type of defender to Manchester.

Arquitecto wrote:Kane's penalty was an absolute joke. Donnarumma timed and dived perfectly but it just out-swung to the farthest corner of the box and was just so perfect it hurt.

I was surprised about Bernardeschi

At the end he gave his sense to his Europeo .. I'd say Mancini was right on everything . Even for one of his most debatable callings

Bernardeschi had to do just two good things : penalties. He did it against Spain and England. Shot very good.

You 'd not expect he is so cold on it