The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

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Post by El Gunner Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:58 pm

fair enough Dani. Totally forgot about Trae Young when i made my list. I'll slide him in ahead of Middleton at 16

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Post by El Gunner Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:24 pm



this is good news because it means there's hope for my dream trade actually
this my dream trade for the Warriors:
Wiggins, Wiseman, Paschall, 7 and 14 for Turner and Brogdon
what do you guys think about that trade, because i've seen some Warriors fans that love it and some that question it lol. Brogdon i love for his 3-pt shooting and playmaking abilities. Can create his own shot off the dribble too. Would mean Klay becomes the 3, so i hope he can still defend wings well enough. Turner would fit in seamless into our team, best rim protector in the league, can actually play the 5 with us and not have to be a misfit with Sabonis anymore, and of course can shoot the 3 too.

another trade i heard someone throw around that i also like is Oubre, Wiseman, Paschall and 7 for Siakam. Would mean we keep Wiggins, and between Wiggins and Siakam i'm sure one of them will be able to score and hit enough 3s on any given night to help put us over the top in the playoffs. Plus their combined defense next to Draymond would be immense! If Siakam can return to 2019 form, that would be awesome.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:42 pm

Willie Green announced as our new coach, now to wait for Draft and Free Agency and see if we actually support him with moves that make sense lol.

Because we sure as hell didn't do that with Stan.
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Post by Blue Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:41 pm

@The Franchise wrote:As I said, I cant make any logical argument for those 2 (Jokic and Luka) being better than Giannis. But I still think both are better players.


Defensively is what separates Giannis from Luka and Jokic.

He is without doubt the best player in the game right now, his accomplishments over the past 3 years is unmatched.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:13 am

@El Gunner wrote:fair enough Dani. Totally forgot about Trae Young when i made my list. I'll slide him in ahead of Middleton at 16

Totally forgot him too.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:16 am

@Blue wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:As I said, I cant make any logical argument for those 2 (Jokic and Luka) being better than Giannis. But I still think both are better players.


Defensively is what separates Giannis from Luka and Jokic.

He is without doubt the best player in the game right now, his accomplishments over the past 3 years is unmatched.

Eh. Their offence is another level, they cannot be stopped, no gameplan works, they can shoot it, score inside, score 1v1 and create open looks for others.

Giannis cannot do that. He is obviously the better defensive player than either.

I dont get how you can say he is the best player in the game, sounds like prisoner of the moment stuff. If KD wears a size 16 shoe rather than size 18, calling Giannis better than him sounds like insanity.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:31 am

@El Gunner wrote:
this my dream trade for the Warriors:
Wiggins, Wiseman, Paschall, 7 and 14 for Turner and Brogdon
what do you guys think about that trade, because i've seen some Warriors fans that love it and some that question it lol.

another trade i heard someone throw around that i also like is Oubre, Wiseman, Paschall and 7 for Siakam. Would mean we keep Wiggins, and between Wiggins and Siakam i'm sure one of them will be able to score and hit enough 3s on any given night to help put us over the top in the playoffs. Plus their combined defense next to Draymond would be immense! If Siakam can return to 2019 form, that would be awesome.

Seems like alot to give up. That package isnt miles away from what you could get an all star for. While I like both Turner and Brogdon, I dont think either are that.

But I do agree a 5 man unit of Turner, Green, Klay, Curry and Brog is a pretty strong line up.

Not a fan of Siakam, good player but a bit too predictable in the half court and his confidence seems to come and go too easily. Also to advance in the West, you going to have to come up against Jokic, AD or Ayton for the foreseeable. Not sure Siakham and Green will be enough there.

So I prefer the first one I think.

Is there no trade with involves the 2 picks, Wiggins, Oubre and leaves Wiseman out of it?
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:28 am

you're high on Wiseman? i mean anything is possible, i just think that to get any reasonably good player Wiseman will probably be first on the trade list

i think we can all agree that as of this moment Turner >>> Wiseman... and Brogdon >>> Wiggins. So i added both picks to entice and convince Pacers... if we can somehow convince them and keep one of those picks, even better. I just threw in Paschall for filler lol, he had a promising rookie season but his sophomore season was hella disappointing. I hope we keep Poole for off the bench scoring, he seemed to get some form going at the end of the past season
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:37 am

I am not sure yet, I cant say I am high, but if im the GM, I would be very reluctant to give him up without getting an all star back.

I know it was a long time ago, but remember when Boston got KG? They had to give up 2 picks and a potential all star in 19 year old Big Al.

This seems like a similar deal except your not getting KG back, your getting Turner and Brodgen. 2 good players but....IDK.

I know the Curry, Klay and Green timeline doesnt match his, but what if Wiseman is future Gobert but with better mobility and better offence?

Right now, Turner is better than Wiseman, no doubt about it. But you could be giving up a potential all star for 2 role players, and throwing picks into the mix.

Its a tough one.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:51 am

What about CJ.

Lets say Lillard gets traded and the Blazers reboot.

Wiggins (1 year less on his contract) and 7th for CJ. Who says no?
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:05 am

two really good role players that fit seamlessly into our system though and they boost our offense and defense immediately in just one trade is my thinking. When you already have a core of Steph, Klay and Dray ... two really good players could equal an all-star, or even trump it because remember there's only one basketball out there. I would say Brogdon >>> CJ because Brogdon can play-make and has more variation to his game. Plus he's not that far off from being an all-star level player himself.

This season has made we realise there's no waiting and hoping on younger players, it's far too risky. You need to have a good experienced team to win the Chip. We need to maximise Steph Curry and get him a few more rings after he just showed us he is still arguably the best player in the league this season. And from the talk i've heard from Warriors reporters, it seems Steph and Draymond said more or less the same thing to Warriors FO after our play-in loss.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:17 am

That is true, I agree. If you want to get Curry and co the best shot at a ring, then that trade makes more sense then waiting on Wiseman. Because I doubt that timeline ever works.

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Post by Blue Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:28 am

@The Franchise wrote:
@Blue wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:As I said, I cant make any logical argument for those 2 (Jokic and Luka) being better than Giannis. But I still think both are better players.


Defensively is what separates Giannis from Luka and Jokic.

He is without doubt the best player in the game right now, his accomplishments over the past 3 years is unmatched.

Eh. Their offence is another level, they cannot be stopped, no gameplan works, they can shoot it, score inside, score 1v1 and create open looks for others.

Giannis cannot do that. He is obviously the better defensive player than either.

I dont get how you can say he is the best player in the game, sounds like prisoner of the moment stuff. If KD wears a size 16 shoe rather than size 18, calling Giannis better than him sounds like insanity.


It’s not being prisoner of the moment, like I said his accomplishment over the past 3 years is ridiculous. I don’t know how you can think that. He has been the most valuable player twice, and one of three players to be named MVP and DPOY in the same year. That alone makes a great argument, the Finals MVP just ended the debate.

Giannis is not as offensively skilled, but when you are one of the freakiest athlete to play in the NBA you don’t need to be.

His impact is greater on his team, simply he is the most dominant player right now.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:30 am

He had all the same accomplishments, minus a championship, when they went up against the Nets. Did you say he was better than KD when they were getting their ass kicked in that series?

I doubt you were and never saw you or anyone say that here.

Anyway, your entitled to your view. I dont agree with it, but it's a fair enough view. But why do people insist the debate is "over"?

It really is not. Why is it, whoever's teams win the title, is automatically the best player? Doesnt make no sense to me.

He was the most dominate player in the finals, nearly nobody would argue otherwise. My point isnt that.
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Post by CBarca Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:54 am

Giannis still isn't on KD's level but he's better than everyone else. Maybe not LeBron. I could see KD & LeBron above Giannis and that's it.

As I said in a previous post, Giannis is ascending. We'll see if he's able to replicate next year, but the things he did this post-season were the kinds of things people have been begging of Giannis for a while. He is now a big threat off ball with the amount he's been screening and rolling, he's developed a push shot that he can use from the edge of the paint coming out of the post up. Even his fadeaway and turn around jumpers aren't bad as long as he's not doing them from too far out (still needs to be in/around the paint). The Suns were not successful at limiting Giannis even when he was primarily posting up and that's absolutely massive. OK, the Suns were small, but neither was any other team. The only team that had anything close to success at limiting Giannis were the Nets, who didn't get in his way much, and that's with the refs allowing Griffin to hack Giannis with impunity.

He's one of the best defenders in the league and he showed this season that he's not nearly as easy to gameplan for as before. Nobody could stop him in the postseason. Nobody even got close to stopping him. He will continue to improve. I think by next year we'll be able to confidently say he is the best player in the league, but I'm not quite ready to say he is right now.
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Post by Warrior Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:09 am

Since i follow NBA in 18-19

Giannis
Kawhi
LeBron
Curry
Lillard
Durant
Jokic
Doncic
Young
Tatum

Those are my top 10 players. In NBA rookies and sophomores can be all-star level right away, the power ranking is always changing so i don't think it matters too much what you did in 2017

I leave Embiid, Irving and Harden off my list because those are complicated dudes, health issues are one thing but the shit attitude they display is the big turn-off. I choose anyone in my top 10 over them

Durant is not 6th intrinsically, but when i take everything into account he was injured a lot, sits many games and he's consistently played with all stars. Giannis shooting is not even top 50 and he manages to be dominant almost every match. Versatile and efficient player defensively. There are several elite shooters in the league but nobody abuse the paint like him. He transcends the current era of NBA.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:16 pm

^^sorry to hear you missed out on the Curry years man that shit was different, next level, otherwordly at times. People tend to forget so soon. Currymania was genuinely the biggest pop in recent NBA history after LeBron made "the decision".
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Post by Blue Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:52 pm

@The Franchise wrote:He had all the same accomplishments, minus a championship, when they went up against the Nets. Did you say he was better than KD when they were getting their ass kicked in that series?

I doubt you were and never saw you or anyone say that here.

Anyway, your entitled to your view. I dont agree with it, but it's a fair enough view. But why do people insist the debate is "over"?

It really is not. Why is it, whoever's teams win the title, is automatically the best player? Doesnt make no sense to me.

He was the most dominate player in the finals, nearly nobody would argue otherwise. My point isnt that.


KD is unbelievably talented and on his day unstoppable. For me he lacks the cerebralism some players I rate higher( Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi). I also feel he doesn’t make others around him better like those guys. Based on talent and skills he may be the best.

Still remember how he crumbled and couldn’t finish off the Warriors when up 3-1. I really don’t discuss KD as the best player since then, and joining the warriors soon after.

You can argue who you feel is the best player, but for me Giannis has the best resume for that title.

I am not a Giannis fan or anything, I just call it like it is. There are other players I prefer watching.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:08 am

What do you mean by that? How is Giannis or even Kawhi more cerebral than KD?

I can see an argument for Lebron or Jokic being more of a cerebral player, but not those 2 guys.

I dont get using something which happened 5 years ago to judge how good a player is today. Otherwise I would have Lebron much lower because he couldnt score on JJ Barea back in the Dallas series.

And on that series, KD wasnt his usual elite self (still put up 40, 27 and 29) in those last 3 games, but that L was largely on Westbrook.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:09 am

@CBarca wrote:Giannis still isn't on KD's level but he's better than everyone else. Maybe not LeBron. I could see KD & LeBron above Giannis and that's it.

As I said in a previous post, Giannis is ascending. We'll see if he's able to replicate next year, but the things he did this post-season were the kinds of things people have been begging of Giannis for a while. He is now a big threat off ball with the amount he's been screening and rolling, he's developed a push shot that he can use from the edge of the paint coming out of the post up. Even his fadeaway and turn around jumpers aren't bad as long as he's not doing them from too far out (still needs to be in/around the paint). The Suns were not successful at limiting Giannis even when he was primarily posting up and that's absolutely massive. OK, the Suns were small, but neither was any other team. The only team that had anything close to success at limiting Giannis were the Nets, who didn't get in his way much, and that's with the refs allowing Griffin to hack Giannis with impunity.

He's one of the best defenders in the league and he showed this season that he's not nearly as easy to gameplan for as before. Nobody could stop him in the postseason. Nobody even got close to stopping him. He will continue to improve. I think by next year we'll be able to confidently say he is the best player in the league, but I'm not quite ready to say he is right now.


Good take, I pretty much have the same opinion.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:25 am

@The Franchise wrote:And on that series, KD wasnt his usual elite self (still put up 40, 27 and 29) in those last 3 games, but that L was largely on Westbrook.
nah Steph rattled KD :coffee:



KD got worse over that series... shot 38% and 3 for 11 from 3 in game 5... then shot 32% and 1 for 8 from 3 in game 6... and then he shied away from the moment in game 7 by only taking 19 shots when he took 31 shots in each of the previous two games

@Blue is right in so far that KD hasn't proved he can be a championship player without Steph and legitimately stacked team around him... and that's one of the reasons i have Steph number 1 over him
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Post by The Franchise Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:51 am

Yeah, he had bad shooting %'s in games 6 and 7 (or 5 and 7, I cant remember). Was a bad series overall, like the bad series he had against the Grizzlies back in the day, nearly everyone has bad series by their name. I think my point was, I wouldnt use that to judge the level of player he is today. I was also saying, Westbrook was god awful and while he will never admit it, this was the reason he left to begin with.

I dont even really buy into this notion that you need to prove something by doing x, y and z.

KD could have won the title this year, without one of Kyrie or Harden being available (didnt need both tbh) and I wouldnt have thought of him being any better a player or having to proved anything.

He was the best player on the floor in 2 finals and would have been for a third if he didnt tear his Achilles. Curry, Lebron and Kahwi were on that same floor.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:12 am

Curry made it super easy for him though that's the point. He barely had any bad shooting efficiency nights on the Dubs. It's very easy for you to pull up in LeBron's face and bomb down a 3 if you are in the Warriors system and have Curry's pull and spacing and constantly being doubled teamed.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:20 am

Well yeah, better players, you cant double KD, you cant trap him. That was also why he had those bad series for OKC, you can leave Perkins/Westbrook/Robertson/Sefolosha wide open. Put your smaller, quicker defender on him, so he can only take a couple dribbles and cut him off by leaving the non-shooters open and plugging the gaps. Cant do that on the Warriors.

But, that is only a thing because its KD. If its someone less than that, you dont even bother.

I mean, we all agree, playing with better players is easier. But KD can do what he wants to anyone, there is nothing you can do 1v1 with him.

But as I say, could have easily won this year alone even if Kyrie never came back.
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Post by El Gunner Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:45 am

sure... and Steph could have easily won too in 2019 if Klay didn't get injured because he was heating up in the second half of game 6

i agree KD is different, on a complete level of scoring because of his size and ability. But i'll only put him over Steph if he leads a team to victory over Steph in a series where both teams are reasonably equally matched in talent. Or if Steph drastically drops off in the next few years (which we know won't happen unless serious injury god forbid) and KD still maintains his current level.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:06 am

You mean, they need to directly match up?

I dont quite get that.

So, lets make up a fake scenario for a second.

Lets say Klay comes back at 90% what he was. Green on a title team we know is a better player. You trade Wiseman, Wiggins and a pick for Pascal.

Green, Pascal, Klay, Curry and a 5th guy get knocked out by the Clippers in the Western finals.

Kyrie goes on a meditation retreat and doesnt play in the finals. KD and Harden beat the Clippers in the finals anyway.

Because Curry and KD didnt directly match up, Curry is still the better player in your view?
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