UEFA Champions League Final 2021: Manchester City vs Chelsea

I don't get this argument that Tuchel did bad at PSG. The one major blip was losing to United in the last minute. CL finals are usually really close games that come down to fine margins which was the case against Bayern.

He's clearly a world class coach and I'd be saying the same even if he lost the finals today too.

Well deserved Chelsea! completely looked up to it and didn't stop trying even for one min.

Casciavit wrote:I don't get this argument that Tuchel did bad at PSG. The one major blip was losing to United in the last minute. CL finals are usually really close games that come down to fine margins which was the case against Bayern.

He's clearly a world class coach and I'd be saying the same even if he lost the finals today too.

Sports was quite adamant that he was an awful manager when he was at PSG. I like Tuchel, personally, but I’m not sure if anything he’s achieved before yesterday would’ve warranted a world class description.

Business as usual.

https://servimg.com/view/17358911/3][/url]


To City fans thinking it was finally their day.

Jay29 wrote:I know it's a meme by this point, but of all games to leave out an important player like Fernandinho, to play Gundogan aka one of their biggest goal threats in a holding role, is peak Pep.

Also, starting Sterling with his sorry form? A big risk that failed.

Saying that, Chelsea were excellent. Made all the chances in the opening 20 minutes, deservedly took a lead, shut down City's attacks and remained threatening on the counter. Tuchel has done elite work there since joining.

IIRC, City have struggled vs back fives, haven't they? Because City rely so much on releasing their wide players and cutting back to the mids, if teams ensure those wide players never get 1v1s, and outnumber City's players in the box, they can block one of their main routes to goal. This City especially will struggle in that case because they don't have a top centre forward outside of an old Aguero.

Thinking about it, the one player City could have used tonight? Cancelo. Walker and Zinchenko offer so little going forward. That extra width from the full-backs would have been useful against a back five.

I don't think the issue was personnel as much as it was structural. City played a double pivot of Rodri and Fernandinho against Chelsea in the FA cup and conceded the same exact goal.

What truly hurt them was their pressing which saw them get undone by numerical superiorities. Whenever the Chelsea wingbacks got the ball, City's fullbacks pressed aggressively to win it back but weren't able to. This allowed Mount/Havertz to pick up the ball in the pockets with the Chelsea wingback on the opposite side making a run from deep creating a 4v3 counter attack.

Stones and Dias constantly found themselves in 2v2 situations. Honestly, the best course of action would've been to defend in a back 5 so they take care of the wingback threat with the extra CB. Though that leaves them with one player less up front and Pep would've been crucified had he started with a back 3 in the CL finals.

Offensively, they tried playing in a 334 compared to their usual 3-2-5. Bernardo and Zinchenko were trying to get behind Havertz and Mount, so they could be on the outside of Kante and Jorginho which would've opened up space in the middle for De Bruyne and Foden. Chelsea's wide CB's were aggressive in dealing with that threat winning any loose balls in those areas or making them pass back.

That meant City's back three had the most possession. It turned to U-shape passing because the players at the back charged with progressing the ball were the LCB and RCB which was Dias and Walker and that's not their strengths.

That's why I agree and think he should've subbed in Cancelo. If you bring on Cancelo for Walker you can shift Stones to RCB, Dias to CB, Zinchenko to LCB with Cancelo and Bernardo playing behind Havertz and Mount which hypothetically would have allowed them to progress the ball better. Then again Walker is better defensively and could cope with the counter attacking threat better while City was trying to chase the game.

Ultimately, Chelsea had City's number. They got outclassed. Even if City had started their usual big game 11 the same issues would've existed when they tried pressing. So I guess for Pep it was either adapt and match up with your own back 5 or keep the lineup that got you there.

He made a decision in between which meant he did neither. He kept the 4-3-3 with Foden as a LCM, Gundogan DM, and Sterling as a LW. That meant more individual quality on the ball. That's useful because against a 5 man defense most goals arise from individual quality rather than patterns. However, what I saw was them dribbling into dead ends and constantly losing the ball since he essentially played 6 attacking midfielders.

Maybe starting Jesus as a winger would've been an option. Let him defend like he did against Madrid in 2020, by acting as a RWB who would track Chillwel which would've let City defend in a back 5. But are you seriously going to bench Foden and Mahrez who got you there?

Then when they were chasing the game they lost their best player to injury. De Bruyne is arguably the second best chance creator in the world. The moment he came off I'm sure most of us knew the game was over.

So yeah it was a tactical conundrum. His usual shape contained weaknesses against Chelsea's 343. He tried to adjust the personnel, which backfired because he didn't adjust the shape. But if he adjusted the shape he would've been crucified for overthinking. So instead of sticking to plan A or plan B he went with something in between that didn't work. Tuchel and Chelsea got the better of them and he didn't know how to cope. It was a deserved loss TBH.

El Gunner wrote:

The last 7 teams to make their debut in a UCL Final have all lost

: 2000, Valencia
: 2002, B. Leverkusen
: 2004, Monaco
: 2006, Arsenal
: 2008, Chelsea
: 2019, Spurs
: 2020, PSG
2021, Man City pic.twitter.com/wYINwhy65d

— ESPN FC (@ESPNFC) May 29, 2021

make that 8 now

But not Dortmund 1997 against Juventus eheheheheheheh

BarcaLearning wrote:Not all coaches are suitable for all clubs I think. As Hans said PSG just was a totally different team to Chelsea, big start attacking players, with no where near as good defenders. Prior to PSG he did ok with Dortmund, but I dont think it was anything spectacular. I still have no idea Its just a case with the right manager at the right club at the right time perhaps

What Tuchel did at Dortmund was absolutely spectacular

Hapless_Hans wrote:

BarcaLearning wrote:Not all coaches are suitable for all clubs I think. As Hans said PSG just was a totally different team to Chelsea, big start attacking players, with no where near as good defenders. Prior to PSG he did ok with Dortmund, but I dont think it was anything spectacular. I still have no idea Its just a case with the right manager at the right club at the right time perhaps

What Tuchel did at Dortmund was absolutely spectacular

Can u pls explain Hans? I didnt follow them that closely, but they had the players, and results werent that much different to the managers b4 and after him I though?

Cant help but feel Pep got this wrong and because of the success Chelsea have had against City, plus Tuchel's smarts, Pep changed a formula which was working.

I think generally, as the stronger team with more talent you should play "your" way and have the opponent show you they can stop you by their adjustments. If they show you that, then you bring in your changes mid game, which City have the bench options for. Instead he made changes which I just dont think had the impact he imagined.

I think it starts with Cancelo over Zinchenko.

Playing Zinchenko as an 8 of that midfield diamond, Cancelo can do that very same role with a superior variety of passing and defensive intensity. Seemed like a straight up who do you like better choice and I like Cancelo far more.

Gündoğan as a 6 kills him. He is so good with press resistance I understand the selection but I think he is so strong arriving into the box, forcing him to sit in front of the backline is a waste. As soon as Fernandinho came on, he almost scored immediately and I just felt like that was the way to start the game.

Sterling was never going to turn around his recent play and while he holds the width and offers the speed behind, thus allowing space in the center, once James started getting physical with him it was pretty much the end of Sterling. Foden to me should have been deployed on that left, Mahrez on the right and allow Cancelo, KDB, Bernando, Gündoğan to use the middle with Rodri/Fernandinho at the 6.

But credit to Chelsea, with a better striker than Werner, they win this game 2 or 3 nil. The entire back line was great, Chilwell who has never impressed me up untill now, really did a job on Mahrez and Rudiger was tremendous with his blocks and aggresive proactive defenders. Kante is Kante, nothing new there.

CL football is weird. You can fuck around for 3/4 of the season and then somehow win it all just like that?

Get some lucky wins, a favourable draw, play the game of your life once or twice and all of a sudden you're the best team in Europe and had a better season than the team that finished 50 points ahead of you in the league?

Naaah. Pep was right, winning the league is a bigger accomplishment than winning the CL.

I wouldnt say bigger.

I would say a bigger indicator of consistency and quality over the longest period of time. Depends what league your in also. For many teams is much easier to win the league than the CL, for some leagues its the reverse, it depends.

To win the CL, there are more things which are outside of your control with bigger consequences if things go wrong. You cannot mess up and hope to recover later on, especially once you entire the KO stages.

Katy Perry wrote:CL football is weird. You can fuck around for 3/4 of the season and then somehow win it all just like that?

Get some lucky wins, a favourable draw, play the game of your life once or twice and all of a sudden you're the best team in Europe and had a better season than the team that finished 50 points ahead of you in the league?

Naaah. Pep was right, winning the league is a bigger accomplishment than winning the CL.

Yeah, which is the reason why Mancini's Inter is held in higher regard than Ancelotti's Milan. Oh wait, that's not how things work at all.