Perez' vision of a perfect football world

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Post by futbol_bill Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:42 pm

You’re assuming they can’t come up with a changed proposal that will address the concerns. As I said a long time ago, the whole concept was poorly presented and explained. The super league proposed by UEFA is an indication, there is an overall interest to form something different.

I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the idea.

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Post by sportsczy Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:00 pm

It worth dismissing and never thnking about again. The basic premise is a non-starter.

It's about as c-untish a thing as one could imagine. Florentino and Real Madird can fuck off.
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Post by futbol_bill Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:50 pm

Why then is Uefa still working on a revised CL. It’s the same thing. It’s going to happen one way or another. May not be called super league.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:36 pm

The revised CL was a project from before the super league was even a thing. In fact, the reason teams like Bayern said no is that they were waiting to see how much better the revised CL would be.

Not to mention that the revised CL is also a disgrace.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:14 am

The UEFA proposal was a result of years of the so called Super Teams asking for changes. The whole super league was IMO a power play to force something more from UEFA including how the revenue is distributed, as the big clubs minus Bayern and PSG weren’t happy with how the proposal was progressing or not. I still believe there is a desire for change and that a negotiated solution can be achieved that all can live with whether it is under the UEFA umbrella or not is not material.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:17 am

Yes agreed, but the superleague was more effective as a threat than a counter proposal. Now that it has failed miserably and spectacularly the big clubs have less leverage than they had before.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:05 pm

They did before this last court ruling. Now Uefa can’t punish them in any way!
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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:34 pm

Super league project can be thrown in the bin

Last i check it was not cancelled because UEFA would punish the clubs. It was cancelled because 12 clubs listened to their fans and said FUCK THAT

So now they would go back at it. 3 months later because UEFA is powerless which they knew already. Doubt so. Perez is a dreamer who lost his credibility
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Post by halamadrid2 Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:10 pm

None of those clubs have officially withdrawn from the ESL
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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:37 pm

They backed down it's sufficient. The project has collapsed because of this

What Perez gonna do ? Have a little power trip and force them to integrate Super League ? Curious to see how this will turn out

If they come back with a new formula it will be different than what they propose in april. Which is wait and see. But the original Super League project is dead, muerte
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:27 pm

I believe you are wee bit confused. The super league is not necessarily the ESL. What has been discussed for years within the umbrella of UEFA in the CL changes is the same thing.

Bottom line is the big clubs that make UEFA and European futbol exist have been demanding changes for years and UEFA was is trying to satisfy these interest.

I do agree the presented ESL proposal is dead and was poorly formulated and even worse presentation. The other clubs only left because of the fan reaction and UEFA seeking to punish. Now that the courts have made UEFA back down, who knows what those clubs will do.  The demand for changes is still there and as the joint press release said, they are going to work on revisions hoping to satisfy all interest. The only question is whether or not, UEFA will be part of the revisions or not. and the ESL is not just Perez nor the heads of the three clubs. There still are discussions with the clubs that publicly backed away.
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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:54 pm

Because you believe Super League did not work out because clubs feared UEFA. It is not the case. They never cared what UEFA thinks... the proof is Agnelli backstabbed his bud Ceferin. Lying to him until the very last minute. So clearly he was not afraid of his punishments

Since UEFA lost in court, it means our clubs can participate in Champions League. That's the only thing it changes

Maybe you think Perez is the godfather, he pulls strings and all that, and with justice on his side he will get what he wants. Classic Madrid fanboyism. But his project was ridiculous and he looked senile defending it in april. Big drop of credibility. And Real-Barca-Juve must again convince the 12 clubs that left to come back and deal with another backlash by their fans. Good luck with that.

UEFA might reform their Champions League as it happened several times. But those will be minor change don't expect the "bigger" clubs to get all the money and all the exposure. Just because the courts authorize them to push another failed coup.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:11 pm

You obviously didn’t read the entire court ruling nor heard or read the joint statement! And calling a 74 year a fanBOY!  :coffee:
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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:31 pm

Wait you are 74 ?!?
So you actually saw the 5 CL run in the 50s :bow: you are an OG fanboy, respect


What i read from the ruling: terminate disciplinary proceedings + review UEFA monopolistic position in european football

Am i missing something ? Because the clubs who started Super League already dismissed UEFA's monopoly. They knew in advance they would win in court and it still did not work out. Instead 9/12 clubs decided to respect their fans.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:58 pm

@Warrior wrote:Wait you are 74 ?!?
So you actually saw the 5 CL run in the 50s :bow: you are an OG fanboy, respect


What i read from the ruling: terminate disciplinary proceedings + review UEFA monopolistic position in european football

Am i missing something ? Because the clubs who started Super League already dismissed UEFA's monopoly. They knew in advance they would win in court and it still did not work out. Instead 9/12 clubs decided to respect their fans.


I am indeed 74, but no I didn’t see the 5 championships, as I was a kid then and we didn’t have TV. But I did hear most of them and certainly saw summaries in the papers.

You are missing part of it. They have to return the financial penalties they imposed on the 9 clubs. And you still haven’t heard the joint statement.

There is no reason now why the 9 clubs won’t discuss alterations to the proposal trying to address fans concerns. The concept wasn’t to compete or make it difficult for national leagues, nor was it to be a strictly closed elite group. Simply put they want an improved CL with more games of best against best and they want a better cut of the revenue. It may take another presidential change in UEFA, but I feel it is in UEFA’s best interest to try to negotiate a deal.


You and others keep saying these clubs don’t have a strong negotiating strength, however I think it’s the opposite. Keep in mind these ‘super league’ discussions have been going on for almost 20 years now. It’s not 3 clubs, it is at least 12. And it is these 12-16 teams that generate the revenue that UEFA takes in.

They obviously made several miscalculations plus they rushed it a bit because of covid financial complications, but they will learn from their mistakes. I’m not expecting anything to happen in short term, but I do indeed expect to see some concept of a revised Super Club Championship League sometime in the future.
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Post by titosantill Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:33 pm

we are still talking super league? that ended before it even started. there are loads of structural complications; who governs it? u cant have the clubs police themselves. the strength of the champions league is it is intertwined with domestic competitions; do well in your league get a champions league spot. even 8 years ago nobody wants to keep seeing real barca everyday, it loses its appeal

fact that a couple multimillionaires just sat in a room, never got input from the players, coaches or even fans about this and just decided they will dictate what the fans want is ludicrous. on the subject of uefa, the competition isnt the issue, the players are. the biggest change they did which was very positive, was eliminating the second group stage. rule/competition changes isnt the issue with football. there just seem to be less star names or talent out there.....the esl isnt the solution to that. i'd rather florentino forget about that and focus solely on real madrid matters
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:00 pm

@futbol_bill it failed in the eyes of the fans, even if uefa can't do anything to these clubs it was a PR nightmare
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Post by Warrior Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:30 pm

I'm quite sure i replied to Bill last night... anyways

What you wrote makes sense don't get me wrong. They will negociate something to satisfy bigger clubs because UEFA is also driven by money. It's in everyone's best interest

I just think you overestimate the power of negociation of the bigger clubs. Precisely because they had one chance to convince ESL was a great solution and they blew it for a ton of reasons. They face too much adversity.

So there is a limit to what bigger club demands. They cannot threaten to leave anymore. The changes will happen within Champions League, a mere format reform. Which is good news because the narrative that ESL will save football is a lie by Perez and his deluded puppet Andrea Agnelli. More so it destroys football as we know it.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:09 pm

Nobody believes the narrative that ESL will save football.

Not even Bill (I hope not).

Agnelli is a trust fund baby who builds his moves around lining his pockets and Perez is just another version of that.

It was a poorly marketed spiel and never will work.

Convince me otherwise.
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:52 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:Nobody believes the narrative that ESL will save football.

Not even Bill (I hope not).

Agnelli is a trust fund baby who builds his moves around lining his pockets and Perez is just another version of that.

It was a poorly marketed spiel and never will work.

Convince me otherwise.


I agree Arq. The point I’m trying (poorly) to make is the concept of more games of best against best will eventually happen. The ESL wasn’t just thought up by a couple of millionaires overnight. It has been 20 years of discussions with 12 to 16 teams sometimes including UEFA. The UEFA CL change proposal is just one iteration or response to these discussions and the ESL was another. Obviously the ESL was a bust! But I fully expect those 20 years discussions and proposals to continue.
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Post by Valkyrja Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:40 pm

Don't worry guys, Mr. Al Khelaifi is working with UEFA to save football, probably together with other honest football investors and passionate viewers, such as Mr. Sheikh Mansour and Mr. Roman Abramovich
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:28 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:Nobody believes the narrative that ESL will save football.

Not even Bill (I hope not).

Agnelli is a trust fund baby who builds his moves around lining his pockets and Perez is just another version of that.

It was a poorly marketed spiel and never will work.

Convince me otherwise.


I agree Arq. The point I’m trying (poorly) to make is the concept of more games of best against best will eventually happen. The ESL wasn’t just thought up by a couple of millionaires overnight. It has been 20 years of discussions with 12 to 16 teams sometimes including UEFA. The UEFA CL change proposal is just one iteration or response to these discussions and the ESL was another. Obviously the ESL was a bust! But I fully expect those 20 years discussions and proposals to continue.



As an enthusiast and advocate of capitalism here I fully admit are one of the downfalls of it.

Greed will lead into such paths.

These owners have the right to do what they see fit as football and smaller teams are not their responsibility.

But lying to the public about a false promise just spells out how out of touch they are.

Financially Ive nowhere near as much as experience as you so your points in previous pages did make sense though.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:03 pm

The issue is that sports teams that bear the name of a city or country, even if private, fall under the umbrella of "serving the public good" and benefiting from the civic brand.  You want to use the name "Madrid", fine.  But by doing so, you are now a quasi public-private entity and fall under the jurisdiction of the various levels of politics.

So football clubs, although privately owned, have more restrictions than a purely private entity if that makes sense. You would need a contract, if it's even legally enforceable, to define the parameters of the relationship. Otherwise, it's subject to common law.

It's very niche and has its own category.
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:54 pm

You claiming legal expertise now Sports? It doesn’t happen in European futbol, but these “Sports” teams in North America regularly change cities when the private owners don’t get what they want!

I will acknowledge that neither Madrid nor Barcelona will move as they are not private ownership, they are actually non profit organizations and have a whole set of rules that are legally binding. These rules are not applicable to private ownership. The owners of these two clubs are actually socios (I being one). The socios can actually push the president out if they are indeed upset with president as was the case this year with Barcelona. So far, there hasn’t been the negative attitude amongst socios towards Perez which is a totally different than what you and others on GL are feeling.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:43 pm

If you change a city, you don't keep the city's name... i.e. the Oakland Raiders became the Las Vegas Raiders.  Once you give up the name, you have no binding agreement and you're no longer domiciled there, there's nothing. Besides, the sports leagues in the US sign franchise agreements with cities. Nothing is left to chance legally. But they can't use a city's name once they move.

For example, the Oakland Raiders could not move to Las Vegas and legally retain the word "Oakland" in their name without the city's approval.

Heck, the Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore many years back... and the city sued and kept the whole name "Cleveland Browns".  The franchise had to rename itself the Baltimore Ravens as a result.  When a new franchise was brought to Cleveland, the city allowed them to use the name Cleveland Browns.
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