Re: The Racism Thread

[El Gunner]

racism is always complicated... black people admire the wealth of white people and white people admire the soul of black people.

anyway, i also don't see it as segregation, it's just re-investing into your own community.

[Myesyats]

She believes that Black people should have preference to open Black-owned businesses in Black communities.

Wait, isnt that segregation basically?

As for the graph, I dont think people have become more racist towards asians due to covid,  the pandemic just gave a reason to many to be more public about it.

Segregation is forced separation, often from an organized authoritative institution. Like a government.

What my relative advocates for is voluntary separation by the community itself. It's closer to isolation than segregation.

That sounds very counter-intuitive. How would you impose that or make it happen? You would need governmental intervention to enforce it aswell, basically redlining where some people can or cant set up business.

[BarrileteCosmico]

@eg these are people that are in their community though, just the wrong skin color. It's not segregation but it is discrimination, however well meaning.

@mclewis I'm reminded of a couple videos I've watched of Asians getting attacked by black people in nyc. It makes a little more sense with that perspective.

[BarcaLearning]

So this hits close to home.

I have a relative that is extremely xenophobic, especially towards Asians, particularly East Asians. She only revealed this to me just a couple of weeks ago. I took this opportunity to deep dive into why she is this way.

It stems from the perceived ease in which East Asian immigrants enter poor Black neighborhoods, open businesses (like beauty shops) and then enrich themselves while treating the community, their customers, badly and with prejudice. She believes that Black people should have preference to open Black-owned businesses in Black communities.

I say "perceived" because the reality is that these businesses are not often flush to the point where these Asian families are able to live significantly better than their Black customers. My relative firmly believes that immigrants who come here somehow get to skip steps that Black people are forced to complete in order to start a business, secure loans, and make money. She believes the incentive of simply being an immigrant gives them an unfair advantage over native born descendants of slaves. I don't believe that personally though I will say that it is significantly harder for Black businesses to secure loans than it is for White businesses. I'm not sure what those numbers look like compared to Asian businesses though.

Given there are a lot more Black folks who think this way along with typical white racism, that graph is not at all far fetched to me.

Just curious McLewis, do u know if these immigrants bring their own money to invest to open these businesses or they take local loans n get preferred treatment over the black community?

[McLewis]

racism is always complicated... black people admire the wealth of white people and white people admire the soul of black people.

anyway, i also don't see it as segregation, it's just re-investing into your own community.

I don't know if admire is the right word. There's a lot of bitterness, that's for sure.

Agreed on re-investing as well. Beneath it all, Black people just want a chance to build communities on their own, independent of others. When they tried doing this a century ago, White people literally killed them and destroyed those efforts and have since built up a system designed to keep Black people from reaping the same benefits from it as everyone else.

She believes that Black people should have preference to open Black-owned businesses in Black communities.

Wait, isnt that segregation basically?

As for the graph, I dont think people have become more racist towards asians due to covid,  the pandemic just gave a reason to many to be more public about it.

Segregation is forced separation, often from an organized authoritative institution. Like a government.

What my relative advocates for is voluntary separation by the community itself. It's closer to isolation than segregation.

That sounds very counter-intuitive. How would you impose that or make it happen? You would need governmental intervention to enforce it aswell, basically redlining where some people can or cant set up business.

The logical way to impose it would be to just not patronize those businesses. Hard to do in poor, working class neighborhoods where it would take significant time and effort to go out of one's way to patronize another business that may not be as geographically close as the Asian owned one right down the street. Given how inflation is rising, wages are stagnating, and other economic factors are now, it's a no brainer unfortunately.

@eg these are people that are in their community though, just the wrong skin color. It's not segregation but it is discrimination, however well meaning.

@mclewis I'm reminded of a couple videos I've watched of Asians getting attacked by black people in nyc. It makes a little more sense with that perspective.

Agreed. My relative voiced what wouldn't surprise me as the motive for these attacks. The randomness of it is jarring to me though. I would not be surprised if mental illness is playing a part as well.

So this hits close to home.

I have a relative that is extremely xenophobic, especially towards Asians, particularly East Asians. She only revealed this to me just a couple of weeks ago. I took this opportunity to deep dive into why she is this way.

It stems from the perceived ease in which East Asian immigrants enter poor Black neighborhoods, open businesses (like beauty shops) and then enrich themselves while treating the community, their customers, badly and with prejudice. She believes that Black people should have preference to open Black-owned businesses in Black communities.

I say "perceived" because the reality is that these businesses are not often flush to the point where these Asian families are able to live significantly better than their Black customers. My relative firmly believes that immigrants who come here somehow get to skip steps that Black people are forced to complete in order to start a business, secure loans, and make money. She believes the incentive of simply being an immigrant gives them an unfair advantage over native born descendants of slaves. I don't believe that personally though I will say that it is significantly harder for Black businesses to secure loans than it is for White businesses. I'm not sure what those numbers look like compared to Asian businesses though.

Given there are a lot more Black folks who think this way along with typical white racism, that graph is not at all far fetched to me.

Just curious McLewis, do u know if these immigrants bring their own money to invest to open these businesses or they take local loans n get preferred treatment over the black community?

I don't honestly. I have to believe it depends on where they are coming from. The majority often come here with very little to nothing. That's what makes the "American Dream" so allurring. I have done zero research on this, but one thing I will be interested in finding out is the existence of the ease of access to funds immigrants get to open businesses compared to those born here. When I have more time, I will dig into this a bit.

[McLewis]

I briefly debated posting this in the Gun violence thread, but the explicit racist nature of this warranted me posting it here.

NEW: A mass shooter in Buffalo, NY who killed at least 10 people had posted a manifesto online espousing the White Replacement Theory, per @BNONews.

White Replacement Theory has been long promoted and championed by Tucker Carlson on Fox News.pic.twitter.com/LaO82WpzfH

— Brian Tyler Cohen (@briantylercohen) May 14, 2022

Quick facts:

- Shooter is 18 years old
- Of the 13 reported casualties, 10 are Black.
- A security guard in the store tried to stop him by shooting him, but he was wearing a bulletproof vest. He killed that security guard.
- Wrote a manifesto declaring that he was radicalized on 4Chan
- Manifesto also mentioned other infamous white superemecist mass murders that he wanted emulate, with Dylan Roof being the most prominent.
- He drove 4 hours to the Buffalo, which has a large Black population and then went to the Blackest part of that city to commit this massacre.

This is what happens when the likes of Tucker Carlson lionize the likes of Kyle Rittenhouse. This is what happens when politicians like Lauren Boebert are posting Christmas photos of their young sons holding guns in front of the Christmas tree. These kids are more likely to become this guy.

It's also not lost on me that like so many other white mass murderers, police managed to take this one alive and yet:

Payton Gendron: murders 10—calmly arrested

Nikolas Cruz: murders 17—calmly arrested

Dylan Roof: murders 9—calmly arrested

Patrick Crusius: murders 23—calmly arrested

Tamir Rice, Aiyana Jones, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Eric Garner—all unarmed & innocent—killed immediately pic.twitter.com/rSvlXdGnUb

— Qasim Rashid, Esq. (@QasimRashid) May 15, 2022

[BarrileteCosmico]

Horrible. Can't even imagine.

I'm sure his ideas are common place, replacement theory has been getting more and more popular lately and politicians and media look to profit from it. It's very depressing.

[Myesyats]

Conservative media idolize these loons and further promote theories like this because they thrive on it. This way they can push their civil war agenda and other race baiting techniques. It's how they do politics, and they know what to feed their base with.

[M99]

Is this the type of free speech Elon is going to bring to Twitter?

[McLewis]

Yes. That account is already on Twitter. Very prominent.

Also more info coming out - The shooter was known to law enforcement. He threatened to shoot up his school and was put into some sort of mental health treatment facility. It obviously didn't take. His manifesto mentions his affinity for guns so obtaining one was apparently quite easy, despite it being New York state.

I personally don't believe federal or state background checks are enough. There should be psych exams as well, at both state and federal level. I don't want to ban all guns, but I do want to make it harder to obtain them. That's the way it should be in modern society.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Personally I don't understand how every black person is not walking around armed in this country. Impossible to feel safe.

[McLewis]

Well the stats do show that there's been a significant uptick in Black gun ownership over the last few years.

Even I, who abhors the use of guns, took my first trip to a gun range last year while on vacation in Las Vegas. I'm not gonna lie. It was pretty fun and I found out that I'm a pretty good shot.

I can't see myself having one or using one in a real situation though, but I'm getting there. My best defense has always been to do well enough professionally to be able to live somewhere that would not require me to need to have a gun in my home. So far, that strategy has worked well.

There's a nagging feeling that the more Black gun ownership goes up, the more violent police encounters will become. Police already kill us when they assumed we're armed, even if we're not. Having more of us armed in those conflicts could seal their justification for killing us with more certainty.

Either way, the power dynamic between police and Black people won't shift much. This is where I'm stuck thinking about right now.

[Myesyats]

Personally I don't understand how every black person is not walking around armed in this country. Impossible to feel safe.

I feel like this would make things so much worse overall

More guns = more deaths, and probably even more police brutality on top.

The solution is simple:
- take away all assault rifles (No need for AR-15s for self-defense because it's not a defensive weapon)
- allow pistols/handguns but only after training and under a license.


It is doable if there is political will for it, but it seems there isnt.

[FennecFox7]

Psych exams are a great idea mclewis. Never thought of that.

I’m a big proponent of the second amendment but when will enough be enough? I’m unsure why so many libertarians and republicans are against a psych eval and restricting access to insane people

Horrible tragedy. I’m from Syracuse which is not far at all. And I have childhood friends in Buffalo. Just wow

[FennecFox7]

There is a big black market for guns mye. We need to take care of that as well

[McLewis]

Psych exams are a great idea mclewis. Never thought of that.

I’m a big proponent of the second amendment but when will enough be enough? I’m unsure why so many libertarians and republicans are against a psych eval and restricting access to insane people

Horrible tragedy. I’m from Syracuse which is not far at all. And I have childhood friends in Buffalo. Just wow

My read on this is they oppose psych exams largely due to the fact that psychologists answer to a board, which functions as a government institution, at least at the state level. So, to them, the gov't would be deciding who gets a gun and who doesn't. That's a non-starter for them naturally, considering the 2nd amendmet was created to protect them from that very notion. It's misinformation of course, but Fox News and the NRA have done their work well.

[McLewis]

Personally I don't understand how every black person is not walking around armed in this country. Impossible to feel safe.

I feel like this would make things so much worse overall

More guns = more deaths, and probably even more police brutality on top.

The solution is simple:
- take away all assault rifles (No need for AR-15s for self-defense because it's not a defensive weapon)
- allow pistols/handguns but only after training and under a license.


It is doable if there is political will for it, but it seems there isnt.

Pistols and handguns have been modified to go from semi-auto to auto via tools like bump stocks.

Someone trained on how to use a firearm doesn't necessarily make them psychologically or mentally stable enough to use one. Licenses exist primarily to protect sellers and manufacturers from liability.

Frankly, this has to be attacked at the root and that starts with psych exams.

[BarrileteCosmico]

@myesyats you're wrong, it's not possible. This is a country that watched an entire elementary school get gunned down and did NOTHING.

I'm well aware that it would make everything worse at a macro level, but when there's people literally gunning you down for existing what else are you to do?

Let's be real though, if every black man purchased a gun tomorrow the GOP would pass gun control in a heartbeat

[McLewis]

Yeah we saw that play out in the 70s in California with the Black Panthers. And that was super liberal California.

What I have come to understand far too late is that the 2nd amendment was never meant for Black people. It was always meant only for White people.

I mean look at how the NRA didn't defend Philando Castile, a legal gun owner, who was shot to death in his car while going to show a cop his gun permit.

Look at how the NRA didn't defend Jemel Roberson, a nightclub bouncer and legal gun owner, who was killed by police as he chased an actual criminal out of the nightclub. Police saw him with a gun in his hand and and didn't hesitate.

Look at how the NRA didn't defend Kenneth Walker, Breonna Taylor's boyfriend, when he defended his home from a no-knock warrant by police who did not adequately announce themselves. He also is a legal gun owner.

Black people with guns make White people VERY afraid. It's generational, deeply rooted guilt-based fear that the descendents of slaves will enact the vengeance their ancestors could not on the descedents of the enslavers. That is a myth. Black people have never sought revenge for slavery. It's always been about equity and equality as well as reparation, but never revenge.

[BarrileteCosmico]

That's entirely correct unfortunately

[Found]

I notice a lot of white liberals get very uncomfortable about black identity. They want every black person to be Carlton Banks seemingly. Would you agree mcLewis that most white liberal political discourse on racial integration is too stuck in the perspective of the white majority and doesn’t take into consideration the perspective of vulnerable racial minorities? For example white liberals complaining that it’s “segregation” when a black community maintains its ethnic characteristics.

[McLewis]

Sorry @Found,

Just now seeing your message here.

I can't say I've ever personally observed white liberals making an argument that black communities deciding to maintain its ehtnic characteristics is segregation. If I did, I would tell them what I've already said in this thread: segregation is involuntary so that's not what this is.

Overall, I think there is a great desire from white liberals to be allies to the Black community, just as there was from abolitionists 150+ years ago. The problem is that they want to be allies on their own terms. They want to do so without putting skin in the game, without disturbing their own comfort. Until they understand that it's not truly possible to ally oneself with a marginalized group without exposure to one's self, they are performers, not allies.

[McLewis]

Example of allyship:

BREAKING: Alan Pardew has walked away from his role as manager and technical director of CSKA Sofia with immediate effect, after a section of supporters targeted their own team’s black players with racist abuse. pic.twitter.com/ZsdQhSzEYx

— Sky Sports News (@SkySportsNews) June 1, 2022

Pardew put some skin in the game (his job) and leveraged it to show his support.

Had he merely said some things in support of the players, but did nothing, it would be performative.

[Thimmy]

I don't know which country that team is from, but something tells me that there won't be any consequences for those fans, which is the most disgusting part of it.

[VivaStPauli]

I don't know which country that team is from, but something tells me that there won't be any consequences for those fans, which is the most disgusting part of it.

Sofia is the capital of Bulgaria.
You could've googled it.
But honestly, could've probably known it, as a European. I mean, you had all the time. It was supposedly founded by the Thracians, so it had been around.

[Thimmy]

I don't know which country that team is from, but something tells me that there won't be any consequences for those fans, which is the most disgusting part of it.

Sofia is the capital of Bulgaria.
You could've googled it.
But honestly, could've probably known it, as a European. I mean, you had all the time. It was supposedly founded by the Thracians, so it had been around.

You're right, I could've. I was just about to go to bed when I wrote it and couldn't be arsed to google it. Bulgaria is one of few, European countries that I haven't traveled to in my life, but now that you mention it, I have heard that Sofia is their capital city. Good talk.

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