The Racism Thread

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Post by El Gunner Wed May 11, 2022 7:00 pm

racism is always complicated... black people admire the wealth of white people and white people admire the soul of black people.

anyway, i also don't see it as segregation, it's just re-investing into your own community.

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Post by Myesyats Wed May 11, 2022 7:19 pm

McLewis wrote:
Myesyats wrote:
McLewis wrote:She believes that Black people should have preference to open Black-owned businesses in Black communities.

Wait, isnt that segregation basically? Laughing

As for the graph, I dont think people have become more racist towards asians due to covid,  the pandemic just gave a reason to many to be more public about it.


Segregation is forced separation, often from an organized authoritative institution. Like a government.

What my relative advocates for is voluntary separation by the community itself. It's closer to isolation than segregation.

That sounds very counter-intuitive. How would you impose that or make it happen? You would need governmental intervention to enforce it aswell, basically redlining where some people can or cant set up business.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed May 11, 2022 9:49 pm

@eg these are people that are in their community though, just the wrong skin color. It's not segregation but it is discrimination, however well meaning.

@mclewis I'm reminded of a couple videos I've watched of Asians getting attacked by black people in nyc. It makes a little more sense with that perspective.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu May 12, 2022 2:50 am

McLewis wrote:So this hits close to home.

I have a relative that is extremely xenophobic, especially towards Asians, particularly East Asians. She only revealed this to me just a couple of weeks ago. I took this opportunity to deep dive into why she is this way.

It stems from the perceived ease in which East Asian immigrants enter poor Black neighborhoods, open businesses (like beauty shops) and then enrich themselves while treating the community, their customers, badly and with prejudice. She believes that Black people should have preference to open Black-owned businesses in Black communities.

I say "perceived" because the reality is that these businesses are not often flush to the point where these Asian families are able to live significantly better than their Black customers. My relative firmly believes that immigrants who come here somehow get to skip steps that Black people are forced to complete in order to start a business, secure loans, and make money. She believes the incentive of simply being an immigrant gives them an unfair advantage over native born descendants of slaves. I don't believe that personally though I will say that it is significantly harder for Black businesses to secure loans than it is for White businesses. I'm not sure what those numbers look like compared to Asian businesses though.

Given there are a lot more Black folks who think this way along with typical white racism, that graph is not at all far fetched to me.


Just curious McLewis, do u know if these immigrants bring their own money to invest to open these businesses or they take local loans n get preferred treatment over the black community?
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Post by McLewis Thu May 12, 2022 2:31 pm

El Gunner wrote:racism is always complicated... black people admire the wealth of white people and white people admire the soul of black people.

anyway, i also don't see it as segregation, it's just re-investing into your own community.

I don't know if admire is the right word. There's a lot of bitterness, that's for sure.

Agreed on re-investing as well. Beneath it all, Black people just want a chance to build communities on their own, independent of others. When they tried doing this a century ago, White people literally killed them and destroyed those efforts and have since built up a system designed to keep Black people from reaping the same benefits from it as everyone else.

Myesyats wrote:
McLewis wrote:
Myesyats wrote:
McLewis wrote:She believes that Black people should have preference to open Black-owned businesses in Black communities.

Wait, isnt that segregation basically? Laughing

As for the graph, I dont think people have become more racist towards asians due to covid,  the pandemic just gave a reason to many to be more public about it.


Segregation is forced separation, often from an organized authoritative institution. Like a government.

What my relative advocates for is voluntary separation by the community itself. It's closer to isolation than segregation.

That sounds very counter-intuitive. How would you impose that or make it happen? You would need governmental intervention to enforce it aswell, basically redlining where some people can or cant set up business.

The logical way to impose it would be to just not patronize those businesses. Hard to do in poor, working class neighborhoods where it would take significant time and effort to go out of one's way to patronize another business that may not be as geographically close as the Asian owned one right down the street. Given how inflation is rising, wages are stagnating, and other economic factors are now, it's a no brainer unfortunately.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:@eg these are people that are in their community though, just the wrong skin color. It's not segregation but it is discrimination, however well meaning.

@mclewis I'm reminded of a couple videos I've watched of Asians getting attacked by black people in nyc. It makes a little more sense with that perspective.

Agreed. My relative voiced what wouldn't surprise me as the motive for these attacks. The randomness of it is jarring to me though. I would not be surprised if mental illness is playing a part as well.

BarcaLearning wrote:
McLewis wrote:So this hits close to home.

I have a relative that is extremely xenophobic, especially towards Asians, particularly East Asians. She only revealed this to me just a couple of weeks ago. I took this opportunity to deep dive into why she is this way.

It stems from the perceived ease in which East Asian immigrants enter poor Black neighborhoods, open businesses (like beauty shops) and then enrich themselves while treating the community, their customers, badly and with prejudice. She believes that Black people should have preference to open Black-owned businesses in Black communities.

I say "perceived" because the reality is that these businesses are not often flush to the point where these Asian families are able to live significantly better than their Black customers. My relative firmly believes that immigrants who come here somehow get to skip steps that Black people are forced to complete in order to start a business, secure loans, and make money. She believes the incentive of simply being an immigrant gives them an unfair advantage over native born descendants of slaves. I don't believe that personally though I will say that it is significantly harder for Black businesses to secure loans than it is for White businesses. I'm not sure what those numbers look like compared to Asian businesses though.

Given there are a lot more Black folks who think this way along with typical white racism, that graph is not at all far fetched to me.


Just curious McLewis, do u know if these immigrants bring their own money to invest to open these businesses or they take local loans n get preferred treatment over the black community?

I don't honestly. I have to believe it depends on where they are coming from. The majority often come here with very little to nothing. That's what makes the "American Dream" so allurring. I have done zero research on this, but one thing I will be interested in finding out is the existence of the ease of access to funds immigrants get to open businesses compared to those born here. When I have more time, I will dig into this a bit.
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Post by McLewis Sun May 15, 2022 3:01 pm

I briefly debated posting this in the Gun violence thread, but the explicit racist nature of this warranted me posting it here.



Quick facts:

- Shooter is 18 years old
- Of the 13 reported casualties, 10 are Black.
- A security guard in the store tried to stop him by shooting him, but he was wearing a bulletproof vest. He killed that security guard.
- Wrote a manifesto declaring that he was radicalized on 4Chan
- Manifesto also mentioned other infamous white superemecist mass murders that he wanted emulate, with Dylan Roof being the most prominent.
- He drove 4 hours to the Buffalo, which has a large Black population and then went to the Blackest part of that city to commit this massacre.

This is what happens when the likes of Tucker Carlson lionize the likes of Kyle Rittenhouse. This is what happens when politicians like Lauren Boebert are posting Christmas photos of their young sons holding guns in front of the Christmas tree. These kids are more likely to become this guy.

It's also not lost on me that like so many other white mass murderers, police managed to take this one alive and yet:

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun May 15, 2022 9:08 pm

Horrible. Can't even imagine.

I'm sure his ideas are common place, replacement theory has been getting more and more popular lately and politicians and media look to profit from it. It's very depressing.
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Post by Myesyats Sun May 15, 2022 10:04 pm

Conservative media idolize these loons and further promote theories like this because they thrive on it. This way they can push their civil war agenda and other race baiting techniques. It's how they do politics, and they know what to feed their base with.
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Post by M99 Sun May 15, 2022 10:13 pm

Is this the type of free speech Elon is going to bring to Twitter?

The Racism Thread - Page 20 My6dkcnlhjz81
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Post by McLewis Mon May 16, 2022 3:47 pm

Yes. That account is already on Twitter. Very prominent.

Also more info coming out - The shooter was known to law enforcement. He threatened to shoot up his school and was put into some sort of mental health treatment facility. It obviously didn't take. His manifesto mentions his affinity for guns so obtaining one was apparently quite easy, despite it being New York state.

I personally don't believe federal or state background checks are enough. There should be psych exams as well, at both state and federal level. I don't want to ban all guns, but I do want to make it harder to obtain them. That's the way it should be in modern society.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon May 16, 2022 4:09 pm

Personally I don't understand how every black person is not walking around armed in this country. Impossible to feel safe.
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Post by McLewis Mon May 16, 2022 4:19 pm

Well the stats do show that there's been a significant uptick in Black gun ownership over the last few years.

Even I, who abhors the use of guns, took my first trip to a gun range last year while on vacation in Las Vegas. I'm not gonna lie. It was pretty fun and I found out that I'm a pretty good shot.

I can't see myself having one or using one in a real situation though, but I'm getting there. My best defense has always been to do well enough professionally to be able to live somewhere that would not require me to need to have a gun in my home. So far, that strategy has worked well.

There's a nagging feeling that the more Black gun ownership goes up, the more violent police encounters will become. Police already kill us when they assumed we're armed, even if we're not. Having more of us armed in those conflicts could seal their justification for killing us with more certainty.

Either way, the power dynamic between police and Black people won't shift much. This is where I'm stuck thinking about right now.
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Post by Myesyats Mon May 16, 2022 5:55 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Personally I don't understand how every black person is not walking around armed in this country. Impossible to feel safe.

I feel like this would make things so much worse overall Laughing

More guns = more deaths, and probably even more police brutality on top.

The solution is simple:
- take away all assault rifles (No need for AR-15s for self-defense because it's not a defensive weapon)
- allow pistols/handguns but only after training and under a license.


It is doable if there is political will for it, but it seems there isnt.
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Post by FennecFox7 Mon May 16, 2022 5:56 pm

Psych exams are a great idea mclewis. Never thought of that.

I’m a big proponent of the second amendment but when will enough be enough? I’m unsure why so many libertarians and republicans are against a psych eval and restricting access to insane people

Horrible tragedy. I’m from Syracuse which is not far at all. And I have childhood friends in Buffalo. Just wow
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Post by FennecFox7 Mon May 16, 2022 5:56 pm

There is a big black market for guns mye. We need to take care of that as well
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Post by McLewis Mon May 16, 2022 6:15 pm

FennecFox7 wrote:Psych exams are a great idea mclewis. Never thought of that.

I’m a big proponent of the second amendment but when will enough be enough? I’m unsure why so many libertarians and republicans are against a psych eval and restricting access to insane people

Horrible tragedy. I’m from Syracuse which is not far at all. And I have childhood friends in Buffalo. Just wow


My read on this is they oppose psych exams largely due to the fact that psychologists answer to a board, which functions as a government institution, at least at the state level. So, to them, the gov't would be deciding who gets a gun and who doesn't. That's a non-starter for them naturally, considering the 2nd amendmet was created to protect them from that very notion. It's misinformation of course, but Fox News and the NRA have done their work well.
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Post by McLewis Mon May 16, 2022 6:24 pm

Myesyats wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:Personally I don't understand how every black person is not walking around armed in this country. Impossible to feel safe.

I feel like this would make things so much worse overall Laughing

More guns = more deaths, and probably even more police brutality on top.

The solution is simple:
- take away all assault rifles (No need for AR-15s for self-defense because it's not a defensive weapon)
- allow pistols/handguns but only after training and under a license.


It is doable if there is political will for it, but it seems there isnt.


Pistols and handguns have been modified to go from semi-auto to auto via tools like bump stocks.

Someone trained on how to use a firearm doesn't necessarily make them psychologically or mentally stable enough to use one. Licenses exist primarily to protect sellers and manufacturers from liability.

Frankly, this has to be attacked at the root and that starts with psych exams.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon May 16, 2022 7:37 pm

@myesyats you're wrong, it's not possible. This is a country that watched an entire elementary school get gunned down and did NOTHING.

I'm well aware that it would make everything worse at a macro level, but when there's people literally gunning you down for existing what else are you to do?

Let's be real though, if every black man purchased a gun tomorrow the GOP would pass gun control in a heartbeat
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Post by McLewis Mon May 16, 2022 8:03 pm

Yeah we saw that play out in the 70s in California with the Black Panthers. And that was super liberal California.

What I have come to understand far too late is that the 2nd amendment was never meant for Black people. It was always meant only for White people.

I mean look at how the NRA didn't defend Philando Castile, a legal gun owner, who was shot to death in his car while going to show a cop his gun permit.

Look at how the NRA didn't defend Jemel Roberson, a nightclub bouncer and legal gun owner, who was killed by police as he chased an actual criminal out of the nightclub. Police saw him with a gun in his hand and and didn't hesitate.

Look at how the NRA didn't defend Kenneth Walker, Breonna Taylor's boyfriend, when he defended his home from a no-knock warrant by police who did not adequately announce themselves. He also is a legal gun owner.

Black people with guns make White people VERY afraid. It's generational, deeply rooted guilt-based fear that the descendents of slaves will enact the vengeance their ancestors could not on the descedents of the enslavers. That is a myth. Black people have never sought revenge for slavery. It's always been about equity and equality as well as reparation, but never revenge.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon May 16, 2022 9:55 pm

That's entirely correct unfortunately
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Post by Found Wed May 18, 2022 7:37 pm

I notice a lot of white liberals get very uncomfortable about black identity. They want every black person to be Carlton Banks seemingly. Would you agree mcLewis that most white liberal political discourse on racial integration is too stuck in the perspective of the white majority and doesn’t take into consideration the perspective of vulnerable racial minorities? For example white liberals complaining that it’s “segregation” when a black community maintains its ethnic characteristics.
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Post by McLewis Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:41 pm

Sorry @Found,

Just now seeing your message here.

I can't say I've ever personally observed white liberals making an argument that black communities deciding to maintain its ehtnic characteristics is segregation. If I did, I would tell them what I've already said in this thread: segregation is involuntary so that's not what this is.

Overall, I think there is a great desire from white liberals to be allies to the Black community, just as there was from abolitionists 150+ years ago. The problem is that they want to be allies on their own terms. They want to do so without putting skin in the game, without disturbing their own comfort. Until they understand that it's not truly possible to ally oneself with a marginalized group without exposure to one's self, they are performers, not allies.
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Post by McLewis Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:41 pm

Example of allyship:



Pardew put some skin in the game (his job) and leveraged it to show his support.

Had he merely said some things in support of the players, but did nothing, it would be performative.
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Post by Thimmy Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:14 am

I don't know which country that team is from, but something tells me that there won't be any consequences for those fans, which is the most disgusting part of it.
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:39 am

Thimmy wrote:I don't know which country that team is from, but something tells me that there won't be any consequences for those fans, which is the most disgusting part of it.


Sofia is the capital of Bulgaria.
You could've googled it.
But honestly, could've probably known it, as a European. I mean, you had all the time. It was supposedly founded by the Thracians, so it had been around.
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Post by Thimmy Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:13 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
Thimmy wrote:I don't know which country that team is from, but something tells me that there won't be any consequences for those fans, which is the most disgusting part of it.


Sofia is the capital of Bulgaria.
You could've googled it.
But honestly, could've probably known it, as a European. I mean, you had all the time. It was supposedly founded by the Thracians, so it had been around.


You're right, I could've. I was just about to go to bed when I wrote it and couldn't be arsed to google it. Bulgaria is one of few, European countries that I haven't traveled to in my life, but now that you mention it, I have heard that Sofia is their capital city. Good talk.
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