The Racism Thread

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Post by CBarca Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:05 am

What I find weird is your championing of certain individuals at the same time as your willingness to absolutely tear down other individuals and never give them a second chance.

Why can't we admit that people like LeBron or Bernie are complicated people who have good in them but also humans who make mistakes, say ignorant things sometimes, act in their own self interest, and occasionally give into their own "vices", so to speak. These same people could very well be amazing people who are a net positive for the world and for America.

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Post by Thimmy Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:21 am

Net, positive. Politics, negative Molenation
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Post by Young Kaz Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:40 am

@CBarca wrote:What I find weird is your championing of certain individuals at the same time as your willingness to absolutely tear down other individuals and never give them a second chance.

Why can't we admit that people like LeBron or Bernie are complicated people who have good in them but also humans who make mistakes, say ignorant things sometimes, act in their own self interest, and occasionally give into their own "vices", so to speak. These same people could very well be amazing people who are a net positive for the world and for America.


Im all for second chances. Hell, I wouldnt have voted for Biden if I was not, but we have to be honest here.

People want black people to be workhorses for their rights when they wont do the same for black people. There is no shortage of Chinese people(and others, but lets focus on Chinese people) trying to hold Lebron's feet to the fire for not going hard over China and Hong Kong the way he does for injustices in his community. These same people have NEVER stood up for black people here or in their homes. This is a fact. To be part of the world community you have to be a good neighbor, and being a good neighbor isnt sitting on your ass expecting other people to do for you. It isnt demanding respect from others when you dont show them respect. It isnt getting mad at a black athlete not going to bat for you when you sit around championing white supremacy and promoting racism against people who look like said star in your community.

I know enough Chinese characters to be able to, just about, understand how Hong Kongers speak on their social media platform and I have read things stated by them. The idea that they expected anybody to shed tears for their "woe is me" tune, much less a black star, is laughable. These people are about as bad as the falun dafa. At least those bigots will at least teach their followers good stretching techniques. Only stretching they do in Hong Kong is their ass cheeks for Europeans.

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Post by rincon Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:04 am

So many words to say:
Human rights in the US = worthy cause
Human rights in Hong Kong = bad cause

You are just a racist hypocrite.
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Post by Myesyats Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:11 am

Strangely it seems to me like you just want to shit on honk kongers for no reason Kaz hmm

Lebron kinda sounds like a hypocrite too

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Post by Myesyats Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:30 am

Why you make me agree with fucikng Megan Kelly :facepalm:


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Post by Young Kaz Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:50 pm

@rincon wrote:So many words to say:
Human rights in the US = worthy cause
Human rights in Hong Kong = bad cause

You are just a racist hypocrite.


I am the same race as the people I am talking about. I have been banned defending Chinese people on here from Africans. Lets not play around with this.

People demanding a star from an ethnic group they have NEVER defended, NEVER stood up for, NEVER even given a modicum of fucking respect to give everything up to go to bat for them= Unreasonable, unacceptable, horrific demand.

If Hong Kong and their diaspora had been stomp down people. You know, on the front lines standing up for the rights of others. Been champions for the downtrodden, been pillars of those who have had their rights trampled on, then you know I would have been right on the frontline throwing Lebron under the bus for not standing by them. You know I would because I have NEVER missed a chance to stand by other Asians . They dont do that and they have never did.

They treat EVERYONE like shit. A black person cant even get into most bars in the mid level district of Hong Kong but you expect the most popular Black athlete on earth to go to bat for them? Laughing FUCK THEM. Why dont they let Trump who they worship or some dying piece of shit Apartheid scumbag who ran off to Australia when they were told they have to live in peace with Black folks to go to bat for them.

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Post by Thimmy Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:49 pm

@Myesyats wrote:Why you make me agree with fucikng Megan Kelly :facepalm:



She makes controversial statements that are usually tied to her being a conservative christian, as well as the fact that they garner attention for Faux News. I've always had the impression that she's fairly intelligent, but dishonest. It's not her ability, or lack thereof, to rationalize her arguments that I usually disagree with, but rather her motives behind her arguments.
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Post by Warrior Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:33 am

Better to live a world where people can be allowed a little incoherence within their principles as long as there is no villainous intentions behind. It's much more convenient than just giving shit to everyone.

LeBron spends a lot of energy about social justice in USA and deserves praise for it. Then he weighted the pros and the cons in regard to his current situation and future legacy and decided fighting against China was not worth it. The exact same train of thought by the NBA as an entity. That's really how i perceive it Laughing there is a bit of hypocrisy but here we can call it selective benevolence

Any multinational has denounced how chinese government treats the Uyghurs ? Genuine question
But i know for sure all of them have supported the Black Lives Matters last summer... which is better than nothing and it raised awareness a lot... but then it had became clear by June 2020 this would be a low risk/high reward operation for the business
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Post by Warrior Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:39 am

Canada's parliament officially recognize the Uyghur situation as a genocide. Vote ended 266-0 and only Justin Trudeau and the Liberal cabinet used abstention. That's hypocrisy.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:09 am

https://i.redd.it/9ci6g0y6ofk61.jpg

Lmao, US gone crazy
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Post by Young Kaz Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:15 am

@Warrior wrote:Better to live a world where people can be allowed a little incoherence within their principles as long as there is no villainous intentions behind. It's much more convenient than just giving shit to everyone.

LeBron spends a lot of energy about social justice in USA and deserves praise for it. Then he weighted the pros and the cons in regard to his current situation and future legacy and decided fighting against China was not worth it. The exact same train of thought by the NBA as an entity. That's really how i perceive it Laughing there is a bit of hypocrisy but here we can call it selective benevolence

Any multinational has denounced how chinese government treats the Uyghurs ? Genuine question
But i know for sure all of them have supported the Black Lives Matters last summer... which is better than nothing and it raised awareness a lot... but then it had became clear by June 2020 this would be a low risk/high reward operation for the business


Thats the thing though. Why is the burden of expectation on Lebron, or black people in general, to stand up for people who have never shown respect to them? Its not hypocrisy. Nobody was out campaigning for the rights of germans when the allies were bombing german cities during ww2. Why is Lebron a hypocrite for not speaking up for a group who has:

1. Supported apartheid when the world was overwhelmingly against it?
2. Refuses to speak up for people who look like him in their communities who face widespread discrimination?
3. Shown to praise and bow down to leaders who have personally attacked his character(Their love of trump)


Hong Kong has not earned going to bat for by this group, much less a black athlete with a limited platform to speak for his marginalized group that the other group REFUSES to advocate for.

Bruce Lee, before becoming a movie star used to teach martial art classes at the Lee Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute in Seattle. His school so his rules. He taught anybody who wanted to learn the sweet art. Taky Kimura god rest his soul(he died in January of this year), always spoke about how Hong Kong people would give Bruce shit for teaching japanese people like him and black people the art. They'd have to physically fight these cats. Thats how deep the hatred was in their heart even back in the 50s. Long before CCP ever threatened them. They hate others because thats what the British taught them. They think it makes them better than others....you hate to see it.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:27 am

The burden is on him because he put himself out there and makes these kinds of statements



Mind you, I don't think Lebron has an obligation to champion every cause of injustice out there. He could've easily stayed silent in the whole Hong Kong debate and no one would've cared.

But he took the CCP's side (a racist, genocidal government if there ever was one) and chastised someone else for speaking out. And naturally a lot of people thought that was hypocritical.

Anyways going in circles here so prob the last I'll say on this.
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Post by rincon Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:39 am

@Warrior

Lebron could have simply not said anything regarding China and Hong Kong and it would be fine. He can't fight every battle. But he chose to fight the battle for the CCP side criticising the ones speaking against them.

Makes many of his statements pretty hypocritical, including the ones regarding Ibra that started this whole discussion. He basically said the same Ibra did, criticised people in sport speaking about politics, but said it to support China's government treatment of Hong Kong, which makes it worse.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:47 am

@Warrior wrote:Any multinational has denounced how chinese government treats the Uyghurs ? Genuine question

No because it's a cost-benefit situation. Unlike speaking out against racism or hate speech, criticizing the actions of China’s government carries a large financial risk, which is, by the way, the reason the world is still being dead silent about the Uyghur genocide.

As for Lebron, well he can't speak out against every injustice in the world even if he wanted to. But what he could do is to not try to shut up people who speaks out against it either. He could've easily refrained from making his first comment, but instead he went on and said something that showed he was simply being a hypocrite who only speaks out when it's convenient for him.
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Post by Thimmy Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:50 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:https://i.redd.it/9ci6g0y6ofk61.jpg

Lmao, US gone crazy


What did she win? Is Madonna a woman of color, too? hmm
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Post by Myesyats Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:04 am

A country so desperate about getting rid of racism they're sure as hell obsessed with color

Every week in the news I see "first person of color to do this, first to do that"

She's whiter than my ass cheek btw and the supposedly liberal media fuel racism way more than any nationalist republican hiding in the woods and coming out once every 4 years to vote red.

I'm watching all this from across the pond like "What in the holy moly macaroni is that?" Maybe people wouldnt even think about race as much if it wasnt in the media every goshdarn week. Someone must be profiting off of that

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Post by Pedram Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:14 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:https://i.redd.it/9ci6g0y6ofk61.jpg

Lmao, US gone crazy

:facepalm:
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Post by Young Kaz Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:34 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:The burden is on him because he put himself out there and makes these kinds of statements



Mind you, I don't think Lebron has an obligation to champion every cause of injustice out there. He could've easily stayed silent in the whole Hong Kong debate and no one would've cared.

But he took the CCP's side (a racist, genocidal government if there ever was one) and chastised someone else for speaking out. And naturally a lot of people thought that was hypocritical.

Anyways going in circles here so prob the last I'll say on this.


Even then. CCP didnt proudly and openly give money to people torturing Mandela in jail. Hong Kong did(to the chagrin of the rest of the civilized world).

The only difference between the CCP and Hong Kong if we are being honest is that the CCP can back up what they say. Hong Kong has to rely on the White supremacist structure to protect them, and they learn like useful idiots always have, there is no exit policy being a lap dog to Europeans in Asia, and when others ride on you the same white supremacist you went to bat for wont do anything other than pay you lip service.

Hong Kong getting their comeuppance probably isnt seen as an injustice to Lebron. It isnt seen as much to pretty much anybody.

If people want to land body blows on China focus on their other crimes, which are numerous. Not them marching on a bunch of white worshipping secessionists on an island.

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Post by Young Kaz Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:36 pm

@Myesyats wrote:A country so desperate about getting rid of racism they're sure as hell obsessed with color

Every week in the news I see "first person of color to do this, first to do that"

She's whiter than my ass cheek btw and the supposedly liberal media fuel racism way more than any nationalist republican hiding in the woods and coming out once every 4 years to vote red.

I'm watching all this from across the pond like "What in the holy moly macaroni is that?" Maybe people wouldnt even think about race as much if it wasnt in the media every goshdarn week. Someone must be profiting off of that


If we ignore cancer then maybe cancer will go away?

Thats laughable. America is the beacon for the rest of the world because we have been able to have these uncomfortable conversations.

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Post by Warrior Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:41 pm

Ah i didn't LeBron actively tries to shut up protesters against CCP. Then yes he can fuck off and mind his own business.

Agreed in all with Myesyats post #623 the media talk all the time for racism because they know it gets them clicks and viewers

Also this blonde lady gives me a bit of a Michael Jackson vibe, look at her face. Maybe she had more colors before hmm
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Post by Thimmy Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:59 pm

@Warrior wrote:

Also this blonde lady gives me a bit of a Michael Jackson vibe, look at her face. Maybe she had more colors before hmm


She’s the lead role in Queen’s Gambit. I couldn’t find any «exotic- looking» pictures of her on Google. Looks very much white to me. Maybe I should take notes from the shining beacon that is the US of A, and call her hispanic for the sake of it hmm
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Post by McLewis Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:40 pm

So I've missed quite a bit in this thread so I'll give some quick takes:

- Lebron was damned if he do, damned if he didn't. Had he stayed silent on China / Hong Kong, he would've been criticized anyway given he's the face of the NBA and there would've been pressure for him to say something. He chose to speak up about racial injustice here and it wasn't perfect. Now he's getting criticized anyway, unsurprisingly by those on the American right-wing, who need absolutely no reason to go after athletes of color if they dare stop counting their millions to actually have an opinion on how fucked up this country really is when it comes to race.

- Zlatan's remarks are not surprising. He's one of the greatest strikers of all time, but as a person? This is who he is. He's always been arrogant and vain. And he has successfully channeled that into a brand, a slogan, a zeitgeist I suppose. Is he racist? I really don't know. What I do know is that racism is about intent to harm, to demean, to ridicule. What Zlatan said about Lukaku meets all of that criteria.

Lets throw it out there. @mclewis. African Americans make up the economic base of Chinese American businesses in the United States. Including Hong Kong Americans. Has a Chinese American star EVER advocated for the black community? Have they EVER put themselves on the line for people who look like you? Have they EVER been on the forefront of social protests or justice issues for your community? We both know the answer to this.

I can't say I've ever seen an Asian person publicly defend a black person from racism, but that's not indicative of it never happening. We don't have a large Asian population here in the Detroit area, but even at protests, the crowds are largely black, white and brown. Very few Asians seen. I don't think that's indicative of a lack of support, just scarce population.

- On the Boston School topic - I recall a similar controversy in NYC. Good schools in predominantly black and brown areas had largely white and Asian students going there. Personally, I think this is the right call from the Boston school system. The right-wing are naturally attacking this due to the elements of CRT at play, but I don't see this as a dismantling of a merit-based system anymore than defunding the police is a dismantling of law enforcement. It's a re-analysis and re-calibration of a system designed to lift up certain races (under the guise of "merit") while ignoring others who have been written off as not good enough before they even enter the building to take the exam. Favoritism among teachers and other educators fuels this.

- As for Megyn Kelly and Bill Maher. Kelly is a known quantity given the shit she has already said about black people. Her racism is well known. Maher's is less so, but it's always been there. He's the type of liberal the likes of Malcolm X warned are the most damaging to racial equality efforts. His edginess was cringe 10 years ago when he was at the height of his fame. Now? It's just outdated.

- Lastly, Anya Taylor-Joy seems an intelligent enough woman to know that having a half-Argentine dad does not make her as Latina as say...Salma Hayek. I think the way this topic is viewed depends on how much effort is put into separating ethnicity from heritage from nationality. Personally, for me this would be more annoying if I were Argentine than if I were of Latin ethnicity and heritage. Yet, the thought that I keep coming back to is a few hundred years ago, she would be among the slaveholding Criollo nobility and not the enslaved black and indigenous natives. That's always another barometer to measure as well.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:43 pm

Lastly, Anya Taylor-Joy seems an intelligent enough woman to know that having a half-Argentine dad does not make her as Latina as say...Salma Hayek. I think the way this topic is viewed depends on how much effort is put into separating ethnicity from heritage from nationality. Personally, for me this would be more annoying if I were Argentine than if I were of Latin ethnicity and heritage. Yet, the thought that I keep coming back to is a few hundred years ago, she would be among the slaveholding Criollo nobility and not the enslaved black and indigenous natives. That's always another barometer to measure as well.

So on this one, as another white Argentine living in the US, I think I can contribute my own perspective. As far as I know, this is a claim being made about Anya rather than by herself.

But personally, I would never in a million years call myself a POC. POC, to me, is a label designed to encompass all the different peoples that suffer from some form of discrimination due to the color of their skin. I never have and probably never will, and appropriating that label would feel wrong to me however technically correct it may be.

The root cause of the issue is the US insisting on treating 'latins' like a race rather than an ethnicity (and even then there's wide disagreement about whether such an ethnicity even exists, the wiki page on 'Latino (US usage)' pretty much makes fun of the term). So it gets confounded into these race issues and creates these awkward situations.
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Post by McLewis Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:55 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Lastly, Anya Taylor-Joy seems an intelligent enough woman to know that having a half-Argentine dad does not make her as Latina as say...Salma Hayek. I think the way this topic is viewed depends on how much effort is put into separating ethnicity from heritage from nationality. Personally, for me this would be more annoying if I were Argentine than if I were of Latin ethnicity and heritage. Yet, the thought that I keep coming back to is a few hundred years ago, she would be among the slaveholding Criollo nobility and not the enslaved black and indigenous natives. That's always another barometer to measure as well.

So on this one, as another white Argentine living in the US, I think I can contribute my own perspective. As far as I know, this is a claim being made about Anya rather than by herself.

But personally, I would never in a million years call myself a POC. POC, to me, is a label designed to encompass all the different peoples that suffer from some form of discrimination due to the color of their skin. I never have and probably never will, and appropriating that label would feel wrong to me however technically correct it may be.

The root cause of the issue is the US insisting on treating 'latins' like a race rather than an ethnicity (and even then there's wide disagreement about whether such an ethnicity even exists, the wiki page on 'Latino (US usage)' pretty much makes fun of the term). So it gets confounded into these race issues and creates these awkward situations.


It's similar to the ridicule that the term "latinx" is seeing, which was created as a more inclusive way to encapsulate everyone of latin origin. Then there's the confusion between Latin and Hispanic. Most Americans do not see a discernable difference between the 2 and use them interchangeably. Put on top of that, the use of "hyphenated American".

Some say the above should only be used by someone who actively immigrated to the US. If you were born here, you're just American, but that's different from non-hyphenated Americans (Irish Americans, Italian Americans, etc). That denotes heritage more than ethnicity. It's why some people have a problem with the term "African American" given many of us do not observe traditional customs associated with the heritage of the various African tribes. Slavery made sure many of us won't even be able to determine what tribe we descend from. Knowing that, I'm sure many black folks would happily adopt some of those customs, just as cultures do the same from their mother countries.

It's all very convoluted and it all means different things to different people in different cultures. As for Taylor-Joy. She's Caucasian and I think that's probably the way she sees herself.
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Post by Thimmy Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:01 pm

@McLewis wrote:
It's similar to the ridicule that the term "latinx" is seeing, which was created as a more inclusive way to encapsulate everyone of latin origin. Then there's the confusion between Latin and Hispanic. Most Americans do not see a discernable difference between the 2 and use them interchangeably. Put on top of that, the use of "hyphenated American".


That reminds me of this article I was shown by MT. Might be a better fit for the politically correct/LGBT thread.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56251452

What's the deal with the added x? It gives me the impression that it's merely an attempt to start a popular gimmick. It certainly doesn't appear to make things more inclusive.
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