Champions League 2020/21 | Group G

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Which two team will progress ?

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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:54 pm

Time to bring up another Milan legend from the historic crop.

I vote for კახაბერ (კახა) კალაძე, on that note.

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Post by RealGunner on Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:54 pm

Kulusevski shouldn't be a winger. He reminds me of when we used to play Bendtner on the wing. Awkward dribbler, awful crosser and can't make a decent run.

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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:56 pm

Insane how Pirlo plays a very central play in Kulusevski, out wide and of course benching their most in form player in Ramsey who is reborn under the coach.
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Post by Warrior on Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:57 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:This game really shows how much work Pirlo needs to do, the players just seem to be suffering and dont know what to do, or cant pull off what he demanded of them? I feel for ya'll Juve fans, not used to this at all, but I guess being so ambitious with the manager changes, it was also a gamble and will take time.



Since 2017 Juve has fake ambition. The essence of the club is changing. It's all about image, what will give us more likes on social media. Powder to the eyes.

Allegri was available after a 1 year break. He was the obvious choice. Yet we took someone who had zero experience. How else can we explain that ?
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Post by rincon on Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:58 pm

@Warrior wrote:
@BarcaLearning wrote:This game really shows how much work Pirlo needs to do, the players just seem to be suffering and dont know what to do, or cant pull off what he demanded of them? I feel for ya'll Juve fans, not used to this at all, but I guess being so ambitious with the manager changes, it was also a gamble and will take time.



Since 2017 Juve has fake ambition. The essence of the club is changing. It's all about image, what will give us more likes on social media. Powder to the eyes.

Allegri was available after a 1 year break. He was the obvious choice. Yet we took someone who had zero experience. How else can we explain that ?

We might have to call him back soon if Pirlo doesn't pull it together
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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:59 pm

I still think Pirlo has it in him as I maintain there is obvious potential in his ideas but the man has to be decisive and fast and play to his players strengths.

Cheillini, de Ligt and Cristiano on would have helped (and Ramsey) but they lack chemistry for now and their attitude I feel is not where it should be.


Those are football teams as a whole without the crowd noise though, it must be said.
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Post by Warrior on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:03 pm

I don't know which % of the blame Pirlo deserves. Probably not to high. His only real mistake is accepting the job. Because with the state of the squad, state of the finances and possible moves, his total lack of experience even with U23, and the current circumstance that our best CB is running his last mile... i believe the managers put him on the grill for no reason.

Nedved and Paratici are guys who know their football, surely they aren't so clueless to think this was the ideal choice. So the decision must have come from higher.
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Post by rincon on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:04 pm

His ideas have potential but he needs to get much more out of the team in terms of organisation and solidity. The amount of space and errors are unacceptable in this match. No matter the circumstances. The minimum should be a well executed plan. This openess led to too many chances conceded, and while any of our 3 disallowed goals could have been legal with a bit more luck, its still too uncertain.

Need Chiellini, Buffon, and Ronaldo to come back and yell at everyone until they understand how a Juve game must go.
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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:06 pm

Guys you are panicking too early. Better than what the Marlboro man did in abandoning his ideas to play into a shell to go for the Scudetto. Pirlo still is attempting something different each match and it will pay off on the long run should he find his mark and the players find harmony with it.


Not to mention with de Ligt back, Dybala back in form post injury and Ronaldo it'll be another stage.
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Post by McLewis on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:07 pm

I'm biased, but I like that McKennie is a go-to option for Pirlo off the bench, down to Barca in the CL.

From what I saw, it seemed Pirlo didn't want a 2nd Barca goal. McKennie's a player that can help prevent that, especially with Juve a man down.
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Post by alexjanosik on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:08 pm

Juve were not very good. We should have won with a better margin and had Ansu started, we would have won 5-0 or something. First thing which struck me was the ease with which we played the ball out and passed.
We suck at playing the ball out and literally no one allows us to pass the ball around anymore. And yet, here we did it with ease. I am sorry, but Pirlo is out of his depth.

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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:09 pm

McKennie bar the odd attempt at a shot, coming in looked rather good. I mean his engine is quite a thing as most American players hold that mentality (not to stereotype) but controls the ball well and can be an asset if Pirlo plays to his strengths, that is for sure.
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Post by rincon on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:09 pm

Its not that things will not get better, they will.

Chiellini, De Ligt, Alex Sandro and Ronaldo will be back. Dybala and Bonucci will recover form after injury. Chiesa, Kulu and Arthur will acclimated to the team. Morata will learn the offside rule.

That doesn't mean that Pirlo didn't come out of this looking like a noob. What kind of organisation is that for a CL match? Unacceptable. He has to do better in the big stage with what he has.
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Post by alexjanosik on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:09 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:Guys you are panicking too early. Better than what the Marlboro man did in abandoning his ideas to play into a shell to go for the Scudetto. Pirlo still is attempting something different each match and it will pay off on the long run should he find his mark and the players find harmony with it.


Not to mention with de Ligt back, Dybala back in form post injury and Ronaldo it'll be another stage.


What is his idea of how he wants Juve to play?

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Post by Warrior on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:11 pm

It would not be the first time i panic too early relating to Juve

Sadly i think my current evaluation is quite lucid. I just don't see enough satisfying signs from this squad. Winning because of Ronaldo and losing or drawing Hellas when he's not there is not good enough for me.
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Post by BarcaLearning on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:11 pm

Juve has always been more direct and pragmatic with Allegri and then Sarri tried to mix that with more build up play and 'good football' correct? But Pirlo looking like taking it to another level and trying to play, but not enough thoughts on directness and results, would be be correct to say?

Warrior you mentioned the change in the club, I guess its trying to evolve with the times... can see that with the new silly looking imo new club logo lol...
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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:14 pm

@alexjanosik wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:Guys you are panicking too early. Better than what the Marlboro man did in abandoning his ideas to play into a shell to go for the Scudetto. Pirlo still is attempting something different each match and it will pay off on the long run should he find his mark and the players find harmony with it.


Not to mention with de Ligt back, Dybala back in form post injury and Ronaldo it'll be another stage.


What is his idea of how he wants Juve to play?


Based on his words and my short sample size of watching Juve under Pirlo, it is high pressing, winning the ball as fast as they can. dominating the centre and spreading it out wide from the centre. Ball playing CBs The man is quoted directly to be inspired by the Dutch-Barça principles you hold so dear yourself.

Trouble is, I don't see him adhering to that as much as he did in his initial games but each game he seems to be trying something new.


I wouldn't call him out of his depth but he is taking his time far too much for what may be qualified as normal. Problem also is he literally has zero coaching experience in any form. But hearing him speak and seeing the semblances of what he is attempting, has me convinced he knows the game very well but that does not necessarily translate well into all the facets of coaching, of course.
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Post by rincon on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:15 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:Juve has always been more direct and pragmatic with Allegri and then Sarri tried to mix that with more build up play and 'good football' correct? But Pirlo looking like taking it to another level and trying to play, but not enough thoughts on directness and results, would be be correct to say?

Sort of, except for the end. Pirlo so far has been all about directness, too much even, certainly for a match like this. Too open and attacking. This is difficult to implement and will take time. But he won't get too much time if he doesn't improve results ASAP.
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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:15 pm

@rincon wrote:Its not that things will not get better, they will.

Chiellini, De Ligt, Alex Sandro and Ronaldo will be back. Dybala and Bonucci will recover form after injury. Chiesa, Kulu and Arthur will acclimated to the team. Morata will learn the offside rule.

That doesn't mean that Pirlo didn't come out of this looking like a noob. What kind of organisation is that for a CL match? Unacceptable. He has to do better in the big stage with what he has.



Agreed fully.
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Post by Warrior on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:20 pm

@alexjanosik wrote:Juve were not very good. We should have won with a better margin and had Ansu started, we would have won 5-0 or something. First thing which struck me was the ease with which we played the ball out and passed.
We suck at playing the ball out and literally no one allows us to pass the ball around anymore. And yet, here we did it with ease. I am sorry, but Pirlo is out of his depth.


Agreed with all that, but as veteran player a guy like Bonucci could have done better. The instructions were either a high defensive line or a low line, i have big doubts it was a yo-yo line where we just follow the ball and attempt clumsy tackles just before the box.

And i've seen just second half :coffee:



@BarcaLearning wrote:I guess its trying to evolve with the times... can see that with the new silly looking imo new club logo lol...  

Yes that's precisely how it started

The intention was damn clear back then, and unfortunately this deluded project is still on. Ridiculous
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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:22 pm

The Juventus is run is akin to a mid-life crisis by a suburban male boomer in the American Midwest named Warren.
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Post by alexjanosik on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:25 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:
@alexjanosik wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:Guys you are panicking too early. Better than what the Marlboro man did in abandoning his ideas to play into a shell to go for the Scudetto. Pirlo still is attempting something different each match and it will pay off on the long run should he find his mark and the players find harmony with it.


Not to mention with de Ligt back, Dybala back in form post injury and Ronaldo it'll be another stage.


What is his idea of how he wants Juve to play?


Based on his words and my short sample size of watching Juve under Pirlo, it is high pressing, winning the ball as fast as they can. dominating the centre and spreading it out wide from the centre. Ball playing CBs The man is quoted directly to be inspired by the Dutch-Barça principles you hold so dear yourself.

Trouble is, I don't see him adhering to that as much as he did in his initial games but each game he seems to be trying something new.


I wouldn't call him out of his depth but he is taking his time far too much for what may be qualified as normal. Problem also is he literally has zero coaching experience in any form. But hearing him speak and seeing the semblances of what he is attempting, has me convinced he knows the game very well but that does not necessarily translate well into all the facets of coaching, of course.


Thanks for clarifying. His press is atrocious. As I mentioned, we played the ball out extremely well and that hasnt happened for like 5 years now. Most teams suffocate us with pressing and yet this game we passed beautifully around the press. That can mean either we changed overnight or more likely Juve's press sucked. I think it's the latter. I think Pep and Zidane have made it difficult for players coming straight into coaching. Every club is attempting to do it with their recently retired legends and its just not fair. Not everyone is a Pep who is a genius or has the luck of the devil like Zidane. And these legends should be careful and thoughtful themselves imo. They should learn the ropes under an experienced manager like Arteta did or take a less high pressure job first. That way, they can learn the finer nuances of the job under less pressure.

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Post by Arquitecto on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:29 pm

@alexjanosik wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:
@alexjanosik wrote:

What is his idea of how he wants Juve to play?


Based on his words and my short sample size of watching Juve under Pirlo, it is high pressing, winning the ball as fast as they can. dominating the centre and spreading it out wide from the centre. Ball playing CBs The man is quoted directly to be inspired by the Dutch-Barça principles you hold so dear yourself.

Trouble is, I don't see him adhering to that as much as he did in his initial games but each game he seems to be trying something new.


I wouldn't call him out of his depth but he is taking his time far too much for what may be qualified as normal. Problem also is he literally has zero coaching experience in any form. But hearing him speak and seeing the semblances of what he is attempting, has me convinced he knows the game very well but that does not necessarily translate well into all the facets of coaching, of course.


Thanks for clarifying. His press is atrocious. As I mentioned, we played the ball out extremely well and that hasnt happened for like 5 years now. Most teams suffocate us with pressing and yet this game we passed beautifully around the press. That can mean either we changed overnight or more likely Juve's press sucked. I think it's the latter. I think Pep and Zidane have made it difficult for players coming straight into coaching. Every club is attempting to do it with their recently retired legends and its just not fair. Not everyone is a Pep who is a genius or has the luck of the devil like Zidane. And these legends should be careful and thoughtful themselves imo. They should learn the ropes under an experienced manager like Arteta did or take a less high pressure job first. That way, they can learn the finer nuances of the job under less pressure.



To me though it is clear above all he rather figure out the macro facets of his squad before he implements what he's spoken about so much. Because his press and attacking shape was quite better in his initial starts this season until he abandoned it for experimentation I feel can pay off but recent bouts of injuries then Dybala returning is around the time he did just as that. I simply do not believe he is aiming for points but building what is a system beyond his current reach because as you said experience is so important in having that in cohesion as Arteta indeed made the smart choice in his career, to Xabi Alonso in his state, to Xavi in a low end choice for Al-Saad to Pep himself.

I'd give it to mid-late season to judge if he can actually implement his fantastical ideas otherwise he is another dreamer.
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Post by M99 on Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:11 pm

That was tragic. Barca was so unimpressive but got a deserving win. Demerit red card icing on the cake.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:37 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:
@CBarca wrote:Dembele oozes talent. Just hope he gets his head right.

He's one of the best I've ever seen at those body feints.

Frustrating is the right word. I get so frustrated when I see a player with so much talent not taking advantage of his qualities.

Don't really get why Barça fans have been complaining about him, they have got a gem. Maybe they are frustrated that he hasn't been using his full potential, in which case I totally understand.


What's frustrating is that he was injured repeatedly and permanently.
He's the kind of player who people talk worse and worse about the less he actually plays.

But when he plays, he means danger for the opposition, it's just a fact.

He's still a shadow of the explosive, confident kid he used to be, and most things he did didn't come off, but if he can just stay fit for a number of performances I'm sure he'll be back to showing what a spectacular, dangerous and unpredictable talent he is.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:45 pm

@rincon wrote:
@Warrior wrote:
@BarcaLearning wrote:This game really shows how much work Pirlo needs to do, the players just seem to be suffering and dont know what to do, or cant pull off what he demanded of them? I feel for ya'll Juve fans, not used to this at all, but I guess being so ambitious with the manager changes, it was also a gamble and will take time.



Since 2017 Juve has fake ambition. The essence of the club is changing. It's all about image, what will give us more likes on social media. Powder to the eyes.

Allegri was available after a 1 year break. He was the obvious choice. Yet we took someone who had zero experience. How else can we explain that ?

We might have to call him back soon if Pirlo doesn't pull it together

Not sure whether back to Allegri is the best idea now, for all the parties involved.
Just get Pochettino in and be done with it. Back to winning the league easily, and after a while surely a team to be back in contention for CL.
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