The Coronavirus Thread - Part 3

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Post by The Demon of Carthage Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:26 pm

Thank you, Bill. I didn't know that.

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Post by RealGunner Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:36 pm

The vaccine will be given to all the old people first and those with health conditions.

People below 30 will be the last to get it and we are looking at summer. So still quite a while till we have some normality.

But it's great news. We have this pfizer one as well as an oxford vaccine coming soon.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:29 pm

Our mentally retarded PM wants  to veto the EU budget so it may actually end up being reality that we don't get the vaccine at all or much later without funding :facepalm:

If it becomes reality, we will miss out on Erasmus, over 70 billion euros and much more in the next few years.

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Post by Babun Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:08 pm

@RealGunner wrote:The vaccine will be given to all the old people first and those with health conditions.

People below 30 will be the last to get it and we are looking at summer. So still quite a while till we have some normality.

But it's great news. We have this pfizer one as well as an oxford vaccine coming soon.

Doctors, policemen, nurses etc. first then risk groups but yeah I hope we'll get some come March.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:10 pm

Former US presidents Barack Obama, George W Bush and Bill Clinton have volunteered to have their Covid-19 vaccinations be publicly televised.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177741

Facebook comments: "tHeY gOt ThE rEaL oNeS"

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Post by JespSwe Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:40 am

@Vibe wrote:
@JespSwe wrote:Vibe, really sorry to hear that its taken a toll on u bro. stay strong and hopefully the vaccine in europe will ease the situation but i feel ya bro. i cant imagine the mental toll it has taken on u and many other hard working doctors nurses and staffs, cant thank enough for ur efforts. arigato mucho  :bow:  Heart



I am young and in good shape, I can keep up phisically and it doesn't strike me mentally in terms of changing my positive outlook on life.

What does affect me is mental fatigue... I find myself doing really stupid shit while my mind is somewhere else lately. My job here is different that what it is in normal countries, there's a lot more responsibility and often there is no doctor around so I have to make hard decisions, prioritise because there is not enough resources for everyone, decide courses of therapy on my own. There are 2 or 3 of us handling 40 patients who are all in different rooms and different floors and we are all they have, you have to think about 50 different things simultaneously and run all the time.

I just hope it ends soon, stay safe everyone. Most people just think naah, it won't happen to me, until it does. I've had people arrive in great shape, laughing and joking just disappear in front of me in a matter of hours. A nurse, just one year older than me died just a couple days ago.

i am sorry to hear that Vibe ; i have to admit that no one except doctors nurses who are on site witnessing all this while doing in their upmost abilities would know the real travesty of this.
hope this ends soon in 2021 so u can take well deserved vacation to get ur mind somewhere else peaceful.

gambatte
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Post by Vibe Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:31 pm

Jesp my biggest support since covid started :bow:
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Post by JespSwe Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:00 am

@Vibe wrote:Jesp my biggest support since covid started :bow:


haha ur all good mate, ^O^ we are all here if u need anything
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Post by Myesyats Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:12 pm



historic budget :bow:

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Post by Babun Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:41 pm

Good, austeriy won't help this time around. By the way, German gouvernment is being super unprofessional right now. They postpone the total lockdown for after christmas even though all signs point to something has to be done now.
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Post by Babun Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:28 am

"We've currently identified over 1,000 cases with this variant predominantly in the South of England although cases have been identified in nearly 60 different local authority areas.

"We do not know the extent to which this is because of the new variant but no matter its cause we have to take swift and decisive action which unfortunately is absolutely essential to control this deadly disease while the vaccine is rolled out."

England's Chief Medical Officer Prof Chris Whitty said current coronavirus swab tests would detect the new variant that has been found predominantly in Kent and neighbouring areas in recent weeks.

The changes or mutations involve the spike protein of the virus - the part that helps it infect cells, and the target Covid vaccines are designed around.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55308211
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Post by Blue Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:18 am

“ Harald Schmidt, an expert in ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania, said that it is reasonable to put essential workers ahead of older adults, given their risks, and that they are disproportionately minorities. “Older populations are whiter, ” Dr. Schmidt said. “Society is structured in a way that enables them to live longer. Instead of giving additional health benefits to those who already had more of them, we can start to level the playing field a bit.”

Holy shit, I can’t believe this is on the NYT and recommendation made to the CDC. This is Eugenics, choosing who lives and dies based on race is evil. Don’t get me wrong there is an argument to be made Elderly vs essential workers, but not on race.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-first.html
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Post by Babun Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:38 am

@Blue wrote:“ Harald Schmidt, an expert in ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania, said that it is reasonable to put essential workers ahead of older adults, given their risks, and that they are disproportionately minorities. “Older populations are whiter, ” Dr. Schmidt said. “Society is structured in a way that enables them to live longer. Instead of giving additional health benefits to those who already had more of them, we can start to level the playing field a bit.”

Holy shit, I can’t believe this is on the NYT and recommendation made to the CDC. This is Eugenics, choosing who lives and dies based on race is evil. Don’t get me wrong there is an argument to be made Elderly vs essential workers, but not on race.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-first.html

The dude would go behind the bars in Germany.
The strategy to vaccinate the elderly first when the amount of the stuff is limited is wrong though. More lives can be saved and infections prevented by vaccinating hospital staff, policemen and essential workers in general then active young working people who are in risk groups like a 50y old bus driver with diabetis who can't stay home to earn money for example. Elderly usually stay indoors in carehomes or with their families, they'd be next on the list.
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Post by RealGunner Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:30 pm

Getting bad again in the UK

3rd national lockdown is imminent here
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Post by RealGunner Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:27 pm

The new strain is more infectious (but not dangerous).
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Post by Babun Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:20 am

@RealGunner wrote:The new strain is more infectious (but not dangerous).

More infectious means more dangerous because the hospitals would be filled faster, the mean number of lethal outcomes over time would grow and the possibility of a further mutation which would render the current vaccines useless would become a reality.
That part of England should be completly isolated from the rest of the country/world for the time being.
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Post by Art Morte Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:50 am

I read they estimate the new strain to be even 70% more contagious, which sounds an incredibly big increase to a layman. Who knows how accurate that estimate is, though.

I can't help thinking that a month-long strict lockdown (and not only in Britain) in order to buy time for vaccines would be smart. Now that we have vaccines seems like the right time to me to make one more major effort to curb the spread of the virus.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:54 am

what new strain ffs

what's going on
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Post by Babun Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:09 pm

@Art Morte wrote:I read they estimate the new strain to be even 70% more contagious, which sounds an incredibly big increase to a layman. Who knows how accurate that estimate is, though.

I can't help thinking that a month-long strict lockdown (and not only in Britain) in order to buy time for vaccines would be smart. Now that we have vaccines seems like the right time to me to make one more major effort to curb the spread of the virus.

R0 is a good measure for the layman. Influenza has got an R0 of around 2 which means one infected makes two further people sick in average.
To give you an idea, assume at the start there're 10 infected people with R0=2 per day. After 10 days, we'd have 10*2^10 equals 10240 infected from the initial 10. The current R0 of the Wuhan virus is kept around 1.2 - 1.5 with all the restrictive measures around. 70% increase means, 1.2 *1.7 = 2.04, 1.5*1.7 = 2.55. That would make the Wuhan virus more infectious than a common influenza (R0 of 2.04 - 2.55).
Notice: There's natural immunity in the population against the common influenza so a R0=2 shows how much of a supervirus influenza is. Wuhan virus has got such a high R0 mostly due to the low immunity in general population. The virus can be very well contained with vaccines + restrictive measures. What we don't want is another, more dangerous type of influenza circulating seasonally that's why the affected areas in England should be banned from traveling anywhere hard.
@Hapless_Hans wrote:what new strain ffs

what's going on

Wuhan virus is on the way to become a new influenza like seasonal sickness with very dangerous outcomes.
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Post by Art Morte Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:16 pm

I understand the numbers, I meant that suddenly a 70% more contagious virus sounds like a huge leap. Like, I didn't know that viruses mutate so powerfully that a new strain can be as much as 70% "better".
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Post by Babun Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:22 pm

@Art Morte wrote:I understand the numbers, I meant that suddenly a 70% more contagious virus sounds like a huge leap. Like, I didn't know that viruses mutate so powerfully that a new strain can be as much as 70% "better".

Influenza is the living example of a supervirus. Even with immunity in the population, it cannot be contained. Wuhan virus could very well head down that road, lots of room for improvement. 70% leap is nothing because most of the people aren't immune.
An interesting read:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/pandemic-timeline-1930-and-beyond.htm
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Post by Myesyats Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:04 pm

https://www.dw.com/en/anti-vaxxers-should-forgo-ventilators-german-doctor-says/a-55996805

A German geneticist has said those who turn down the new COVID-19 vaccine should carry a note also refusing intensive care treatment. He also said medical decisions should not be left to conspiracy theorists.


Germans as always with the factz

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Post by Art Morte Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:14 pm

I'm all for non-vaxxers not getting ICU treatment, however... I have several allergies, none of them serious, like eating a thing wouldn't kill me or anything, just an itchy throat, but because I have a few allergies it's been disappointing to read about these serious reactions some people with allergies have got from the vaccine. If someone with more serious allergies doesn't want the vaccine after these news, I would understand that.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:25 pm

@Myesyats wrote:https://www.dw.com/en/anti-vaxxers-should-forgo-ventilators-german-doctor-says/a-55996805

A German geneticist has said those who turn down the new COVID-19 vaccine should carry a note also refusing intensive care treatment. He also said medical decisions should not be left to conspiracy theorists.


Germans as always with the factz


What a fucking arsehole

hope he gets kicked out of the so-called "ethics commission"

but he won't, the reality is Germany's covid response has, on the level of political messaging and decision making, a clueless mess in which the only consistency was smugness, the desire to conform, the desire to feel been important for following orders, and the urge to call oneself better than other countries. Everything else has been very inconsistent, inefficient, at times mismanaged and messy.
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Post by Myesyats Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:31 pm

There's several types of vaccine now, though and some of them surely must be safe for folks with allergies. My dad has the same issue. I'm sure that'll be explained before the vax arrive.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:35 pm

As much as I would love for everybody to get vaccinated, it must never become compulsory. People should have the right to either take the vaccine or not, and medical care should be available for all, even the anti-vaxxers. You can't leave them to die or refuse to give them intensive care treatment just because they refused to get vaccinated.
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