Manchester United Part V/Ole Sack Watch

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Post by Thimmy Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:16 pm

Partey looked very good for Arsenal, in my opinion, and he's barely played with this team. If he continues like this, Arsenal may have a gem on their hands. I imagine he'll only get better.

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Post by Myesyats Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:40 pm

Partey was always amazing for Atletico, you guys are only waking up on him now???

I wanted him at Barca 3 years back.

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Post by Thimmy Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:48 pm

@Myesyats wrote:Partey was always amazing for Atletico, you guys are only waking up on him now???

I wanted him at Barca 3 years back.


I’m well aware of that. I was just replying to Arq’s observation that they fielded a midfield without the likes of Xhaka. It’s true that they didn’t field their assumed best midfield, but Partey impressed me.

It’s not given that a player transfers to a different country and league, and looks comfortable right away. Early signs suggest that he’s the type of player they’ve been lacking in midfield. Good for them.

Partey has always looked like a potentially great player, but I think he also showed occasional signs of being a headless chicken at Atletico. If he’s managed to iron out that flaw, then Arsenal have done some great business.
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Post by Jay29 Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:11 pm

People disrespecting the Pyramid Pirlo. Mad

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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:09 am

@Arquitecto wrote:Pogba really is shit Ive realised.

Arsenal did not even have Xhaka or a respectable midfield yesterday and the mf still did nothing beyond mucking it up.


Complete and utter flop.


I’m telling you and I keep saying this. Everyone attacks me on Reddit especially and GL when I say this. have been saying this for years. He sucks when he’s played deep. He’s a number 10 and that’s his position. But nah let’s play him deep because he’s 6’3 and dark like vieira.

He’s not a box to box, and he’s not a DM. He’s a CAM or best behind the striker, if you can’t play him further forward then sell him. Imagine if Isco or james played DM.
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Post by Thimmy Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:57 am

I’m not sure what you mean, Fennec. I’ve been called obsessive on here for at least 3 years for pointing out Pogba’s flaws and limitations, so I understand that part, but he started as a CM in a 4-4-2 diamond against Arsenal, and was shifted to the left wing in the second half.

Him supposedly being the greatest box to box player in the world, was argued to be his greatest strength on here for the longest time, and he has not been playing as a DM in recent time.

Playing him as an AM ahead of Bruno Fernandes would be a big fucking risk considering how rarely he performs well, and how much more hard-working and consistent Bruno is. He’s been hit or miss in that position, as well. You tell me how he’s supposed to be utilized.

From what I’ve observed, United have the players to be an occasionally threatening, counter-attacking team, but don’t have the quality or versatility to be a title contender. Some players have gone in and out over the past 5 years or so, but that hasn’t changed. They still have forwards and midfielders that are limited, inconsistent, and have to be played to their strengths in order to shine. Maybe a Allegri or Pochettino can rectify that, only time will tell.
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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:21 am

He’s been played in a double pivot until the last two games or so.

Forget left mid or box to box. When I see him play he’s playing far too deep. Number 10 or advanced midfielder or he should find a new team. I’m dead serious.

I rarely see him play bad in Bruno’s position. I think Bruno had a shit game too. And I don’t think he’s as good as people think he is.
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Post by Thimmy Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:15 am

I don’t think Bruno is quite as good as some people seem to think he is either, but by Man United’s recent standards, he’s about as good as it gets. I think he can be a very useful player for them, but he needs better quality around him.

I don’t remember which games they were, but Pogba played as an AM for a brief period of time before Bruno arrived, and it didn’t work out, either for him, nor for the team.

If I remember correctly, him not being match fit or having just returned from injury were some of the excuses I read on here. I don’t believe his fitness levels was the issue, personally.
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Post by jibers Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:23 pm

@FennecFox7 wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:Pogba really is shit Ive realised.

Arsenal did not even have Xhaka or a respectable midfield yesterday and the mf still did nothing beyond mucking it up.


Complete and utter flop.


I’m telling you and I keep saying this. Everyone attacks me on Reddit especially and GL when I say this. have been saying this for years. He sucks when he’s played deep. He’s a number 10 and that’s his position. But nah let’s play him deep because he’s 6’3 and dark like vieira.

He’s not a box to box, and he’s not a DM. He’s a CAM or best behind the striker, if you can’t play him further forward then sell him. Imagine if Isco or james played DM.


Problem is he played as the deepest MF for France in 2018. The problem is people's expectations tbh. When I speak to people they expect him to dribble like Zidane, assist like Xavi, tackle like Kante and score like Lampard.

At Juve he played on the left side of a Diamond MF and then played on the left side when Allegri switched to a 433 still. He also played a ssecond striker basically with Morata up fron tin some games. Sometimes he played as the wide left MF in a 442.

Pogba's best position is for me left MF in a 352 so he's basically playing a sort of playing in that left half space. Is it worth OGA accommodating him? I think a coach with a better tactical plan will use him better. OGS is basically sit back and counter. United have no direction and it's basically do what you want. Under coaches with clear tactical instructions like Conte, Allegri even Mou in the first season, Pogba did well.

I still think he's a great player and if Poch becomes United's manager I think most people might see it as well. He needs very clear tactical instructions in a cohesive system like almost every player.
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Post by Thimmy Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:34 pm

Be honest, did you ever watch Man United under Mourinho? Or under «OGA» for that matter? hmm

You could’ve figured out that their go-to tactic is to sit back and counter, purely by reading my rants about Rashford.

@Jibers wrote: Under coaches with clear tactical instructions like Conte, Allegri even Mou in the first season, Pogba did well.

The season where they ended 6th? That’s some strong BS Laughing
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Post by Glory Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:03 pm

Walking corpse now. His latest press conference is Moyes level depressing and defeatist. Blaming Covid, blaming travel. Fucking excuses left right and center. He is all prepared for the sack it seems.

Terrific human being and a true legend but a very limited manager. There are a lot of positives tho with his stint. Has provided a proper foundation to work on after the shitshow that was Mourinho. His transfers have been excellent barring ofc Maguire. But can understand that transfer, not for such obscene money tho surely. Has given youth a proper chance and have had positive influence on some of players, like Rashford and Martial and Fred. They need that next coach now to push them. Our academy too is really impressive now. Anyway hope the board atleast for once dont dither and remove swiftly after tomorrow so that Pochetino or whoever it is going to come can get the int break to work on.

Hopefully the club is looking at not just Poch tho. I personally would prefer Southampton's coach over Poch tbh.

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Post by Jay29 Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:41 pm

Whatever Ole's calibre as a coach, United's incoherent transfer strategy will continue to let managers down.

For instance, Ole said in interviews he wanted to play a high tempo game with lots of width, but since taking over he hasn't been given any wingers nor attacking full backs, except Telles. He's tried 3-5-2 and 4-4-2 diamond with Shaw and Wan-Bissaka at full-back, neither of whom are effective going forward. The 4-2-3-1 he played last season was exciting in patches, but it runs into the same problem where the full-backs can't take proper advantage of the inside movements of Rashford and Greenwood.

United's ability to create space in attacking areas for their talented attackers and midfielders is therefore lacking. They've looked good against teams who push up and afford them space, but obviously they're not going to face that every game. The decision to try and sign Sancho was the correct one, but the failure to secure alternative targets was their downfall and ultimately that's not Ole's fault.

Same problem for Van Gaal and Mourinho and Pochettino as well if they go for him.

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Post by Arquitecto Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:14 am

Im come to the conclusion Ole is actually quite a talented and astute tactician. But Ive also understood he is also poor at communicating what he desires in his players and is quite indecisive at it is, weighing outcomes rather poorly. It is also obvious the club are not injecting what is needed for whatever vision he has, and can be rather timid in expressing them on the pitch.

As a man he is terrific no doubt and inspires quite a lot in the younger players. United just isn't the club he needed at this stage of his career and I hope he goes out with useful experience on his back rather than humiliation.
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Post by Thimmy Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:40 am

I think Jay summed up the situation quite well. Now, I can’t predict what kind of effect Pochettino might have on this team, but I really don’t understand how some are capable of confidently claiming that he’ll just come in and fix things, like Jibers seems to suggest. The same thing was said about Zidane, and I’m still quite baffled by how many people thought re-appointing him would be some kind of miracle solution. In my eyes, Pogba has been more of a problem for United, than an asset, ever since he joined them. I don’t know how, or why, anyone would assume that Poch would be able to change that.

Purely based on charm, I’m much more of a fan of Poch than Ole, but Tottenham aside, how did Poch convince people that he’s more capable than past managers, of making this Man United side a title challenging team? The guy managed the strongest Southampton side I’ve ever seen, and still managed to lose to Ole’s relegation bound, Cardiff. And that Cardiff side is one of the worst teams I’ve ever seen.

Poch moved on to Tottenham, and experienced a moderate level of success, but was eventually let down by a crop of players that wasn’t performing. How do people so confidently claim that the manager is the be all, end all of results and performances, when there are clear issues in the actual team they manage, that would suggest otherwise?

I know I’ll probably get the obsessed with Ole treatment again, but it’s hard for me to say nothing when I read tactical analysis by all of the experts on here, that boil him down to some inexperienced guy who’s ability is limited to telling them to «go out there and have fun», or «just counter-attack, I have no plan B».

Even if I was outright opposed to Ole, I think he showed at humble, Molde that he at least has some degree of tactical acumen and ability to out-smart his opponent managers. One may point out that the Norwegian league is a farmer’s league or whatever, but that doesn’t mean that moving to an assumed more difficult league, restricts one’s ability to apply similar tactics, provided the players are capable of it.
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:34 am

He does have it Thimmy there is no doubt and one has to measure United based on what they have and the current realistic expectations they can have, rather than what they were almost a decade ago. More so the players he has at his disposal (bar some key exceptions like Bruno) simply do not suit what he wants and he has adapted but only so much fruitful results that will come out of it.


Ultimately he can represent a successful if not sacrificial transition period for United to which given the soldier he is for the club he loves, he'll do but there wont be a turn around anytime soon or if at all.
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Post by Thimmy Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:13 am

@Arquitecto wrote:Ultimately he can represent a successful if not sacrificial transition period for United to which given the soldier he is for the club he loves, he'll do but there wont be a turn around anytime soon or if at all.


Well, they may have improved in some aspects, but I think the fundamental issues are still there. There's still no director of sports in sight, and they're being conservative about their spending on players that may strengthen positions that need it. Ironically, their most expensive signing under Ole, has been the most underwhelming one.

Man United strikes me as a club where the manager has to adapt to the team and the culture, not the other way around. There's no time for the manager to build a philopshopy, and even if there was, he would have to apply that philosophy to players that may not necessarily fit into it.

It's a historically successful club, and their fans are about as entitled and impatient as that of Real Madrid. Quick-fire solutions always seem to be deemed the most sensible choice, as a means of rectifying the last, quick-fire solution.

I don't doubt that there may be other managers out there who'd be able to steer the ship better than Ole, but at some point, the club and it's fans will no longer be able to distract themselves from the primary cause of stagnation in the post- Ferguson era, and I don't believe that cause will be traced back to any of their failed managers, but rather how the club is being run.
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Post by Glory Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:52 pm

By this point I assumed it was an foregone conclusion here on GL that United board was incompetent. So, I dont know why you guys are still acting as if its some breaking news. Its long been established. The Glazers are NOT going to go or Woodward is NOT going to appoint a DOF. And regardless of whatever we do, as fans its going to continue. So, the next best thing to do is to get a manager who can work around within the confines and produce results and also in case of a big global club like United, performances consistently. Ole is not a lot of good things, but on the whole, he has come up short.  We have absolutely no idea if Poch can do it either. But what else can we do at this point. The damage is already done with a shambles of a transfer window. Now all we can do is to replace the only one we can replace and hope for a turnaround. We cant sack the board or the players now, can we?

Also in which big club would someone like Ole get this much time. If he was at Madrid etc, he would have been sacked twice by now already. So Thimmy, stop comparing spoilt RM fans to ours. We are not demanding much from OGS. We know the board has dealt him a hard hand, but he is a friking legend at this club and we want him to succeed badly. We, somewhat sensible fans are expecting only the minimum from him. A top 4 finish and slow and steady progress. With the players he has got at this club, even without those missed transfers, I dont think its that much of an ask.

Re: his tactics, yes I do agree he has got some tricks up his sleeve. Like the PSG game for one, he changed formation midway and made us dominate that game in the 2nd half. So, he is not just some random PE teacher as people make out. But its simply not enough at a club like ours, and at a league like the PL where you have teams like Brighton and Southampton, let alone the big boys have excellent coaches within their ranks.

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Post by Firenze Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:16 pm

Crashing out in the CL groups. Sacked in the morning 100%

Welcome to Manchester Pochettino
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Post by M99 Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:04 pm

Welcome back fam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny2aJpD9F4A
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Post by Thimmy Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:39 pm

I kind of wish Van Gaal would return, if only to witness the chaos it would lead to, but I'd hate to actually watch his football again Laughing I'd much rather watch Pochettino's football, although I think he would eventually get sacked as well.

Either way, Man United lack quality in every joint of the team, and I still think Rashford is vastly overrated on here, despite being so limited in his set of skills.
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Post by Kaladin Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:18 pm

If i were United, i wouldn't hire Poch

United need an iron clad manager with proven commendations, Poch would be a flimsy choice

It is simply a crime that Allegri doesn't have a job in 2020, then again, i'm unsure if he would fit in England what with the language and culture, but there has been some flirting with him and Arsenal/Chelsea in the past.

Allegri would be a solid choice because he would also employ a 4-3-3/4-3-1-2 formation, which would reinforce United's midfield - a decade old problem now.

He would also know how to get the best out of Pogba. However, he would require a holding midfielder in the vain Brozovic for this to work, his contract also runs until 2022. In addition to a defender in Koulibaly, United need to fix their defense somehow.

Rashford-Martial
Bruno
Pogba-Brozovic-VdB
Telles-Koulibaly-Maguire-Wank
De Gea

It seems like a very workable team, it all depends on who United hires, though if i were a United fan i wouldn't want Poch.
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Post by Firenze Sat May 08, 2021 11:14 am

Second in the PL and an EL final (where the team are big favourites)

Thoughts? CL group elimination still stings tbh but I'd have taken that if you offered it to me at the start of the season, had no faith we would even get CL next season

team hasn't looked impressive at any real point of the season and in the league we've benefitted from the usual top 4 contenders being below par

another season of ole at the wheel it seems, I hope we get some key replacements, time to give up on Martial completely
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Post by Kaladin Sat May 08, 2021 12:52 pm

Penandes effect, you're still a shit team but even a bad manager can make 2nd if he gets 2 penalties every game
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Post by S Fri May 28, 2021 9:03 am



Incredible how these muppets are doing everything to blame everybody but Ole. I don't understand how a coach as mediocre as this guy gets so much protection from the board and ex players. Atleast Wenger earned that kind of backing after falling off.

What has this guy achieved? This is the longest trophy drought for United since the late 70s. Keeps bottling big games and knockout ties, does the bare minimum of what's expected off him, yet these clowns think he's making progress...

It's a tragedy what's happening at United. You have genuine winners like Conte sitting free, ready to take another team to the top but nah, lets stick with Ole's mediocrity. I'll bet my ass it's going to be another inconsistent season for them where they'll be challenging for a top 4 spot at most.

Ole's a beta. Period.
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Post by Clutch Fri May 28, 2021 9:22 am

Ole is the perfect manager for the glazers tbh. Someone like Conte wouldnt last half a season with them.

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Post by El Gunner Fri May 28, 2021 9:38 am

it's only because he is a former United player as well lol
all good though, because the rest of us fans love for him to stay as long as possible
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