Ronald Koeman - welcome to FC Barcelona!

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Post by neuro11 Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:39 pm

Anyone would have started this kind of team if available. This is definitely a good team to contest for top 4 positions. but you made too many assumptions. the squad is thin. Pedri and Alba are already out. Dembele and Fati are not back yet. considering how fatigued Busi and Pique are they might not run the whole season. we may run the risk of losing more players of this eleven. I dont think any coach can do well with the current squad.

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Post by alexjanosik Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:49 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@alexjanosik wrote:

I disagree about letting Koeman go but lets assume we let him go. Who would you want? Options are not exactly great at the moment.
The top managers are all locked down. We could gamble and go for Xavi. I am the biggest Xavi fan but not sure he is ready for the top job at a club like Barca. He needs to get some experience outside of Qatar.
Zidane is out of a job but he would never coach us.
Conte? He is a good coach but creates problems wherever he goes and has just left Inter due to a lack of investments. Doubt he would come to us when we are letting players go. Nevermind signing anyone.
The one interesting name is Klopp. Heard he is not happy with the lack of investments at Liverpool. If there is one coach out there who can get us back to the top, it is Klopp. He can work miracles with a shoestring budget. But, given he is unhappy at Liverpool over the lack of investments, doubt he would come to us. He is surely tired by now of long term projects. But, feel he could be enticed by the prospect of coaching us and bringing us back to the top. I have not been the greatest fan of his style but have grown to like it grudgingly. He is a modern coach, brings through players and has a proven track record. Doubt we go for him though.


I dont know Klopp would come. He just doesnt strike me as a Barca coach. I have no questions about his ability mind you, I just dont see it for some reason.

My choices.


Xavi or Ten Haag. I like both of their ideas alot from what I have seen. Obviously I know Ten Haag's ideas translate to Europe, but what Xavi is doing is not so different to many top coaches in Europe today. My question with them isnt tactical, I believe both are up to task on that. They both have clear ideas I can recognize and I like the sound of.

It is the unknown, their personality, how they relate to players, the force of their will that I have no idea about and obviously that is where the risk comes.

Dont know if you addressed this in other thread yet, but why do you want Koeman to stay?


Hmm. Why do you think Klopp wont join if we offered and he was on the market? I think the only reason he wont join is if we were unwilling to invest. Thats the rumored reason he is unhappy at Liverpool. Its a different style his football. But its attacking football and his football incorporates everything which encapsulates modern football. High intensity, high octane and high pressing. Key question is can he also incorporate our philosophy. I think he might be able to. On Xavi and Ten Hag and their ideas, yes I agree. But, ideas are only a minute part of the job imo. I am a bit hesitant after watching a lot of ex players with ideas fail at clubs. After Pep, lot more tried to get in and so far most have failed. Likes of Seedorf, Pirlo, Lampard, Arteta. List is long. Only Zidane has made it. I feel tactics and ideas are a small part of the job and a lot more goes into managing a club. Which is why I am not too keen on Xavi right now.

On Koeman, I would like him to stay yes. I think his leadership has been outstanding during a time of unprecedented crisis. Last season was super depressing and we seemed leaderless at the corporate level. Bartomeu was on the way out, we had the whole Messi saga. The whole club was looking for leadership and I think Koeman provided that and continues to provide to a lesser extent under Laporta. He understood that the high wage earners needed to go and actively participated in letting them go.
On the pitch, given the circumstances, dont think anyone could have done better. He delivered a trophy during a great crisis, was in contention for the league and got into the knockouts. I dont know about other Barca fans but I am realistic and think we punched above our weight given all things. Yes, big game results didnt go our way but willing to give the benefit.
Last but not least, Koeman brought about a youth revolution. He sent a message out that the overpaid oldies werent guarnateed spots. Brought through a bunch of youngsters including from La Masia. Same Masia which has been neglected for the past decade. That is a very positive message to all the kids in La Masia who are looking to make the step up. Not to mention talented kids across Europe who might be looking to move. They might consider us seriously knowing that they will get chances under Koeman. Am thinking it was a factor in Demir joining us. Also, dont think there are good alternatives to Koeman.

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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:06 pm

Sooo.. Koeman is good for us, ok. And what should we be doing next? Drop all the players over like 22 right? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Post by The Franchise Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:22 pm

@Casciavit wrote:Dani what do you think of Sarri?



I think he is a tremendous coach, theoretically perhaps more in reality. His idea of football is unique and special, as I said in the other thread, I have never seen better football in the stadium than watching his Napoli.

On paper, I would for us to play with his ideas. the fans would love it and I think it suits us so well. Especially this current group of younger players, who could really interpret these ideas in a good way. As you explained, it might work now but also in terms of a transition between him and Xavi.

How does he fit in though? Does his personality work in Barca?

If I am in charge and I draw up a list of choices where I don't have to consider anything except how good a coach I think they are, he would be very high on the list.
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Post by The Franchise Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:43 pm

@alexjanosik wrote:

Hmm. Why do you think Klopp wont join if we offered and he was on the market? I think the only reason he wont join is if we were unwilling to invest. Thats the rumored reason he is unhappy at Liverpool. Its a different style his football. But its attacking football and his football incorporates everything which encapsulates modern football. High intensity, high octane and high pressing. Key question is can he also incorporate our philosophy. I think he might be able to. On Xavi and Ten Hag and their ideas, yes I agree. But, ideas are only a minute part of the job imo. I am a bit hesitant after watching a lot of ex players with ideas fail at clubs. After Pep, lot more tried to get in and so far most have failed. Likes of Seedorf, Pirlo, Lampard, Arteta. List is long. Only Zidane has made it. I feel tactics and ideas are a small part of the job and a lot more goes into managing a club. Which is why I am not too keen on Xavi right now.

On Koeman, I would like him to stay yes. I think his leadership has been outstanding during a time of unprecedented crisis. Last season was super depressing and we seemed leaderless at the corporate level. Bartomeu was on the way out, we had the whole Messi saga. The whole club was looking for leadership and I think Koeman provided that and continues to provide to a lesser extent under Laporta. He understood that the high wage earners needed to go and actively participated in letting them go.
On the pitch, given the circumstances, dont think anyone could have done better. He delivered a trophy during a great crisis, was in contention for the league and got into the knockouts. I dont know about other Barca fans but I am realistic and think we punched above our weight given all things. Yes, big game results didnt go our way but willing to give the benefit.
Last but not least, Koeman brought about a youth revolution. He sent a message out that the overpaid oldies werent guarnateed spots. Brought through a bunch of youngsters including from La Masia. Same Masia which has been neglected for the past decade. That is a very positive message to all the kids in La Masia who are looking to make the step up. Not to mention talented kids across Europe who might be looking to move. They might consider us seriously knowing that they will get chances under Koeman. Am thinking it was a factor in Demir joining us. Also, dont think there are good alternatives to Koeman.

On Klopp - I really don't know. I think maybe it is just the vibe I get from his personality. Call it a hunch, I think he would be reluctant to coach Barca. Even when he left Dortmund, he really could have gone anywhere he so chose and he ended up going to a pretty poor quality Liverpool side.

On Xavi - I didn't follow Seedorf so much but you are right about the Arteta and Pirlo, they all have in principle great ideas which did not translate. I will say part of that is Arteta and Pirlo have tried to implement ideas into a squad which lacks the quality to carry them out. Lampard I never thought was good, his ideas weren't horrible but he seemed to totally ignore the defensive aspects. I think Xavi has the potential to be better than all of these, simply because I think he was a smarter player and has a wider vision of football, plus would have a squad capable of carrying it out (assuming Fati is OK, Dembele can return and we can move on from the old guard)

Koeman - I don't think I disagree with any of what you have said here. I like all of those things about Koeman. But I think at the very top level games, the level we need to get to, we will not get there being tactically this poor and Koeman is showing no signs of improvement in this area.

He has shown a level of rigidness which worries me. He doesn't seem to learn any lessons from past games. The 532/5212 was brought in for a very specific game which worked but he never built on this idea at all. Then as flaws began to become more apparently, no changes came. I don't think I as a viewer should be able to identify so many tactical issues which never get fixed.

Our build up has not improved since his first days. In fact, going 3 at the back has only made this worse because he doesn't seem able to figure out the best way to position ourself and then rotate to open spaces. So that 3rd cb simply gets in the way more than it does help.

With Messi, I understood he had his hands tied on some level in terms of high pressure but I expected a consistent defensive plan which he has completely thrown out of the window in that Bayern game. Bayern are Bayern, we can lose no matter what we do, but I cannot accept such a performance where he intentionally set out in a negative, reactive way. I think he simply cannot ever match the elite of the elite at a tactical level and no matter what good he does, this will remain.

It seems 433 has been forced on him, but he isn't committed to it as we have now seen in the Bayern game. He changed immediately and for a plan, which had no hope in working.

I understand your overall view, but I guess we have a slightly different view on the importance of the tactical side of things. I know some coaches have won despite not being tactically right at the top, you could name Zidane for example. But I think this is the exception, not the rule and I think even Zidane was better than Koeman on that side of things.
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Post by alexjanosik Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:34 pm

I get what you are saying and ofcourse the tactical side, you know far more. So wont even contest or go there.
I just think Koeman is the right man for the job now. Just think of the two move which happened late summer. Let Griezman go after letting Messi go. And then let Emerson go within a month. And Koeman signed off on both. Why? Any other tactically superior coach would have thrown a tantrum cause they would be more interested in short term results.
Not Koeman. He is a club legend, genuinely deeply loves the club and cares for the long term future. He accepted the moves because of the long term impact and does his best with what he has.
Last but not least, let's not forget that Memphis signed only because of Koeman. No way he signs without Koeman. Same Memphis who is playing like a star.
I completely get your points on the tactical side and there may be many better coaches who can set us up better. But I dont think any of them bring what Koeman brings to the table for this version of Barcelona. Which is a Barcelona is deep crisis.

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Post by The Franchise Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:14 pm

Fair points, can't argue against them really. With Memphis, I'd say while Koeman was a factor, playing for Barca was a bigger one.

I think ultimately, we will stay for as long as results aren't so bad we risk finishing below 4th.

Considering what he has done well and who he is, as you said, a club legend, I'm not against that but I will say I don't think there will be a day we are back at our expected level with him in charge of it.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:27 pm

Surely on his last hours as a Barca manager. Overall quite a disappointing tenure, even if he had a very challenging set of circumstances.

When he came in I expected him to last 6 months and lasted three times that much, so in that sense he might have exceeded expectations.
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Post by Art Morte Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:30 am

Can they even afford to sack him and pay the severance? lol
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Post by Myesyats Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:29 am

So far Koeman has put the blame on the players after EVERY loss. Its like with Mourinho but 2x worse. I get the feeling he aims to be sacked. Its not like he can do better tactically, the limit has been reached, he can't figure out anything else. Its like hitting your head against a wall, theres no way forward with Koeman. And he only blames the players so he must have fallen out of favor with the dressing room already. He wants the 12m compensation and farewell. This has been a horrible appointment from the get go. Tactically outsmarted by a limping dog

It was apparent even before his appointment where his limitations start and end. Another disasterclass by Bartomeu. The man did everything in his power to ensure there was nothing left after him


The coach makes a huge difference, just look at the sequence of Solari, Lopetegui, Zidane and Ancelotti.

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Post by FennecFox7 Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:39 pm

I don’t understand koeman. With Memphis as the 9, he was developing something and played youngsters around him. Played a 4-2-3-1 that worked quite well (someone correct me if I’m wrong). The team was flawed, but in the first few games it was exciting watching them, they had a VERY young team with a lot of flair and players who played the Barca way, and the team was playing with a game plan

For some reason, he buys luuk de jong, and even worse, loans griezmann at the same time who would’ve actually worked better with a physical 9 just like he does with Benz/Giroud for France. And he reverts to Stone Age tactics for no reason and starts with a back 3. It really looks like self sabotage. As mediocre as braithwaite is, he deserved more games for now, he is the only player with game breaking pace and it forces defenses on the back foot. And he is a far better player then that excuse of a footballer koeman brought in.

He built his own bed im afraid.
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Post by The Franchise Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:57 pm

Shocking yet again. His comments are the game are hilariously poor. Blaming poor Nico for the first goal, alot of players have some fault there BTW, but regardless the biggest fault is Koeman for not having an counter pressure game which prevents these kinds of situations.

Starting 11 made no sense.

Couldn't be a 433, because we had not a single winger out there. So 4231 with De Jong on the inside right, what is this? Valverde level nonsense.

He displays all the signs of a lost coach, changing constantly and only holding firm on short term fixes.
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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:13 pm

Can I say again becos over the long run, youngsters dont get the results n goals? Obviously Luuk, Coutinho, n Depay also arent delivering, but the likes of Gavi, Demir arent either. Sorry Dani, I just dont see whats all the excitment about them youngsters. I really though I hardly saw Gavi at all in this game? Iirc, he subbed on Luul n Puig at the same time, taking off Mingueza, which was funny since we all know Puig plays forward passes in the middle only n Luuk needs crosses.

First few games of the season shouldnt be taken too much into account, many teams werent up to full level n I guess Barca started out wanting to prove we can sustain our game level, but as soon as vs any decent team reality comes out Razz
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Post by The Franchise Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:16 am

Well, Gavi has got a call up to the NT. How do you think he got it?

As a 17 year old, I see a very big talent there. I don't know what you expect from him. I'm looking at the bigger picture.

Goals and results now? Irrelevant to me.

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