Andrea Pirlo - Fatih Kamagümrük SK manager - "sono un allenatore vincente"

Luca wrote:In that case, Hans the visionary

I knew Pirlo would suck, didn’t think he would struggle for the top 4 though. That’s crazy. Even Sarri walked the league with a worse squad but he did have Mvp Dybala, Pirlo has Party Dybala

Everyone could see it

Cas called it too, before he started getting overexcited

Casciavit wrote:What an awful hire.

That you would hope for the best is understandable

Is the squad worse though? Chiesa, Kulusevski added?
The Pjanic Arthur swap was dumb as fuck ..

Milan fans called themselves underdogs against teams like Cagliari despite being on a 30 game unbeaten streak, they can’t really be trusted

Being awful and potentially missing the top 4 aren’t necessarily the same thing though. Even the worst manager should be able to make the top 4 with this Juventus squad

The squad added McKennie, Kulu, Morata, Chiesa and Arthur

The squad removed Matuidi, Higuain, Douglas Costa and Pjanic

The class of players in the second group are better but most were old and extremely past it

Of the players signed, Morata has done well statistically, Chiesa has been immense, McKennie is fine, Kulusevski has been poor, Arthur has been average

The real issue with the players this season is a lack of a fit Dybala. He’s just missed too many games after coming off his very best season

The second issue has been not investing into a proper midfielder for, I’ve lost count, whenever Juventus signed Pjanic

Certainly enough quality to easily make the top four in Serie A, even with a complete amateur coaching

How is this winemaking douche still managing this club?

What an absolute travesty. Should've been sacked right after the Porto game.

It's time everyone in the management resign. Pure self destruction if I've ever seen one.

Milan fans need to stop making fun of Pippo. Has made his peace managing a bottom midtable club and doing a semi decent job.

But this guy right here is the epitome of a coaching travesty. Needs to fuck right back to his vineyard. Destroyed his coaching career before it even began.

Just seen my first Juve game since the Porto match.

Apologies to Hans and any Juve fans who I sold dreams to.

They look genuinely awful. Even if offensively they're spaced out kind of well, they lack any actual ideas on the ball. Some of that comes down to the quality/profile of the players, but there's literally no attacking patterns. They aren't secure in possession at all, constantly losing easy balls. There's no probing, no patterns, and no creativity. It's been an entire season and they haven't shown any consistent run of form. Pirlo has done nothing to suggest he deserves another season. Even if he does have good ideas he just doesn't have the experience to apply them successfully and it's not like he's been tinkering to find new solutions either.

Selling my Pirlo stocks on a loss. Add him to the list of rookie managers who flopped at a big club.

Kommander giving yet another life to this winemaking jester

Wow

Pirlo smacking it on the Juve haters

The CL spots (based on upcoming runs) are on lock for Juve, Atalanta and Napoli

No way we manage to scrounge something off Juve and Atalanta, we are horrible

He needs to start benching Dybala, unfortunately. Dybala-Ronaldo in the pandemic 4-4-2 just doesn’t work. Two matches in a row that Dybala comes off and Juventus looks better and scored- although the impact of Morata was more noticeable against Fiorentina.

Easily the worst manager I’ve seen in my life though and I wish that wasn’t the case

Agreed with Cas.

That whole team is a disaster with a few talented players sprinkled in.

I really feel for Ronaldo. Guy gets blamed for not having a midfield or even a team to play off. Even morata tbh. There’s a low amount of confidence when they get the ball because the ones supplying the forwards are just not at the level needed. Mckennie is best as a b2b destroyer and yet he has to shoulder the burden for creativity lol

Not the moment to feel bad for Ronaldo, he has been dreadful for the last 5 matches or so, even including today's goals he is one of our worst players of the last month.

Everyone is off form, everyone is disorganised, the defense isn't well set up.

Surely we are the worst coached team in Serie A at the moment.

Pirlo is already sacked, only the season must end to announce it.

rincon wrote:
Pirlo is already sacked, only the season must end to announce it.

Even if he wins the Coppa in his first season, and qualifies for CL? That's harsh.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

rincon wrote:
Pirlo is already sacked, only the season must end to announce it.

Even if he wins the Coppa in his first season, and qualifies for CL? That's harsh.

No, it’s really not. It’s generous to give him the full season

Luca wrote:He needs to start benching Dybala, unfortunately. Dybala-Ronaldo in the pandemic 4-4-2 just doesn’t work. Two matches in a row that Dybala comes off and Juventus looks better and scored- although the impact of Morata was more noticeable against Fiorentina.

Easily the worst manager I’ve seen in my life though and I wish that wasn’t the case

You think he is worse than Del Neri and Ciro Ferrara was for you?

I think its recency bias, they finished 7th in a far weaker Serie A but of course they had Krasic/Diego instead of Ronaldo.

Probably not worse, but neither of those managers inherited the squad he did

The unfortunate thing with Pirlo is he’s gotten worse as the season progressed, which tells it all in my opinion. He’s also never put together two good matches in a row, he just couldn’t get the team going

People, myself included, gave him a lot of slack and cited things like Dybala being absent, now Dybala is back and starting and the team plays even worse during these two matches with him on the field

There’s a feeling like the players just don’t care when they’re on the field. There’s no urgency. Terrible goals are conceded, no leadership, there’s a reaction but always much later

We’ve had players with moments of brilliance like Cuadrado and Chiesa, solid seasons from Ronaldo and Morata, but this has been a really poor season and I think it’s okay to lose the scudetto, totally unacceptable to struggle for the top 4 like this with crucial points lost against teams like Fiorentina, Torino and Benevento

Even if Juventus win all the remaining games and the Coppa Italia, there’s no merit to Pirlo managing Juventus next season. He’s shown no growth and hasn’t gotten the best out of many of the players, despite his intent to play proactively and offensively, it just doesn’t look like it’s working out there. Granted, there’s also a ton of deadweight on this team but a lot of quality too

It was expected to lose the scudetto, not expected to be in a tied race for CL qualifications.

Ronaldo, Dybala, Chiellini, De Ligt, Bonucci, Chiesa, Cuadrado, Szczesny... its enough. There are enough champions to not have to worry this much about top 4.

A manager that does the basics, someone in the style of Ranieri or Pioli would have us play coherent football and qualify with a couple of matches to spare. A manager like Conte or Allegri would have us fighting for the title. With Pirlo things are far too uncertain. A brilliant match followed by a loss to Benevento.

I wouldn't say that he is worst than Del Neri or Ferrara. There are glimpses of hope with Pirlo. In fact I have some confidence for the coppa final because we have done well in big games, but today against Udinese it was the worst match that I've seen from Juve this season. You can't have such a bad performance in the run in when every match is a final. There is a fundamental problem there and there is no guarantee that next season it will all be fixed.

I think Pirlo is already sacked and the replacement is already chosen. It's just not normal for Juve to sack a manager in the middle of the season. Also, the caretaker would likely be Tudor, not like it inspires big confidence.

Allegri will likely return.

rincon wrote:
Surely we are the worst coached team in Serie A at the moment.

Forgot that Fonseca exists, Roma is the worst.

Very few players had a good season and a bunch of them had such a drastic drop of quality. Many games we look like Crotone we could not make 2 passes in a row, slow build-up that don't even produce quality scoring chance, not searching free spaces and making things easy for defenders. The lack of hustle, not making the opponent nervous until 90+3th minute and conceding goals every match. It was simply not Juve

Either Pirlo's tactics are too complicated or he is a poor motivator. Probably both in fact. Not only i want Pirlo out but also the men who hired him. On his first day we were all enthusiast because it's Pirlo, he got a free pass for several months because of who he is, but we are fans, it's not us who take decisions. Nedved/Paratici/whoever are paid to run the club and they should have known better than put a legend on the grill like that. It's been a real shit show and i'm being polite.

Allegri is the best man for the job

I’d say, in no order:
-Ronaldo
-Morata
-Chiesa
-Cuadrado
-Danilo
-De Ligt

All had good seasons. What’s missing? Not a single central midfielder has been good in my opinion. At times, A good match or two has happened but the team really has no spine between the defence and attack and it shows. It’s also exaggerated by Pirlo’s system

Casciavit wrote:Just seen my first Juve game since the Porto match.

...

it's not like he's been tinkering to find new solutions either.

Well, at least watch some games before commenting. Pirlo changes the formation every week. Which is one of the reasons why the players look clueless, but that's what happens when you are asked to rebuild, but also win. You're just gonna switch things around

Luca wrote:

The unfortunate thing with Pirlo is he’s gotten worse as the season progressed, which tells it all in my opinion.

That happened to the previous two guys, too. That's what tells it all, not Pirlo getting worse. It's the third fucking year in a row that this team starts well, showing new and interesting things on offense, only to look like the walking dead by December. That's what happens when you're not used to playing with intensity every week. You show up only against the big teams and, against the rest, you start playing only after they score and the adrenaline kicks in. And when you score and go ahead, you pull back, because that's what you've been conditioned to do for the five years when you were winning against farmers.

All we found out so far about Pirlo is that he's not good enough to rebuild and win during a pandemic. Agnelli being the irrational clown that he is, will probably ask the same things from the next guy, so good luck to whomever he/she may be. Hopefully, not the bald fraud.

Warrior wrote:Not only i want Pirlo out but also the men who hired him. On his first day we were all enthusiast because it's Pirlo, he got a free pass for several months because of who he is, but we are fans, it's not us who take decisions. Nedved/Paratici/whoever are paid to run the club and they should have known better than put a legend on the grill like that. It's been a real shit show and i'm being polite.

Allegri is the best man for the job

Agnelli is the one who hired Pirlo. He also never supported Sarri because he wasn't an aristocrat like him and then he fired because, surprise, the players rejected him.

Allegri is the least suited man for this job. He never built anything

adun101 wrote:

Luca wrote:

The unfortunate thing with Pirlo is he’s gotten worse as the season progressed, which tells it all in my opinion.

That happened to the previous two guys, too. That's what tells it all, not Pirlo getting worse. It's the third fucking year in a row that this team starts well, showing new and interesting things on offense, only to look like the walking dead by December. That's what happens when you're not used to playing with intensity every week. You show up only against the big teams and, against the rest, you start playing only after they score and the adrenaline kicks in. And when you score and go ahead, you pull back, because that's what you've been conditioned to do for the five years when you were winning against farmers.

All we found out so far about Pirlo is that he's not good enough to rebuild and win during a pandemic. Agnelli being the irrational clown that he is, will probably ask the same things from the next guy, so good luck to whomever he/she may be. Hopefully, not the bald fraud.

Allegri’s Juventus started slow many times but became a machine in the second half of the season

Sarri was never really suited to Juventus but he regressed only when Juventus already sealed the scudetto and had an incredibly hectic covid-schedule

Pirlo had some good ideas on the field and inconsistent results are natural given his experience and many new signings but the team just never played two good matches in a row. Obviously everyone wanted Pirlo to succeed, it’s a name you can’t be against but it hasn’t gone that way. What I did like is that players like Cuadrado and Chiesa truly have been incredible. They have freedom on the field and they produce most of the team’s offence

I’m a big Allegri fan but I was happy when he left because his cycle had clearly ended but given the last two seasons and managers, I would welcome him back but only if the squad is heavily changed. It’s just the right time now that the scudetto run has ended

I totally disagree that Allegri is the worst guy for the job, he's the easiest path to victory. His strategies are never complicated and he can actually manage in-game as his substitutions alone won us many games before. I don't want another theorist that comes here and screws us with his "ideas" and "system of play" that no player will buy.

Luca wrote:I’d say, in no order:
-Ronaldo
-Morata
-Chiesa
-Cuadrado
-Danilo
-De Ligt

All had good seasons. What’s missing? Not a single central midfielder has been good in my opinion. At times, A good match or two has happened but the team really has no spine between the defence and attack and it shows. It’s also exaggerated by Pirlo’s system

I tend to agree with that. Nobody else had a good season by Juve standards.

Never felt a cohesion or a team chemistry. I never rated any of our current midfielders that much but never i'd believe they fall this low. The main problem is playing all those slow, lazy, non-creative players at the same time, McKennie has a different profile and by coincidence we have more scoring chances (regardless of their quality) when he is there. It's the basics of football in my opinion. This team is like patchwork made by grandma no pieces go together. I hope it gets dismantled and only a few players and nobody from the staff return next season.

Luca wrote:

Allegri’s Juventus started slow many times but became a machine in the second half of the season

Sarri was never really suited to Juventus but he regressed only when Juventus already sealed the scudetto and had an incredibly hectic covid-schedule

Pirlo had some good ideas on the field and inconsistent results are natural given his experience and many new signings but the team just never played two good matches in a row. Obviously everyone wanted Pirlo to succeed, it’s a name you can’t be against but it hasn’t gone that way. What I did like is that players like Cuadrado and Chiesa truly have been incredible. They have freedom on the field and they produce most of the team’s offence

I’m a big Allegri fan but I was happy when he left because his cycle had clearly ended but given the last two seasons and managers, I would welcome him back but only if the squad is heavily changed. It’s just the right time now that the scudetto run has ended

You're remembering wrong.

Allegri's Juve started very well in the last season, but they regressed after the second game against United. Every game after was looking more and more like the one from yesterday. The previous year didn't end that well either, we almost lost the title to Napoli, after drawing to Crotone, losing to Napoli and almost losing to a 10 men Inter. And we were shit in three of the four CL knock out games

Sarri's Juve played a different kind of football until the first Inter. They realized they didn't have an opponent that year either, so they went back to Allegri's horizontal shit and defending the one goal advantage. As for him not being suited to Juve, that's just bullshit. If the players don't like him, then you tell them to go fuck themselves. The players didn't like Sacchi either, but the difference was that Berlusconi told them that it's Sacchi's way or the highway.

Pirlo had good stretches. The one from Cagliari to Fiorentina in the fall. We outplayed even Atalanta, especially until Arthur was on the field. We didn't win that game because of the ref and because Ronaldo and Morata sucked. We also played well during that January - February. That one was probably what killed us mentally. Chasing 9 points with a bunch of tough games close together was too much.

Warrior wrote:I totally disagree that Allegri is the worst guy for the job, he's the easiest path to victory. His strategies are never complicated and he can actually manage in-game as his substitutions alone won us many games before. I don't want another theorist that comes here and screws us with his "ideas" and "system of play" that no player will buy.

Maybe you're in denial. The cycle of this team is over and that's because, after the 2015 final, the club became obsessed with winning the CL and forgot about the future. The team was filled up with a ton of experienced veterans (Cuadrado, Manduzkic, Khedira, Pjanic, Matuidi, Costa, Hernanes, Dani Alves, Benatia, Higuain, DeSciglio, Howedes) that are now old, or have moved on, or sucked, but that haven't been properly replaced because, during the same period, there were brought in only like 5 players that were u23: Dybala, Berna, Pjaca, Rugani and Bentancur, with the latter one just because Boca didn't have money to pay for Tevez. On top of that, some of them have regressed to the point of being lost causes.

This team needs rebuilding, which has already started last summer, and Allegri hasn't shown anything to suggest that he can do that kind of job. In fact, he has under his belt a lot more player regressions than developments.