Andrea Pirlo allenatore della Juventus - occhio all' esonero

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Post by adun101 on Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:15 am

@M99 wrote:
Selling Mandzukic was a mistake imo. He still had a lot to offer.


He was finished. He warmed the bench in Qatar and now he has no team

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Post by Myesyats on Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:05 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Kaladin wrote:
Rename to sack watch please


It is already named sack watch
fucking casuals

He certainly wouldnt pass the B1 test
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Post by Robespierre on Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:56 am

@Arquitecto wrote:What confuses me more is how Suarez will pass a B1-B2 level test in Italiano given there's little to no indication that he speaks the language let alone at A1 level

I've known Spanish students to make Erasmus experience in Italy in my university career but yet they couldn't speak a word of Italian language
So it's clearly a fraud thing
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Post by rincon on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:42 pm

To give some updates. Sources close to Juve had been reporting that Pirlo was trying hybrid back 3 and back 4 systems, similar to Allegri's first 2 seasons. Pirlo had said that generally he prefers 433 but that its all about the player characteristics. So naturally the back 3 was in play.

We had a friendly with more players in the dquad now vs Novara. 5-0.

Basically playing a flexible 343. He commented afterwards how he attacked with 3 at the back and defended with 4 in the first half, while for the second half he stuck to 3 in both phases to test different alternatives.

So exactly as journalists were reporting it hinges on using a fullback as a third CB. Allegri did the opposite with Barzagli, shifting him to RB when defending. In Pirlo's case Alex Sandro performed this role on the left, or Danilo on the right. Ramsey joining the attack the most from midfield, basically making it a front 3.

The lineup was this:
First half:
Szczesny
Danilo - Bonucci - Chiellini
Cuadrado - Rabiot - McKennie - Ramsey - Alex Sandro
Kulusevski - Ronaldo

Second half:
Buffon
Danilo - Rugani - Demiral
Cuadrado - Bentancur - Arthur - Ramsey - Pellegrini
Costa - Pjaca -

With some other changes later.

Goals by Ronaldo, Ramsey, Pjaca, Portanova, Nicolussi

De Ligt, Dybala and Bernardeschi were unavailable.

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Post by Arquitecto on Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:32 pm

@Robespierre wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:What confuses me more is how Suarez will pass a B1-B2 level test in Italiano given there's little to no indication that he speaks the language let alone at A1 level

I've known Spanish students to make Erasmus experience in Italy in my university career but yet they couldn't speak a word of Italian language
So it's clearly a fraud thing



Like Italians outside Spanish expats I am not proud of usually are poor representatives of the country. Example: The ones living or studying in UK.

They don't seem to be bothered in learning other languages, stark contrast to the ones living in Spain themselves. Anecdotal but my experience.


Suarez being from a lower class background and the tendencies of that class I cannot see bothered to work to pass the test let alone keep his fitness. 33 is not prime years but by no means old either so he has no excuse.


No chance now I see him coming to Juventus.
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Post by S on Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:07 pm

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Post by Casciavit on Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:10 am

So I had a theory earlier in this thread that Pirlo would be a Pep fanboy, but I just read his thesis and he is. His thesis topic was about how he saw football, and he's pretty much a word for word proponent of Pep's version of positional play. 2-3-5/3-2-5 attacking phase, maximum width on the pitch, the defensive 5 being responsible for the construction of play, high line and sweeper keeper, high pressing, 1v1 wingers, inside forwards if you have an overlapping fullback, players who move away from the ball and stay in their positions rather than moving toward the ball, occupation between the lines, max of 2 on a vertical line and 3 on a horizontal line, ball possession, automatized attacking routines, filling the penalty area with 3-4 players, finding the free man, technical midfield responsible for mostly risk-averse circulation with the attacking 5 responsible for the final actions, and more. If you've read any of Pep's books on him speaking about his tactics he says the same exact shit.

For someone who never played under him, he's spouting his same exact concepts. Xavi and Pirlo will be carrying on Cruyff's football. Tears in my eyes. Here's the link to his thesis for those interested: https://juvecanal.com/articles/my-football-by-andrea-pirlo/

^The most surprising thing to me is how it doesn't seem like he wants a regista in his team who can spray long balls, as he doesn't want to force verticality from deep, but rather build through slow structured attacks from one offensive line to the next. He wants a Busquets profile as a 6 rather than that of his own. I can see Arthur being a key cog for him.

Ultimately, what will matter is to see how good he is at applying his concepts out on the field though. I recall Sarri stating that Juve was so conditioned defending from deep and attacking the wide spaces that getting them to do the opposite (defend high, and attack narrow spaces) was difficult. If Pirlo can pull it off, Juve will be playing some of the best football in the world. No wonder Agnelli took a gamble on him.


Last edited by Casciavit on Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Casciavit on Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:33 am

Within a football of principles and spaces, it is still important being able to add plays and movements encoded in the last 30 meters to guarantee greater possibilities and safety for our players.

Play and movements thought and prepared trying to enhance ours features. However I believe that in the last 30 meters the creativity and the individual talent should be the master, with the players free to express themselves by looking for decisive bets.

The organization and the game structure with our principles will be thus of fundamental importance in allowing to reach the last 30 meters with players and positioning able to disorganize the opposing defense and thus favoring the decisive plays of our most important offensive players

Same thing Henry said about Pep in that Sky interview a few years ago. He's clearly Pirlo's biggest influence. From those who coached him, it seems to me he's taken the technical aspect from Carlo and combined them with the positional aspect from Conte. Although as I stated earlier him not being big on quick transitions was my biggest surprise. If we are using his thesis as an example and comparing him to coaches who also thought a similar way, I see his tenure going down like this:

-The players follow him and play the way he wants. This is the ideal situation for Juve. They'll be out there playing like City and will for sure win the title.

-The players struggle to adapt and he doesn't change his philosophy. You'll probably see lots of boring sideways passing. Classic tiki taka. Maybe their individual quality can get them a scudetto like they did for Sarri, but Inter could beat them to it.

-The players struggle to adapt and he tries to change his philosophy himself. Think Setien in his last months at Barca. This is worst case option for Juve and I would expect them to lose the title against Inter.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:33 am

@Casciavit wrote:
Within a football of principles and spaces, it is still important being able to add plays and movements encoded in the last 30 meters to guarantee greater possibilities and safety for our players.

Play and movements thought and prepared trying to enhance ours features. However I believe that in the last 30 meters the creativity and the individual talent should be the master, with the players free to express themselves by looking for decisive bets.

The organization and the game structure with our principles will be thus of fundamental importance in allowing to reach the last 30 meters with players and positioning able to disorganize the opposing defense and thus favoring the decisive plays of our most important offensive players

Same thing Henry said about Pep in that Sky interview a few years ago. He's clearly Pirlo's biggest influence. From those who coached him, it seems to me he's taken the technical aspect from Carlo and combined them with the positional aspect from Conte. Although as I stated earlier him not being big on quick transitions was my biggest surprise. If we are using his thesis as an example and comparing him to coaches who also thought a similar way, I see his tenure going down like this:

-The players follow him and play the way he wants. This is the ideal situation for Juve. They'll be out there playing like City and will for sure win the title.

-The players struggle to adapt and he doesn't change his philosophy. You'll probably see lots of boring sideways passing. Classic tiki taka. Maybe their individual quality can get them a scudetto like they did for Sarri, but Inter could beat them to it.

-The players struggle to adapt and he tries to change his philosophy himself. Think Setien in his last months at Barca. This is worst case option for Juve and I would expect them to lose the title against Inter.


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Post by Robespierre on Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:45 am

@Arquitecto wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:What confuses me more is how Suarez will pass a B1-B2 level test in Italiano given there's little to no indication that he speaks the language let alone at A1 level

I've known Spanish students to make Erasmus experience in Italy in my university career but yet they couldn't speak a word of Italian language
So it's clearly a fraud thing



Like Italians outside Spanish expats I am not proud of usually are poor representatives of the country. Example: The ones living or studying in UK.

They don't seem to be bothered in learning other languages, stark contrast to the ones living in Spain themselves. Anecdotal but my experience.


Suarez being from a lower class background and the tendencies of that class I cannot see bothered to work to pass the test let alone keep his fitness. 33 is not prime years but by no means old either so he has no excuse.


No chance now I see him coming to Juventus.


Anyway Italians aren't different about knowledge of other languages ( on the other hand Spaniards  are the closest people to Italians ? I say  yes definitely ) , for example I've read  Italians are on last place about knowldege of English language in Europe. Most of Italians are not  polyglots, but monoglots.
But at least Spanish language is very popular in the world.


As proved Suarez has passed exam because this B1 is fraud. But it's not enough because you can win everything but not the Italian burecracy. For once I love it Proud


Last edited by Robespierre on Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:54 am; edited 5 times in total
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Post by Robespierre on Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:49 am

15 mln for a player old 34 years is probably a record in the history
NO EXCUSES
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Post by rincon on Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:29 pm

I dont understand why Suarez can't know a B1 in Italian because some Spanish erasmus students don't, or because he grew up poor. These are some terrible takes.

He has been married to an Italian for 10 years. Maybe he learned her language? Maybe he was interested in learning a language and doesnt need an excuse?
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:37 pm

@rincon wrote:I dont understand why Suarez can't know a B1 in Italian because some Spanish erasmus students don't, or because he grew up poor. These are some terrible takes.

He has been married to an Italian for 10 years. Maybe he learned her language? Maybe he was interested in learning a language and doesnt need an excuse?


Is she that much of an Italian though, in the sense that she speaks Italian regularly or fluently? She has an Italian passport, so she is Italian, sure, but as far as I can see she's first and foremost Uruguayan, born there with her family moving to Catalonia in her teens.

Not sure where the Italy connection is, probably in the family's ancestry? Might it be that South Americans with Italian heritage get a passport issued in a way as the famous "Russlanddeutschen" get a German one, born and bred Kazakhians with German ancestors?
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Post by Robespierre on Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:38 pm

@rincon wrote:I dont understand why Suarez can't know a B1 in Italian because some Spanish erasmus students don't, or because he grew up poor. These are some terrible takes.

He has been married to an Italian for 10 years. Maybe he learned her language? Maybe he was interested in learning a language and doesnt need an excuse?


I don't understand what you mean tbh
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Post by Luca on Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:47 pm

Alex Sandro thigh injury, will miss Sunday.

Beginning of Pellegrini?

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Post by rincon on Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:50 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@rincon wrote:I dont understand why Suarez can't know a B1 in Italian because some Spanish erasmus students don't, or because he grew up poor. These are some terrible takes.

He has been married to an Italian for 10 years. Maybe he learned her language? Maybe he was interested in learning a language and doesnt need an excuse?


Is she that much of an Italian though, in the sense that she speaks Italian regularly or fluently? She has an Italian passport, so she is Italian, sure, but as far as I can see she's first and foremost Uruguayan, born there with her family moving to Catalonia in her teens.

Not sure where the Italy connection is, probably in the family's ancestry? Might it be that South Americans with Italian heritage get a passport issued in a way as the famous "Russlanddeutschen" get a German one, born and bred Kazakhians with German ancestors?

Who knows, maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. not about to dig into Suarez's wife personal history. Big leap to assume that its fraud and that Suarez can't have learned Italian though, particularly for the reasons given.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:53 pm

@rincon wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@rincon wrote:I dont understand why Suarez can't know a B1 in Italian because some Spanish erasmus students don't, or because he grew up poor. These are some terrible takes.

He has been married to an Italian for 10 years. Maybe he learned her language? Maybe he was interested in learning a language and doesnt need an excuse?


Is she that much of an Italian though, in the sense that she speaks Italian regularly or fluently? She has an Italian passport, so she is Italian, sure, but as far as I can see she's first and foremost Uruguayan, born there with her family moving to Catalonia in her teens.

Not sure where the Italy connection is, probably in the family's ancestry? Might it be that South Americans with Italian heritage get a passport issued in a way as the famous "Russlanddeutschen" get a German one, born and bred Kazakhians with German ancestors?

Who knows, maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. not about to dig into Suarez's wife personal history. Big leap to assume that its fraud and that Suarez can't have learned Italian though, particularly for the reasons given.


Well it's also a leap to claim that Suarez all of a sudden is learning the Italian language as to converse with his wife in a multilingual fashion, and not because he needs a move to a certain Serie A club who has a full non-EU roster urgently
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Post by Luca on Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:57 pm

Are you questioning Suarez’s intelligence, AND the integrity of the Italian legal system?

The test was only part of it, no one has confidence of him getting a passport by October 5, regardless. So it doesn’t really matter tbh.

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Post by rincon on Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:58 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@rincon wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:


Is she that much of an Italian though, in the sense that she speaks Italian regularly or fluently? She has an Italian passport, so she is Italian, sure, but as far as I can see she's first and foremost Uruguayan, born there with her family moving to Catalonia in her teens.

Not sure where the Italy connection is, probably in the family's ancestry? Might it be that South Americans with Italian heritage get a passport issued in a way as the famous "Russlanddeutschen" get a German one, born and bred Kazakhians with German ancestors?

Who knows, maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. not about to dig into Suarez's wife personal history. Big leap to assume that its fraud and that Suarez can't have learned Italian though, particularly for the reasons given.


Well it's also a leap to claim that Suarez all of a sudden is learning the Italian language as to converse with his wife in a multilingual fashion, and not because he needs a move to a certain Serie A club who has a full non-EU roster urgently


The claim is not that he started learning a month ago surely, but that only now needs the certificate for his Serie A move.

I have 0 language certificates, I imagine its the same for you and most here. If a job today required me to get B1 (or whatever) in one of the languages I speak, I'd go ahead and get that as well.
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Post by rincon on Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:00 pm

@Luca wrote:Are you questioning Suarez’s intelligence, AND the integrity of the Italian legal system?

The test was only part of it, no one has confidence of him getting a passport by October 5, regardless. So it doesn’t really matter tbh.

Yeah he isnt coming anyway as we got Dzeko. But to sustent that its fraud based on erasmus and poverty is a leap Laughing
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Post by Luca on Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:04 pm

Absolutely.

The real villain is this non-Eu rule. Is this just in Serie A? Feels like it’s just a Serie A thing.

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Post by Robespierre on Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:19 pm

Well exam is lasted just 30 minutes, I struggle to think it's something of " serious" .
But on the other hand  it 's  just a formality for starting the very important step : the Italian passport ( taking advantage of her wife's status, who has double passport . in Uruguay 50% are from Italian origins, simply).
This B1 is just a formal thing that is propaedeutic to this.
Here it begins the Italian burecracy, that it's famous for being the worst one in Europe ( just Greece can battle with this ) Italian burecracy presents times and costs extremely long, more that elsewhere, this 's reflected in every thing- and for staying about football, it's reason why it's so difficult to build a new stadium in Italy.

To make the idea about Italian burecracy linking to a situation of wife and husband, if you marry an Italian you've right to get citizienship, but it's hell of burecracy, you 'll shall wait months . but at least it's sure you' ll get it ( because you've right to have it ) and " at least it's not years , just many months "

I know a similar case after a woman got citizienship because of marriage after 2 years and 2 months. By law, after 700 days from the request, the government cannot refuse the request. But you have still  wait for official confirmation and it comes sometimes much later .  

Since right-wing governments under Berlusconi Italy has looked like reluctant  to integrate foreigners ( not a priority at all) , and the basic idea has not changed sadly.
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Post by Casciavit on Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:50 pm

Juventus: Szczesny; Danilo, Bonucci, Chiellini; Cuadrado, Ramsey, Rabiot, McKennie, Frabotta; Kulusevski, Cristiano Ronaldo

His debut lineup...
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:52 pm

@Casciavit wrote:Ramsey, Rabiot, McKennie, .

Well I sure nailed the midfield in my prediction :bow:

Can't wait
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:42 pm

LETS GOOO
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Post by Myesyats on Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:43 pm

so how is the shape?
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