Political Correctness, LGBTQ, #meToo and other related topics

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Post by Warrior Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:20 pm

The logical aspect is your age, ethnicity and gender are not meant as a choice. It is not social construct. Simply nowadays science allow to modify gender to a credible extent.

In fact i don't understand why T is associated with LGB which are a sexual preference, where there can be nuances.

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Post by Babun Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:40 pm

@Myesyats wrote:An anti-gay Hungarian politician has resigned after being caught by the police fleeing a 25-man orgy through a window

https://www.businessinsider.com/hungarian-mep-resigns-breaking-covid-rules-
gay-orgy-brussels-2020-12?IR=T


He was the driving force behind 'protecting the institution of marriage as the union of a man and a woman'.


Article of the year rofl

Hilarious, so many prejudices proven right Laughing
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">If any man can be acknowledged as a woman (or vice versa) simply by announcing they are, is there any LOGICAL reason why they can't change their age or race?<br /><br />I have never heard a satisfactory, coherent answer to this question...<br /><br />If I can be a woman, why can't I be 25 and white?</p>— ZUBY: (@ZubyMusic) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZubyMusic/status/1334435312806801409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 3, 2020</a></blockquote>  

discuss, open-mindedly


1. Date of birth of different humans is really just a number and not down to social construction in the way both gender and race are, so it's kind of silly to use it as a comparison. Not to say, timekeeping, clocks, calendar etc aren't socially constructed, they are, but a date is more indiscriminate than the designation of a gender.

2. In terms of certain legal things tied to age, like drinking, driving, voting, eligibility to office, benefits, deadlines etc, these are all political decisions and as such of course changeable already

2. In face of ageism, of course, which might be a socially constructed form of oppression based on the number that is age, there might be deliberations about who tells whom what age they are

3. In reality, people lie about their age all the time, which funnily enough is often tied to sexism, if you think of the vast percentage of actresses and models who lie about their age or whose agencies tell them to lie about their age as a matter of routine

4. The question of race is a more interesting one. But here I think there might be a mix-up of different levels.

5. First of all, without any doubt, the basics of every discussion about race should be that the category "race" is not a biological one, but socially contsructed and CLAIMING to be biological. It's pseudo-biological and pseudo-scientific, and as such highly problematic and very dangerous as it's an imposter of a category which assumes power that it should not have, and that the history of its usage clearly shows it should not have.
I don't quite understand why in countries like the US the use of word and this category continues to be so uncontested, in terms of language and official terminology.
In German language etiquette, political correctness and also official, legal language, the word "Rasse" is an absolute no-go, due to the Nazi crimes committed with deep intrication to the word and concept.
I'm curious to see whether the ongoing struggle against racism and the intensified scrutiny of the countries past, slavery and such, will lead also for example the US to problematize the word and concept itself, not just its ramifications in society. (of course, the discussion might long be there, I'm not actually up to date on anything)

6. Yes, there are different skin colors, yes, people have different physical traits, different ethnic origins, but everything about it is more complicated, none of it justifies a broad separation in white and black, or white and brown, least of all a separation that claims to be a biological category, as we philosophically have come to regard "scientific" categories as essentially, ontologically true, which is a whole other topic of course.

7, Race is socially constructed, and that's why the frequent 'sophist' injections into the discourse a la "Why can't I?"  or "If black people can call themselves the N-word why can't I", or in this case "If a woman can be a man, why can' a white man be black?", are in danger of denying the factual, undeniable reality and historical weight of socially contructed concepts. They are usually frivolous, and made in bad faith.
The social construction of race has engendered centuries, millenia of actual, factual societal realities, which usually are presenting themselves as crass expoitations and oppressions, and are tied to economic exploitation and our notions of personal worth, labor, beauty, the very definition of what we consider human beings, citizens worthy of rights, etc and so forth

8. So it's just not something to make light of.
But should it be something that defines people? Shouldn't people who experience themselves affected negatively on a fundamental level by being labeled in the category "race", who are victimized by it, have the right to shake it off, in a way somehwat similar to people who feel born a different gender? Interesting, complicated question, one that I cannot answer. It would involve the discussion of how we qualify our categories. The word "black" is often used negatively, but instead of that forcing people to denying their "blackness", shouldn't it be positivized? Etc. pp..
What about, for example, Michael Jackson? Is that a positive, or a negative example? Honestly, tragic is the word that comes to mind.
I guess, the idealist answer would be to become more free-flowing, positive and permissive about everything, but we can't just ignore the weight of history on all things human. Honestly, I shouldn't probably even using the word "we", as it gives a false sense of uniformity of discourse and discoursive subjects.
Interesting book on that topic, Philip Roth's "The Human Stain". It's surely very problematic, but I thought it was pretty great nevertheless, and I would be interested to hear what @McLewis thinks of it, not sure if you read it (sorry that I would demand from you to be speaking as the black American but you're the only one I can ask right now).

9. Gender, I mean it's tricky, of course, there's also physical differences, duh. It's not absurd to make a simple distinction between man and woman, and humanity has done it.
I have a penis, for example, I swear I do, and my sexual partners have not, and they also have tits, and that's what I like about them, and that's pretty much the end of the story as far as my sexuality is concerned. On a physical level.

10. But then, where does the physical level start or end? How much of our desires are physical without impact of social contruction? Consider for example the fashions of body hair and their changes. Our generations is grossed out by female arm pit hair in a way that makes us consider it natural to be grossed out by it, when it's clearly not natural (it wasn't like that only decades ago), but connected to a complicated interplay constituting what we consider sexual and how we consider it gendered. So apparently tits, ass and pussy isn't really the end of the story as I claimed above, I also want my sexual partner to have no beard and to be identifiable as a woman in general. (For example I would have banged Ellen Paige gladly, given the highly improbable occasion, what an achievement that would have been, she's cute, smart, interesting, slightly boyish, but also seemed like a sexy girl, but now that would make me gay eh so I'm not sure how to entertain the thought. So maybe it's better for all involved if he grows a penis too)

11. That's why, while we have a rigid dichotomy of male and female, and it's basically the first thing we register about people we encounter, (not sure if before or after basic categorization in race?) and it's one of the most encompassing legal and societal distinctions made by and upon humans, and it makes sense of the surface and for most people's daily lives as, let's say the atomic model of physics does, but when you look closer none of it holds true as rigid, essentialist categories.
There's hermaphrodites in NATURE, there's homosexuality in NATURE, there's frankly all kind of weird stuff exploding the categories of M/F in nature. They might be a minority, but protection of minorities is a basic priciplie of modern human rights. Defenders of an all-encompassing male/female dichotomy can NOT claim to have nature on their side

12. Sexuality is often called a "spectrum", and while frankly I am confident with placing myself on decisively one side of the spectrum, and a majority of people would do too. what's the pressure in forcing other people to decide for one pole? Where does that come from? Because, honestly, all the anti-LGBT hysteria signals to me is that people are aware of the amount of social contruction involved in gender and are afraid of losing their privilege and their tools of oppression. Which apparently is what they are basing their sense of identity on, so fuck them.

Another point to add would be the socioethical value. We, homo sapiens, are tribal/herd animals. I think it's wrong to regard every choice of an individual and a minority as a closed entity which affects them only.
Which effects would those changes bring to the entire society short/long term, should be the question or how to accomodate those interests in a sense that no harm is done to anyone?

For example, the state invests here a lot to let children have a nice childhood, proper education and healthcare (Germany). Where does that money come from? From the taxes of the working people. Then a person wants to change gender because he/she feels it would be right. The process is irreversible, there might be lots of complications, no one knows whether the person will be able to seemlessly blend in into the working society afterwards. Is it conform with the needs of the society?
This generation, there're shitloads of egoists but the society we live in as a whole is a give and take matter (always has been in all ages). You're as much of an individual as a part of the community you live in. I welcome any progressive change which betters the society as a whole or doesn't affect it much in the process.

The gender topic is a personal matter. Most people discover their sexuality in their teens while they mature. Obviously, there should be more understanding from the society towards the deviations from the mainstream because:
1. They're mostly productive people who won't change their mindset anyways.
2. They don't cause harm to anyone.

Changing the language by refering to themselves as "they/them" is bullshit though.
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Post by Young Kaz Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:11 pm

Im not normally attracted to white women, but I did find her attractive in Juno. I hope HE finds peace.

I wonder what triggered this. Things we do in life, changes we make, are all triggered by external factors. Michael Jackson began bleaching his skin after his nose jobs, which were done because he felt he was ugly. Girls who were very ugly as kids at my school would put on a jumpsuit and become studs who could attract women as we reached adulthood. Nature vs Nurture.

Gender transition is very common in the Asian community in the male offspring of WMAF from what I have seen. I remember thinking this when talking with Bella(hope shes doing well Smile ) about her moms mental illness and how her filipino family always complimented things about her that wasnt related to being filipino(lighter skin, being taller, wider eyes). These are things which could make a woman stand out and be valuable, but in a nation where there is no shortage of white guys running around looking for sexual access, would not exactly set a lighter asian(which a hapa male is) apart.

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Post by Arquitecto Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:47 pm

Fact of the matter is race does have significance but for the ones who study anthropology and or genetic studies. Indeed racial differences do exist. But should they be talked about as much as people say? Or put weight on? Things such as the obvious black stereotype on their ability to jump to caucasian brain aptitude etc?

Absolutely not.


Truth is differences exist but they are so minute they are irrelevant. A lot of us Europeans have less than 3% Neanderthal gene in us thus the uninformed would assume we will naturally display their traits. Other examples of other variables can be named to other races too, but from a genetic point of view those differences are more minute than even the percentages state, since little metric exists how to acutely state them on paper.


The differences that can be spoken about are the differences between Sapiens to Ergaster to Erectus. Beyond that the difference of aptitude regarding genetic differences, nurture and general genealogy to which once again, have nothing to do with race.

Sex based differences are a different story of course as the obvious physical differences in male and female differences but in terms of mental acuity to simply put, on a larger sample size the genders are shown to have their own advantages and disadvantages but not based on quantification but programming but once again, if a sample size is distributed too large, once again they are irrelevant. Thus micro sampling in a more controlled group would fruit better results.


Zubi above provides an interesting question but it lacks any nuance as one must understand he is part of a group that splits such differences far too binary than one may think.

Age is not a construct for they are purely biological whether we mention the telomeres or all the factors that contribute to age. Where age is made a stupid argument is:

"I have turned thirty therefore multiple processes in my body are now slower, degrading and just less functional" but we have seen countless examples of women in their 40s who are more (performance-based) functional than a woman in her prime to someone such as Cristiano Ronaldo. Fact is most of such differences are genetic and many do not want to admit that but as someone above said age is part of the passage of time thus the question itself is irrelevant.


Problem with naysayers of such choices as Page have made, is that they use their preferences to spread out as how society should be. If they prefer a woman as feminine therefore they believe all should be feminine thus the same goes for men.


The criticism of Harry Styles wearing a woman's dress not seen as "manly" itself was poorly given. What is manly as it is if not a social construct? Does it personally affect you? Does it threaten you? If so, then why?


Many men exist who complain about women, to how they should be, from their methods of earning money, to how they act to what they are but one must also look at what is behind their complaints. Usually is it rejection and usually the ones who rate a stunning woman as a 5.677/10. Ask them the question "Would she really go for you?" So thus unless you are intent in changing society to your view even if it is needlessly binary, then your opinions mean nothing on such matters unless you intend the same for your children, to which is a different matter.


Learning the grey in between the such opposite poles is where true thought is processed and our RedOranje is initially who taught me that back when I spewed thoughts not crafted from really anything until I questioned my own ignorance, my own process of thought.


Excuse me for going off topic.


Now, if we are referring to pronouns to things such as that, those are the types who influences the more ignorant to assume most "screeching feminazi's who are offended and pronouns etc" are thus all of them. By that logic all muslims are extremist fundamentalists and all homosexuals are flamboyant obnoxious James Charles types. Point of this that paying attention to the extreme examples are irrelevant and do not represent the larger group as a whole.


So even if such anomalies were the majority, be it transexuals, hermaphrodites, homosexuals and or someone who is black or brown;

If it bothers you as to what they are, how they are, and unless they are not causing you inconvenience or a stark change in your life or societal processes.....Then wtf are you complaining about?


If so, then questions should be raised on your own life.
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:54 pm

What Kaz speaks about is to simply put, the influence of what is a colonial complex.


Asia as a whole is quite backwards even if we are talking about brilliant societies such as Japan or South Korea (i.e NOT China).


This complex exists in South Asia as well thus the distribution and sale of fairness cream is worth its weight in gold.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:56 pm

@Pedram wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:  

discuss, open-mindedly


No because age and race are hard facts about your identity, sexuality however is a fluid social concept, you need time to figure out what you are comfortable with.


Race is every bit the social construct that gender is. Melanin content of your skin is not. I wouldn't call 'race' a hard fact.
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Post by Babun Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:17 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:Fact of the matter is race does have significance but for the ones who study anthropology and or genetic studies. Indeed racial differences do exist. But should they be talked about as much as people say? Or put weight on? Things such as the obvious black stereotype on their ability to jump to caucasian brain aptitude etc?

Absolutely not.
Human race matters for the anthropology very little because due to a genetical bottleneck some time ago all people around the world are strikingly similar on genetical level. It's possible your genetical makeup might be closer to a Chinese or an Indian than someone from your own place. The fact all people around the world can get Wuhan virus and become very sick is a testament to the lack of genetical variation in Homo Sapiens. The ones you mention (Homo Erectus etc.) have got deteriorated DNA sequences which can't be extracted. Neaderthals or denisovans are well known, for they ceased to exist recently (35000y ago). Homo Erectus can't be classified as a race, more like one of them ancestors.

Source:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Homo-sapiens/Modern-populations#ref1268234

The phenotypes we see (what people look on the outside, physical build etc.) are mostly geographical adaptions to the climate and conditions in place. The only people who can do something useful with the "race" term would be:
1. Textil industry Very Happy They need to adapt their cuts and outlook of their clothes to the general population of an area.
2. Forensics, they can tell the origin of a skull or a bone by measurements on the skull and the bone density but what they do isn't racial profiling, they look for the geographical adaptations (phenotype) to reconstruct the missing info.
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Belonging to a phenotype doesn't make you smarter, stronger or better (the way racists argue). It shows the accumulated adaptations over time for the region people originally derived from.
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:25 pm

Very informative post Babun and the last part sums up the key part of my point. Such factors cannot be ignored.
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:58 pm

Yeah a fun fact I like to whip up is, when you're talking to people bringing genetics into human ethnicities, it is worth pointing out that the genetic marker for being lactose tolerant/intolerant is a far bigger indicator of genetic variation than skin colour, so a light-skinned Caucasian that can digest milk is genetically closer to a pitch-black sub-saharan African that can digest milk than both of them are to a neighbor who's lactose intolerant but looks the same as they do.

Race is idiotic. It exists as a social construct, and as such must be understood if you want to combat racism, but there is no such thing as human "races", from a biological point of view.
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Post by Young Kaz Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:00 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:What Kaz speaks about is to simply put, the influence of what is a colonial complex.


Asia as a whole is quite backwards even if we are talking about brilliant societies such as Japan or South Korea (i.e NOT China).


This complex exists in South Asia as well thus the distribution and sale of fairness cream is worth its weight in gold.



The only reason Japan and South Korea are considered great to you while China is not is also colonial complex. South Korea has the highest rate of Suicide on this earth. Japan is a nation in which you will be publicly ridiculed if you complain about Japanese women(many cases ethnic Okinawans) getting raped and abused by Europeans. Its NOT great. Its OWNED, and being owned makes an ethnic group great to colonizers. You cant just walk into China and do what you want with the people and women because they will stand up for themselves now, and that makes them not great in the eyes of people who want to do as they wish with them. They have pride in themselves. We have none.

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Post by Art Morte Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:29 pm

@Babun wrote:
Belonging to a phenotype doesn't make you smarter, stronger or better (the way racists argue). It shows the accumulated adaptations over time for the region people originally derived from.


I know people are going to take this as provocation coming from me, but what's the consensus on the "men's 100 meter dash" question? Wikipedia is telling me that between 1984 and 2016 all finalists in the 100 meter dash in the Olympics have been of African heritage. I'm talking about the suggestion that Africans are more physically gifted, true or not?
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Post by Babun Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:41 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
@Babun wrote:
Belonging to a phenotype doesn't make you smarter, stronger or better (the way racists argue). It shows the accumulated adaptations over time for the region people originally derived from.


I know people are going to take this as provocation coming from me, but what's the consensus on the "men's 100 meter dash" question? Wikipedia is telling me that between 1984 and 2016 all finalists in the 100 meter dash in the Olympics have been of African heritage. I'm talking about the suggestion that Africans are more physically gifted, true or not?

1. Africa is a continent. There is no THAT AFRICAN Laughing I know it might be hard to imagine but there you can find ALL phenotypes which exist on planet earth in a single place just with a darker skin colour because the continent in fact was our cradle of civilization. I advise any interested party to look into the history of Khoi and San people.
2. Not all Africans are gifted in 100m run, in fact almost all European countries would defeat most of the challengers from all of Africa (specially Etheopia, they're built for endurance) except for Kenia and Jamaica. People from Kenia and Jamaica would also defeat all other African countries. In those places a bias towards shitloads of fast twitch muscles in legs took place because people there had to run away for cover for some reason. All around the world, that many fast twitch muscles in legs would be a waste of energy (walking is more convenient and energy efficient).

Now, on the genetical level, you might find a very gifted physical phenotype in other places such as Europe for example. Chances they would think 100m run is their destiny and give 100% would be very slim compared to a Kenian or Jamaican who would actively try their chances due to knowing the chances for gold are indeed high in their population.

Prevalence and bottlenecking are also important. The trait of lots of fast twitch muscles is more prevalent in Jamaica and Kenya than all around the world. There'll be more people carrying those traits there, logically speaking.
Bottlenecking happens when through the natural selection after a migration certain features are lost in the process and aren't reintroduced with crossbreading from the outside again. Take for example slanted eyes and almost no eyelids in East Asian people. They were adaptations to the cold sibirian climate (ancestors of modern day East Asians). The climate was so harsh only those people survived. They went on to became asians. Certain phenotypes were lost and weren't reintroduced from Africa again, same story with Europe and any other place. The variation rule for Homo Sapiens is roughly: the further a country is from Africa the less genetical variation its population has got because lost genes weren't regularly reintroduced for another trial. Finns would be for example a population with very little genetical variation., for example.


Last edited by Babun on Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Young Kaz Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:55 pm

I think it depends on which things nations invest in. Japan got silver in the 4x100m relay in 2016 and nobody would ever mistake us for being fast. The nation invested heavily in it, and the results showed.

Jamaica takes pride in their sprinters
Kenya takes pride in their endurance running

thats why they chart. Same reason American women dominate in football, and why American men will too when the culture shows up.

Nurture beats nature 100% of the time.

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Post by Young Kaz Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:06 pm



Boling be smoking black kids down here. Hes from the south and grew up in the culture. He runs with BAD INTENTIONS the way we all do down here. Its just they always push white kids into certain sports/positions, and others into others. Its all environment.

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Post by El Gunner Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:03 am

thank you all for all the brilliant contributions :bow: Thumbs up
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT HERE!

only thing i'd add on is that i get the language frustration in terms of pronouns, but i also get the use for it. Language is a formative tool in our society that impacts our culture, ideologies and ultimately the way we interact with one another. Finding the extent and degrees to which language should be culturally policed and freed will always be the messy part. Hence, as to why we're having these arguments now by using language.
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Post by futbol Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:01 pm

@El Gunner wrote:  

discuss, open-mindedly

Scientifically a man can't be acknowledged as a woman, only as a trans-woman. What makes a man a man or a woman a woman is defined genetically by our chromosomes. Really simple. Anything else is socially constructed by humans or politically motivated.

Person x is a biological woman but wants to be called by "he" and follow the social norms and behaviour patterns that are attributed to men and have genital surgery? Well, it doesn't really hurt anyone so let's be kind to them and play along and call them however they wish if it makes them happy. No problem with that whatsoever.

They are still not suddenly men based on feelings. Like the earth is not flat just because some might be totally convinced and feel like it or a paranoid person isn't actually stalked by everyone just because he feels like it. Feelings aren't facts and if you are a narcissist and feel like it you are still not factually God.

I personally view it as a mental illness (which it officially was declared as until political motives lead to the WHO changing their definition) BUT it doesn't mean I would wish to treat trans people differently than any other humans. I don't care whether someone is gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans or whatever he wants to be. I recently watched a Q&A from a trans woman who participated in Germany's Next Topmodel Show in Germany. I felt really sorry for her when she explained how she was mobbed in her childhood and never really had friends and tried to buy them off with her lunch money. I have a lot of empathy for people like that and would absolutely raise my children to treat everyone equally.

But it also doesn't mean I have to follow along with the concepts of gender activists with their "people who menstruate" abominations and whatever nonsensical rules and concepts they make up as they go along.

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Post by Arquitecto Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:26 pm

@futbol wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:  

discuss, open-mindedly

Scientifically a man can't be acknowledged as a woman, only as a trans-woman. What makes a man a man or a woman a woman is defined genetically by our chromosomes. Really simple. Anything else is socially constructed by humans or politically motivated.


Person x is a biological woman but wants to be called by "he" and follow the social norms and behaviour patterns that are attributed to men and have genital surgery? Well, it doesn't really hurt anyone so let's be kind to them and play along and call them however they wish if it makes them happy. No problem with that whatsoever.

They are still not suddenly men based on feelings. Like the earth is not flat just because some might be totally convinced and feel like it or a paranoid person isn't actually stalked by everyone just because he feels like it. Feelings aren't facts and if you are a narcissist and feel like it you are still not factually God.

I personally view it as a mental illness (which it officially was declared as until political motives lead to the WHO changing their definition) BUT it doesn't mean I would wish to treat trans people differently than any other humans. I don't care whether someone is gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans or whatever he wants to be. I recently watched a Q&A from a trans woman who participated in Germany's Next Topmodel Show in Germany. I felt really sorry for her when she explained how she was mobbed in her childhood and never really had friends and tried to buy them off with her lunch money. I have a lot of empathy for people like that and would absolutely raise my children to treat everyone equally.

But it also doesn't mean I have to follow along with the concepts of gender activists with their "people who menstruate" abominations and whatever nonsensical rules and concepts they make up as they go along.


100% agreed with the above highlighted.

I have become far more open minded in the last years or so but never will I accept this horseshit nor do I have to abide by it.


People indeed can and should be whatever they want to be but truth is we are not at that point where one can change their sex from inside out, but cosmetically.

What progress is accepting such anomalies and exceptions, not the over 50 genders one is expected to abide by along with the verbal nature of it.
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Post by rincon Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:05 pm

Its interesting something so complex being brushed off so decisively by wrongly attributing it to science.

Nope, scientifically, its not so clear cut. We create the definition of man and woman based on physiological markers. To define it only from your chromosomes is a way. Thay is entirely a choice though, so to say "scientifically a man can't be acknowledged as a woman" is wrong. Better to say "futbol and arquitecto can't acknowledge a man as a woman.

Scientifically, again, we cannot separate the consciousness from your physiology. If we think and feel a certain way it is certainly tied to the biochemistry in our bodies. A trans person's thought and feelings are not disconnected from their bodies, they are a direct consequence of their bodies. Where does consciousness start? If you have the answer to that question so conclusively then better to win the Nobel prize than to post on GL. So then is being a man defined by our reproductive system, by our chromosomes, or by our brain? Or maybe by a combination of all three. That you choose to define man and woman as XX or XY and leave it at that is a way of thinking, just like it is to define yourself closer to your brain than to your penis.

To separate the sense of self and your feelings from your body so as to say "he feels like a man, but his body is of a woman" is wrong. Our feelings are thoughts are direct consequences of our bodies. So to a trans person their body reflects on one hand: you are man (by having a penis) and on the other hand you are woman (by every stimuli in your brain). Is their body that of a man because they have a penis? Or is their body that of a woman because they have the mind of one?

The answer is much more complex and nuanced. Answers that we don't really have.

So these beliefs you have are preferences, not scientific facts. These definitions change with time because they are 100% given by us, shaped by the changing understanding of our bodies and by evolving societies.


Last edited by rincon on Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by danyjr Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:44 pm

Officially broken up with my girlfriend of 2+ years over an argument over Ellen Page's transition to become a "man". What a time to be alive.

Also loving this thread. A lot of good posts. GL :bow:
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Post by RealGunner Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:07 pm

@danyjr wrote:Officially broken up with my girlfriend of 2+ years over an argument over Ellen Page's transition to become a "man". What a time to be alive.

Also loving this thread. A lot of good posts. GL :bow:


what was your argument and what was hers?
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Post by Warrior Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:18 pm

While Rincon's post was interesting to read, i am still not convinced.

Those who are born with a penis, YES they are men, or males if you prefer scratch this was the nature lottery, chances were 1 out of 2 and a large majority will just abide by that without questioning (count me in this lot)

A minority feel like the genders are an abstract concept, the social expectations, the sexual experience or whatever else that comes with being a man is not good fit for them. So they might consider switching genders, and i'll politely thumbs up, but in reality they remain both a man and a trans-woman, it does not distort my views on the topic
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:47 pm

Rincon with a GOAT post. :bow:

@danyjr wrote:Officially broken up with my girlfriend of 2+ years over an argument over Ellen Page's transition to become a "man". What a time to be alive.

Also loving this thread. A lot of good posts. GL :bow:
RIP. Although, are you sure it wasn't because you're an unemployed man living off benefits on a diet consisting entirely of fish&chips?
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Post by Myesyats Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:20 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Rincon with a GOAT post. :bow:

@danyjr wrote:Officially broken up with my girlfriend of 2+ years over an argument over Ellen Page's transition to become a "man". What a time to be alive.

Also loving this thread. A lot of good posts. GL :bow:
Although, are you sure it wasn't because you're an unemployed man living off benefits on a diet consisting entirely of fish&chips?

was thinking that too hmm

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Post by Arquitecto Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:19 am

This thread is indeed littered with wonderful posts and Rincon's post to counter Futbol's and mine is very well a magnificent post, and one I want to find a little more time to counter as it deserves as such.
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Post by danyjr Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:25 am

@RealGunner wrote:
@danyjr wrote:Officially broken up with my girlfriend of 2+ years over an argument over Ellen Page's transition to become a "man". What a time to be alive.

Also loving this thread. A lot of good posts. GL :bow:


what was your argument and what was hers?
It was really an accumulation of our vastly different morals tbh. The case of a straw that broke the camel's back. While she made me rethink my ignorance and lack of empathy regarding homosexual/transgender/vegetarianism issues, I couldn't help but disagree with her on many of her strict ideas to that point that even talking about some issues became "unkind" and "immoral" to her.

Already on another gal's case though Laughing

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@danyjr wrote:Officially broken up with my girlfriend of 2+ years over an argument over Ellen Page's transition to become a "man". What a time to be alive.

Also loving this thread. A lot of good posts. GL :bow:
RIP. Although, are you sure it wasn't because you're an unemployed man living off benefits on a diet consisting entirely of fish&chips?
I met my new gal at a fish and chip shop. When she ordered that battered sausage with extra large chips and a deep fried Mars bar, I knew she was the one :wub:
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Post by El Gunner Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:29 am

rincon Thumbs up
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